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Canada UnderGround >> What is holding back our BJJ competitors?


7/24/12 4:13 PM
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Kashk
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In the past couple years Canadian BJJ competitors have made great strides in international competition at the Blue and Purple belt levels. Most recently Allison Tremblay gold medal at purple in this years IBJJF worlds, and she was far from alone when it came to Canadian's on the podium.

But when I looked to see where the medals were coming from the answer was only a handful of schools. This year probably saw more medalists form Canada than ever, with schools from the east providing roughly 90% of medals.

Of those medals 7 came from one school, 6 came from BTT Canada, and then 3 schools had one each.

But I know for a fact that way more Canadians could have made the podium, just based on local competition results.

What is going on here? Perhaps many other high level regular competitors simply do not care about international level competition? Maybe its the cost? Or is there another factor present that is also contributing to this?
7/27/12 6:15 PM
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Dougie
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 Most of the competitions are far away. Distance plays a huge factor. Cost increases with distance.
7/27/12 6:29 PM
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Kashk
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I would buy that for the recreational competitor, and for a few others. The thing is that a fair number of Canadians are competing abroad, and when you look at who, the socio-economic factor does not appear to be a significant road block.

the culprit is not access to the Worlds, as many are going, but only those from a handful of academy's appear to have success.

For sure many academy's love it when their competitors win but are not willing/able to invest in their most deserving competitors to help them reach beyond locals. But even with that competitors are finding their way to California in June.

7/27/12 8:10 PM
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JM
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Hard to invest that much money into travel and training when you are trying to :
A) pay for school
B) pay bills
C) take care of family
D) clear up debt
E) working many hours, and can't commit fully to training
F)trying to start life, and setup a future
G) any combination of the above

Ff you are interested in seeing more schools put out more world class competitors at high level competitions, then please be communal with your knowledge and offer advice.

Many of us have big dreams, but lack the hope of a realistic opportunity for anything other than once every 5 years. Please understand that not everyone has been given the same resources as others.
7/27/12 8:22 PM
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1armedScissor
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I'd wager that the schools that have the most success are larger schools that have the ability to and are likely following a model similar to Lloyd Irvin where they are essentially subsidizing a number of their athletes and providing them the opportunity to train more often than those from smaller academies who's training is limited.
7/27/12 11:28 PM
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JM
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Toronto Open is charging 100 bucks to enter. Will they be offering a free trip for winners to compete in the worlds/pans/etc?

That would really help Canadians to compete abroad.

Otherwise...that's $100 less that a person won't be able to use to travel.
7/28/12 3:50 PM
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Cory Dee
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Edited: 07/28/12 3:50 PM
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JM, if you are doing all of the things in your laundry list of excuses above, you are a hobbiest/recreational athlete and I don't believe this thread is aimed at you.

People are training 30+ hours a week and are taking this seriously, yet are not seeing the results they deserve, or do not show up at the big tournaments. We all know someone like this. That is what the thread is about.
7/28/12 5:50 PM
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Dougie
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Edited: 07/28/12 5:53 PM
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Cory Dee - your laundry list of excuses

 Wow, maybe I am reading this wrong but that seems like a jerk off statement. 

The question was, "What is holding back competitors?"

He gave you an answer, several actually. Obviously not the one you wanted to hear, but answers.
7/28/12 6:11 PM
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moemar
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gotta fold that laundry. Big Rig Phone Post
7/28/12 7:40 PM
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thats g
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Probably best answered by a black belt however, I think they're just not competitive anymore for a # of reasons.
Turned pro
Sore
Been there done that as a blue, purple, brown
Fear of exposure
Too far down the personal priority list
I think if you asked 5 different black belts why they don't go to the worlds you'd probably get 3 different answers.
Jmo
7/28/12 8:46 PM
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moemar
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thats g youve just give a grocery list of excuses. come on man. dummy up. Big Rig Phone Post
7/29/12 9:26 AM
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JM
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Corey Dee...

I guess what I'm saying is that only a few people make decent money at BJJ. Some hopeful competitors can't afford to be anything more than a hobbyist. If it were possible to give more opportunity to hopeful competitors, perhaps we would see more Canadians competing on big stages. Until then, a man's gotta eat...and BJJ ain't cheap.
7/29/12 6:21 PM
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vdog
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there is a lot of factors why people don't compete....at my old age I still like to compete and did so last year in Brazil as a BlackBelt to test my skill at my age and weight category..

To each is own...

vince
GB Niagara.
7/30/12 8:04 AM
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wiley
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Speaking only for myself. I once thought of competing at a big international tourney but factors and common sense kicked in:

1) Injury which stops me from working (who pays my bills/mortgage/feeds my kids)

2) I could use that money for retirement funds (investing)

3) Use the money instead for an extra mortgage payment.

