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S&C UnderGround >> Bodyweight Squats for high reps=worthless??


7/21/12 8:26 PM
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Bry Bry
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i was just listening to joe Rogans podcast and he was talking about leg strength and squats and that one doesnt necessarily have to squat big numbers to get strong legs..he said he has seen great results just doing bodyweight squats for high reps, 100-200 of them..he said he notices he has alot more explosion in his legs now...i remember reading on here that high rep bodyweight squats are a waste of time...maybe im wrong but wouldnt they at least build endurance, be great for cardio??

what kind of strength results would you see doing high rep squats??i mmight try them out tomorrow and see what happens..
7/21/12 9:22 PM
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Eel
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The results depend on your current strength levels. If doing a body weight squat represents 50% of your 1 rep max, you'll probably see results. So, 50% of your 1 RM plus 100 reps would probably lead to some strength and hypertrophy gains. Classic high volume training. Phone Post
7/22/12 12:05 AM
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Bry Bry
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^^aside from strength wouldnt it be a good cardio exercise??
7/22/12 12:19 AM
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Seul
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they do build great endurance/cardio, imo; for wrestling/judo they always made me "feel" stronger, but I think the added endurance (better wind and leg endurance) just kept my strength intact for a longer period of time.

I tried using the classic indian wrestling exercises (BW squats, hindu pushups, lots of bridging on my hands/neck, and gada swings) as the mainstay of my training for a while as one of several experiments with different training styles and had mixed results.

My endurance certainly improved a great deal, but I eventually phased it out in favor of spending the same amount of time/effort on drilling reps with my shot/sprawl, sitouts, bridging, etc and started getting much better results; I subjectively felt similar increases in endurance/conditioning with the added benefit of my technique getting a lot sharper/more explosive. All of my goals center on being a better grappler, so this is a better fit for me.

Despite working with light "loads" (no weight), I gained some good muscle out of it. I lost all of the flab I was carrying around and had my scale weight go up by about 5-10 pounds.

Some of the as the Gada, though (a heavy ball on the end of a stick, i made one by pouring cement in a basketball and using a post-hole digger handle), done properly the movement feels/affects our body similar to slegehammer work. Not go too far off topic, but I had massive increases in lat strength (I have a 20 lb. sledge that felt like a toy after a while, the gada was around 30 pounds with a 5-foot handle) and lots of mass gain on my lats and, surprisingly, my triceps.

Youtube "gada swings" to see the technique, it puts a lot of strain on your triceps; I found it to be awesome for mat strength and punching power (sledgehammer work is fantastic for building punching power, and this was like sledgehammer stuff on steroids), it was just easy to push too hard and get absurd muscle soreness.

I went too far with the BW squats and gada stuff on several occasions and couldn't roll normally due to extreme DOMS, so it was a little counter-productive.

I also found I lost more than a little bit fo strength when I went back to weights (I use sandbags) after pushing the BW stuff for a while, i had to scale back pretty significantly. This didnt mess me up on the mats (my mat strength has always far outpaced my mat endurance), but being able to lift heavy stuff helps a lot with my job.

I find working hard on mat drills (shots, sprawls, etc) and then doing a set or two of sandbag squats or cleans to be a better mix based on my personal goals.
7/22/12 6:51 AM
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Funaki Masakatsu #1
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Bodyweight squats were a big part of the legendary Lion's Den fight team back in the day. Shamrock made his guys do 500 squats in a row during the tryout. I've tried doing them for high reps and my legs always feel stronger after doing them. It's a hellacious workout though. Phone Post
7/22/12 8:42 AM
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Andy the man
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Agreed with the comments about giving you more "wind".

For me, i use them in a Super Set with Barbell Squats (ie: 12-18 Barbell Squats & 16-24 Bodyweight Squats). The sweat tends to POUR out of you after a handful of sets of these and my ROM seem's better as well.

I can definitely feel it in my legs afterwards.

I was actually doing them yesterday as it goes.
7/22/12 9:04 AM
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Breeze05
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Funaki Masakatsu #1 - Bodyweight squats were a big part of the legendary Lion's Den fight team back in the day. Shamrock made his guys do 500 squats in a row during the tryout. I've tried doing them for high reps and my legs always feel stronger after doing them. It's a hellacious workout though. Phone Post
Feeling strong & being strong are 2 different things. Were they actually stronger? If so how do you know? Phone Post
7/22/12 9:24 AM
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Funaki Masakatsu #1
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Breeze05 -
Funaki Masakatsu #1 - Bodyweight squats were a big part of the legendary Lion's Den fight team back in the day. Shamrock made his guys do 500 squats in a row during the tryout. I've tried doing them for high reps and my legs always feel stronger after doing them. It's a hellacious workout though. Phone Post
Feeling strong & being strong are 2 different things. Were they actually stronger? If so how do you know? Phone Post
They felt stronger because I felt more explosive when running and had more spring in my step when walking. It seems like my quad muscles were activated to a greater degree. Phone Post
7/22/12 10:47 AM
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Leigh
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Not great for strength. Good for muscle endurance though Phone Post
7/22/12 12:51 PM
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orcus
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They're cool if you want to be sore for days.
7/22/12 4:47 PM
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vermonter
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There are better workouts for strength.

