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Boxing UnderGround >> Tunney was too weak to win today!


7/18/12 2:58 PM
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HULC
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A slightly controversial title i know, but i was looking at his pictures today and the man looks like he would be out muscled by a light middleweight. This is from facebook so i don't know if it will show up here (let me know) but this is Tunney just before the Dempsey fight:

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/523943_448944855139138_722542788_n.jpg

So was he really that much technically better than everyone else around at the time? Or was that deceptively spindly frame hiding heavyweight power?
7/18/12 6:41 PM
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buddie
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"Guys back then were stronger on average than guys today."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAl9XDCCCHQ

7:50 of he above
7/19/12 12:17 PM
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martinburke
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There are some studies that have found that, due to the abundance of estrogen introduced into the environment, the average male born post-1970 has about half the testosterone level of a man born 100 years ago.

Have you heard people talk about "dad strength" or "old man strength"? I think the test levels of previous generations has something to do with that.

Having a full tank of testosterone makes a huge difference. Ever notice how many threads on the OG are about testosterone therapy? Or how many guys are having trouble losing weight or performing sexually? WAY more prevalent now than in the past.

Don't let appearances fool you. If weigh-ins were still at 11am the same day as the fight, they'd all look like the old timers. Not only that, but present-day fighters would have to move up at least one traditional division.

If title fights went back to 15 rounds, heavyweights would shrink back to the same size as in the past. It's a very rare giant that has the stamina to last 15 rounds.
7/19/12 3:08 PM
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PoundforPound
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Tunney is underrated because he spent most of his career at light heavyweight. But skillwise he might be the #1 heavyweight ever...so smooth.

He was the only one to ever really trouble Harry Greb and he outclassed Dempsey pretty clearly in 2 fights. (The Long Count not withstanding.)
7/20/12 3:20 PM
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Chappie
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Edited: 07/21/12 7:24 PM
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Tunney is profoundly underrated by historians simply due to the fact that he doesn't seem to have been overly liked by the boxing writers of his era.It is pretty amazing that the guy managed to compete for the 13 years in the era in which he competed, losing only once to the great Harry Greb. Along the way Tunney managed beat fighters such as Tommy Loughran, Jack Dempsey, Harry Greb, Battling Levinsky, Georges Carpentier, Tommy GIbbins and New Orleans finest, Martin Burke.

By the way Martin, I knew from prior posts years ago, that you are related to Martin Burke and that your name sake had fought against Gene Tunney, but I had no clue until a few minutes ago, that the real Martin Burke had also been a former National AAU middleweight champion and had faced the likes of Greb, Meehan, Loughran, Fulton, Young Stribling, Godfrey, Chip, and Risko. Out of curiosity, did MB ever mention anything about fighting Stribling or Tommy Loughran or how their skills might have compared to Tunney's?
7/20/12 4:41 PM
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martinburke
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He had a ton of respect for EVERYONE he fought. Never heard him bad-mouth any fighter.

Managers and promoters were another matter, entirely.

He thought Tunney was just a little better than Loughran...Loughran a little slicker, but he said Tunney could hit pretty good when he wanted, and that was the difference. He said Loughran never ever sat down on his punches.

He said Stribling was a talented kid but his management had no juice outside of the south. My uncle underestimated Stribling the first time and over-estimated how much he personally had left in the tank BOTH times... said he shouldn't have been fighting good fighters by that point in his career.



He said Tunney was an okay guy when there were no reporters around, but he turned into a "pompous ass" as soon as somebody with a notepad showed up.

He thought that sparring so much with Dempsey took something from him.

7/20/12 9:42 PM
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Chappie
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Stribling is an interesting guy who has largely been forgotten with time. In spite of the fact that he died before he was 30, the guy had almost 300 fights and I believe, although I could be wrong on this, that he is second on the all-time knockout list behind only Archie Moore.
7/23/12 2:50 PM
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pharochuck
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HULC - A slightly controversial title i know, but i was looking at his pictures today and the man looks like he would be out muscled by a light middleweight. This is from facebook so i don't know if it will show up here (let me know) but this is Tunney just before the Dempsey fight:

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/523943_448944855139138_722542788_n.jpg

So was he really that much technically better than everyone else around at the time? Or was that deceptively spindly frame hiding heavyweight power?
his record pretty much speaks for itself. he was basically a 189lbs after training down to that weight and not touching weights. he was way more solid then he looked
 
7/23/12 3:46 PM
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martinburke
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Chappie - Stribling is an interesting guy who has largely been forgotten with time. In spite of the fact that he died before he was 30, the guy had almost 300 fights and I believe, although I could be wrong on this, that he is second on the all-time knockout list behind only Archie Moore.
\

I think researchers have found more of Sam Langford's fights, so now Stribling is 3rd all-time.

Still some pretty good company to be in.

The interesting thing about Stribling is that he was known more for his boxing ability rather than his punching ability. He was completely screwed in his fight against lt hvy champ Mike McTigue, and then it seems his crack at the heavyweight title just came too late in his career.


7/26/12 3:28 PM
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RAVUribe
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martinburke - There are some studies that have found that, due to the abundance of estrogen introduced into the environment, the average male born post-1970 has about half the testosterone level of a man born 100 years ago.

Have you heard people talk about "dad strength" or "old man strength"? I think the test levels of previous generations has something to do with that.

Having a full tank of testosterone makes a huge difference. Ever notice how many threads on the OG are about testosterone therapy? Or how many guys are having trouble losing weight or performing sexually? WAY more prevalent now than in the past.

Don't let appearances fool you. If weigh-ins were still at 11am the same day as the fight, they'd all look like the old timers. Not only that, but present-day fighters would have to move up at least one traditional division.

If title fights went back to 15 rounds, heavyweights would shrink back to the same size as in the past. It's a very rare giant that has the stamina to last 15 rounds.
Surprised no one replied about your comment. Your spot on bro!!! Everything you said I agree with especially the testosterone levels, people in general these days are lazy weak unmotivated human beings. It makes me sick to my stomach Phone Post
7/26/12 3:45 PM
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martinburke
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I think you're only the second person to respond to that, even I've posted it a number of times on huge, cantankerous threads on the OG.

It's sorta like farting at the dinner table; nobody wants to even admit it really happened.
7/26/12 3:58 PM
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pharochuck
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15 round fights for heavies would take all these guys weighing in the high 240's and get them down to 215-225
7/26/12 4:09 PM
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martinburke
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^^^ Yep, they'd look more like Jess Willard ...




...which is ironic, to say the least

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srrmj6eAFGc
7/26/12 5:06 PM
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buddie
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martinburke - I think you're only the second person to respond to that, even I've posted it a number of times on huge, cantankerous threads on the OG.

It's sorta like farting at the dinner table; nobody wants to even admit it really happened.


Didn't reply, but I def read your comment and thought about it a lot. It rings very true and for a lot of reasons.
10/5/12 1:24 AM
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Bench
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. Phone Post
10/9/12 7:20 AM
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It wasn't socially acceptable to admit impotence back in the day, and the average old guy is eating junk food too.

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