4) Compete for the sake of saying I "won" when in a few yrs no one will even care or blink an eye at it. NO THANKS

5) Work commitments

6) Family commitments

7) Time off work, better spent with kids/wife.

Not every person aspires to win at the IBJJF level. At every club there are lots of guys who are awesome and would give anyone hell on the mats, yet they dont compete..

In my eyes the guys with wives/husbands/kids/pets/work/mortgage and still train consistent are the true champs/warriors/world champs...

7/30/12 9:38 AM
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Phil999
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"the culprit is not access to the Worlds, as many are going, but only those from a handful of academy's appear to have success."

Is this a subtle way of implying that some clubs are better than others?
7/30/12 12:21 PM
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trianglegrrl
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I wouldn't call it subtle.
7/30/12 1:25 PM
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P2
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Phil999 - "the culprit is not access to the Worlds, as many are going, but only those from a handful of academy's appear to have success."

Is this a subtle way of implying that some clubs are better than others?


Phill999 is absolutely correct that all schools are the best. EVERYBODY'S A WINNER!!!!!!
7/30/12 1:37 PM
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Claude Patrick
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people train wherever they feel best for them and thats fine..

BUT its silly to pretend for competitors all clubs are equal.

every academy has its own focus, to answer the question put forward i think the answer is lies in a few things

toronto has always been more a grappling city than BJJ .. even today people just like to get together in thier crews and roll around some.. BJJ the sportive aspect of it anyway has very specific point scoring system and strategy based on that. most people practicing locally are not familiar with them

and

ofcourse cost.. it aint cheap to compete

2- its not cheap to travel
7/30/12 7:04 PM
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Kashk
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I was interested to see what people came up with. This is something I have put serious though into for a long time, and finding solutions to it is an ongoing process at Toronto BJJ.

For those with serious aspirations (eg Alessandro and Jhalan) finances will not hold them back, for someone more recreational like myself I could see that as being a factor.

So far the best explanation appears to be cultural and educational.

Many competitive students are not being educated about the history of the sport, and its greatest competitions.

That is why many competitors locally have no idea why people are travelling from far and wide to compete at the Toronto Open, and are missing an opportunity to be a part of an event that if supported locally, will attract high level international competition for years to come.

There are those that want to see the sport grow, and realize that IBJJF tournaments do not harm local tournaments because they bring many competitors to Ontario who otherwise would never have competed here.

I have no financial stake in the IBJJF tournament being held here. In fact by not holding the Copa Ontario or Toronto Jiu-Jitsu Classic I have by default stepped aside in favor of the IBJJF event. Although I do believe that all academy's will benefit form having international events here. But more importantly if you want to be successfully at Worlds, competing in IBJJF events prior to it is a very good idea.

Cheers,

Josh
7/31/12 11:38 AM
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Mark Stables
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In fact by not holding the Copa Ontario or Toronto Jiu-Jitsu Classic I have by default stepped aside in favor of the IBJJF event.

You have stated emphatically in previous posts that you had no part in the organization, or financial benefit from these tournaments. Now you are trying to convince people of your magnanimity in "stepping aside" in favour of the IBJJF because you believe "all academy's will benefit.
WOW
8/1/12 2:56 AM
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Kashk
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Mark in 2009 I did not stand to make any money from the Toronto Jiu-Jitsu Classic. So what I posted about that tournament in 2009 is and will always be true.

In 2010 and 2011 I did have a stake.

Also it would be appreciated if you would quit trying to make me out to be this 100% altruistic guy who does nothing but try to help others (it is ruining my rep as a ruthless businessman). I used words like "by default" and "although" to make it clear that I was not making any such claim.

For those who like to compete and want to one day make the podium at Worlds competing in IBJJF tournaments such as the Toronto Open will prove beneficial. For those that simply love the sport and want to see the level grow, it is also a good idea to support IBJJF events.


8/1/12 10:27 PM
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Mark Stables
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Nobody who has ever had dealings with you, would use the word Altruistic to describe you.
Your "reputation" is something that will follow you like a maloderous stool for the rest of your days.
have a nice day.
8/2/12 12:59 PM
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Phil999
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trianglegrrl - I wouldn't call it subtle.


Subtle enough for many I guess.

"Of those medals 7 came from one school".

8/2/12 8:08 PM
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Claude Patrick
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I don't get it.if your a competition in the sport wouldn't you want to emulate and out do what the most successful club or group was doing instead try to poke fun at being successful. Josh is a dick a good percent of the time no doubt but he ain't the force of evil some would paint him to be:)
8/2/12 10:46 PM
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Jorge Britto
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 Claude ....In Brazil we have a name for that .......
I will tell you at the gym lol

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