There are better workouts for general cardiovascular endurance.

There are better workouts for explosiveness.

They may be good for local endurance, but is this something with a high benefit:cost? I doubt it... but maybe.
7/22/12 5:46 PM
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Jacks Wasted Life
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I found them useful for endurance and wind but also thought burpees worked much better for that purpose. Phone Post
7/23/12 12:26 PM
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disbeliever
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It sure makes getting back up from 50 break falls easier
7/26/12 2:49 PM
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Breeze05
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disbeliever - It sure makes getting back up from 50 break falls easier
Yes I agree. It does transition into functional movements. Phone Post
7/29/12 9:22 AM
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HULC
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Anecdotally i never found them useful.

I went through a period of doing high rep BW squats and beyond a certain point (building basic strength and strength endurance when coming back into training) they didn't improve my strength or my stamina. They bored me to tears when doing them though, and left me with hellish DOMS for days afterwards.

That's just me though, obviously others may react differently.
7/29/12 9:45 AM
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Andy the man
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I LOVE the DOMS that i get from a leg workout!

7/30/12 3:14 PM
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PoundforPound
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Catch wrestling legend Billy Robinson has his guys do high rep bodyweight squats, among other things. They are great for fighters imo.
7/30/12 6:01 PM
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Bry Bry
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well i was doing sets of 50 bodyweight squats the other day..i didnt feel winded but my quads started to get tired..i cant imagine doing sets of 2-300 like some...it would be boring as hell..

what are some good ways/exercises to increase my endurance??i train in my garage so...
7/31/12 6:02 AM
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CDarwin
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Could they be an alternative if your lower back i busted?

(I'm scared shitless of deadlifts and squats, unfortunately.) Phone Post
7/31/12 9:18 AM
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jdhawgs
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CDarwin - Could they be an alternative if your lower back i busted?<br><br>(I'm scared shitless of deadlifts and squats, unfortunately.) <img src="/images/phone/droid.png" alt="Phone Post" border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;"/>



You could start with body weight, then slowly add weight.
Just be smart and listen to your body.
7/31/12 9:23 AM
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jdhawgs
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Bry Bry - well i was doing sets of 50 bodyweight squats the other day..i didnt feel winded but my quads started to get tired..i cant imagine doing sets of 2-300 like some...it would be boring as hell..

what are some good ways/exercises to increase my endurance??i train in my garage so...



Check out this thread at 8 weeks out.

http://www.8weeksout.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1302

There is a lot of good information on this site.

7/31/12 10:56 AM
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Adventure Runner
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"Could they be an alternative if your lower back i busted?

(I'm scared shitless of deadlifts and squats, unfortunately.)"

You could go the gymnastics route for progressions.

Deck squat > deck squat into box jump for height > deck squat into jump over box for height and distance > Weighted deck squat > Weighted deck squat into box jump for height > Weighted deck squat into jump over box for height and distance > single leg squat > SLS into box jump > SLS into jump over box > weighted single leg squat > weighted SLS into box jump > weighted SLS into jump over box

When you can do a 3x15 of your current movement, move on to the next variation (or increase box height, jump distance, or weight). I wouldn't go too crazy on weight. Work up to weight vest just due to the shock to lower extremities when landing from a jump. Work up to a 20-25 lbs weight vest.
7/31/12 1:14 PM
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CDarwin
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^thanks!!!

I'll do that tomorrow. Phone Post
8/1/12 3:03 AM
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HULC
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Adventure Runner - You could go the gymnastics route for progressions.

Deck squat > deck squat into box jump for height > deck squat into jump over box for height and distance > Weighted deck squat > Weighted deck squat into box jump for height > Weighted deck squat into jump over box for height and distance > single leg squat > SLS into box jump > SLS into jump over box > weighted single leg squat > weighted SLS into box jump > weighted SLS into jump over box

When you can do a 3x15 of your current movement, move on to the next variation (or increase box height, jump distance, or weight).


If you don't mind me asking, where did you get this progression? And what's a deck squat?
8/1/12 3:10 AM
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CDarwin
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^ I had to google it, but this is what it seems to be:


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