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Judo/Sambo UnderGround >> opinion: more groundwork needed in olympic judo


11/27/12 3:25 PM
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Wasa-B
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keseki - Koreans have a great sense of humor and like to pull the legs of foreigners. Maybe that's what he was doing.

But then again, Koreans are a very clever and resourceful people. If anyone can find a way to win more Olympic and World medals in a game of throwing by training throwing less, Koreans are the ones who will do it.

Maybe.

Or maybe not.

"The idea that many top nations and clubs train a lot of newaza even though the majority of judo contests are won with tachiwaza is not a new phenomena or a strange one."
11/27/12 11:19 PM
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keseki
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It's a free country (well, sort of). Do and believe what you want.

The thread topic was "opinion: more groundwork needed in olympic judo"

My opinion is "less or none at all". Because I want to see judokas do what they do best, not what they don't do well.


11/27/12 11:23 PM
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Wasa-B
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Kickboxers are best at kicking...
11/28/12 7:06 AM
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judoblackbelt
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Keseji, World Class judokas are the best at transitioning from standup to ground work. Not every throw is an ippon. The ground work happens from a dynamic situation not from pulling guard or walking around holding eachother bent over until someone pulls guard. You cannot isolate judo groundwork by itself since it is a continuation of the throw in most cases.
11/28/12 3:42 PM
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FOX Force Five
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I train under John Cottis - 6 Dan.

He's trained various Olympians etc, he's regime is 50% newaza to standing.

As the post above states, in Judo it's all about the slick transition. You don't have time to pause or consider your options - you need to drill untill it's a reaction.
11/28/12 9:27 PM
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keseki
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I definitely agree about the transit to ground. That would be wonderful if it happened. That is the way it should be, according to Kodokan. But it rarely happens.

If people are trying to integrate high level ground with their outstanding stand up, that is fantastic. Judging by the last Olympic results however, I don't see it yet.

In any case judo ground will have to be fast. So the topic is more or less ground, or the same? My opinion is, if judokas get better at transiting to ground, than the current amount is still too much, but as it is, the current amount is too much. More ground time will alienate viewers which in turn will jeopardize judo's place in the Olympics. But I believe the Olympics has damaged judo so I would be quite happy if judo was replaced by darts in the next Olympics.

By the way, if international competition teams are training 50% ground, why aren't people winning matches on the ground?
Is there some other indirect purpose in the ground training? Like spiritual development, or aerobic conditioning? Because it isn't paying off in medals as far as I can see.

Relevant to that: www.global-training-report.com/alves





11/29/12 6:43 AM
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judoblackbelt
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keseki, we are tring to be patient with you with your circling questions. The Olympics are different. This is every 4 years so the best are trying not to loose when they know the match will be close. Fighting 5/6 opponents in one day is physically gruelling so they have to conserve some energy at times and not pursuing grounwork is one of them or defensive position to avoid ground ork is another. You can win in standup by making your opponent appear defensive and accumulating shito's(penalties. This was a priimary tactic at the Olympics. If you watch many world class matches you will see the transition from throws to ground work. They arn't winning on the ground if the opponent is defensive and can break the continution of the ground work to get a stoppage and restart standup. I can tell by your question you don't understand the judo fight game strategy's.
11/29/12 4:40 PM
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Wasa-B
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"By the way, if international competition teams are training 50% ground, why aren't people winning matches on the ground?"

Cause they dont get enough time to work there

"So the topic is more or less ground, or the same?"

More. Same is ok. Less is even more watered down than it is. I like the old days when you had more time to work the ground.
11/30/12 4:40 AM
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keseki
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I appreciate your patience. You want more ground time. That was clear from the start. For me, I will watch judo to see throwing and I'll watch BJJ to see ground. You can enjoy your constitutional right to train and watch as you prefer.

I actually believe that would be a good thing. Judo will get cut from the Olympics for being too much like wrestling and will then go back to being what it was supposed to be in the first place. Judokas can then work on their ground game and enter BJJ competitions. A few have done that and have been successful.

That is my opinion in response to the thread topic. I don't think that I have anything more to add.



11/30/12 10:04 PM
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Wasa-B
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Its not like i prefer watching newaza to tachiwaza in judo, quite the contrary but i more a believer in being a complete grappler. Plus, there is already super little time given for newaza in intl comp and its often not pursued at all so i say its already been minimized.

I dont think Judo will get cut either. Has there been any rumours or discussion of that at all? Its been there since 1964 and is probably practised more world wide than wrestling or just as much.
12/1/12 1:37 AM
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keseki
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Yes.


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