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Canada UnderGround >> Toronto International Open


8/5/12 7:45 AM
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totaldude
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The most well run tournament I've been to in Toronto BY FAR! I hope the OJA tournaments step up their games.
8/5/12 8:08 AM
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SPoulin
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I guess "on time" does count for something.
8/5/12 10:10 AM
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totaldude
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and most of the mats were running the entire time.
and for the most part the reffing was good.
decent gym with seating.
8/5/12 11:22 AM
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GringoBR
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totaldude , what exactly you saw at the Toronto Open that would you like to see at the OJA tournaments.
8/5/12 11:40 AM
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uberpinscher
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It was cool the whole time too not 100 degrees :) Phone Post
8/5/12 11:54 AM
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Kashk
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I think the OJA tournaments are running great, obviously the IBJJF has more experience and is a little smoother at things like ring co-ordination, gate set up, schedule. But you need to keep in mind this tournament had fewer than 300 competitors, which makes it a lot easier to run than say the Ontario Open with over 1000. I like Fernando's question because he wants to constantly improve things.

For me the biggest thing was only Brown belts or higher being allowed to referee. Ontario has grown so much that we now have he ability to provide this at competitions for the Juvenile and adult divisions.

I think everyone would like to see more black belts competing.

The battle of the brown belt Tom's at both weight and absolute highlighted the event and its future potential.

Cheers,

Josh

8/5/12 6:35 PM
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totaldude
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I haven't made it to an Ontario Open but have been to several other OJA tournaments over several years.

I agree with Josh that the refs should be all brown and black if possible. I know this doesn't mean there won't be mistakes but I think it would make the amount would be less.

The main problem I have seen is empty mats. It irks me to see more than half of the mats empty!

A suitable gym is the most important. I've been to tournaments way to large for the venue. I've been to tournaments in huge soccer places with no seating. It should be a comfortable environment for both competitors and spectators. There should be bleachers, there should be enough seating for the predicted number of athletes and spectators.

Don't get me wrong, I know it must be a huge task to organize and run a tournament. I thank you all for what you do, but I feel they could be better!
8/5/12 8:34 PM
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GringoBR
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totaldude:

You have no idea how many brown and black belts said no to be a referee at the Toronto Open, and to other OJA tournaments , would be nice if we had more referees that would like to work at the tournaments.

This is the only item I think we need to fix in the OJA tournaments. Maybe the timing to , we have a problem running a bit late because of the kids in the morning.

We will get them both fix fast, we are working on them.

Fernando
8/7/12 12:27 PM
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karmarep
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what do ref's get paid?
8/7/12 4:29 PM
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thats g
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different ref's different amounts.
8/14/12 2:38 AM
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bjjfighter19
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Karmarep.

are you interested in reffing ?
8/14/12 12:11 PM
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aguzzi
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I don't understand what the OJA has to do with the IBJJF Toronto tournament or why they have to raise their games because of another tournament.
The OJA runs great tournaments that pull together lots of people, and the tournaments are never a disaster.


As for referees I think this is a different argument...
I am a 5 year brown belt who attended the IBJJF 2007 Mundials referee Course as well as will be attending it again in 3 weeks when IBJJF comes back to Montreal. I have refereed at of of different tournaments.

I feel referees get paid too much. I should not be paid more to referee someone's tournament than I get paid to substitute a day in high school. Some referees get paid $20 a hour, some get paid $150 for the day, and many others get above that. NAGA Montreal paid out $400 to each referee and they had 12, that is a $4,800 expense in itself and they decided to not hire alternates on hand.


I would more than happy to referee at anyone's tournament in Ontario for the price of my bus ticket there from Montreal, it ranges from $50-$80. I do not referee for the money, I referee because I know the rules and think its my duty to step up.

I also want to add that I think many blues and purples are way overlooked. Take Max Mysura who is now a purple belt but without a doubt an amazing referee who everyone wants to have on their staff, he is not a brown or black belt so should we not allow someone like himself? Vitor Ramos and Michael Lapalme are not brown/black belts either, yet they both have been nailing it like pro referees lately.

I believe if you do not give referees chances then they will not be given the chance to get better as referees. A tournament in my opinion like Fernando mentioned should have as many referees on hand as possible because it can get quite messy after the day starts getting towards the evening.
8/14/12 12:30 PM
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1armedScissor
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To play devil's advocate here David, by saying that "you feel referees get paid to much, and that you'd do it simply for transportation costs, because you feel it's your duty to do so in order to propel the sport", you're immediately devaluing a source of income for some people who might be relying on it.

While your intention might be noble, it has a very crappy side effect.

What if people started teaching for free, just to help propel the sport further?

You're talking about people's lively hoods here.
8/14/12 1:47 PM
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aguzzi
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1armedScissor - To play devil's advocate here David, by saying that "you feel referees get paid to much, and that you'd do it simply for transportation costs, because you feel it's your duty to do so in order to propel the sport", you're immediately devaluing a source of income for some people who might be relying on it.

While your intention might be noble, it has a very crappy side effect.

What if people started teaching for free, just to help propel the sport further?

You're talking about people's lively hoods here.

Those were not my intentions to devalue anyone. I pay referees the same amount as other tournaments do both in amateur mma and grappling. They are needed and very important.

I simply did not realize that in Canada we had referees who were relying on this money, there are simply not enough tournaments a year to referee in Ontario for a referee to make a livelihood from it. This can not be compared to running a facility in which they are now the one putting up the cash.
8/14/12 1:48 PM
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aguzzi
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Edited: 08/14/12 1:49 PM
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It should also be noted that if you do not pay referees a fair amount, they might not even work at their fullest potential for you. Every tournament wants their referees to have access to food, drinks, and know at the end of the day they are making a fair amount based on the direction the tournament is trying to take in the long run.

Without referees, table workers, weigh in workers, entrance workers, the whole thing will collapse on itself. It is very easy to tip over.
8/14/12 1:54 PM
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1armedScissor
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Sometimes every little bit helps. Tuition, sponsorships, refereeing, private classes. It all adds up. I know that it's not your intention to devalue anyone, but it's devaluing them nonetheless.
8/14/12 1:57 PM
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aguzzi
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I am sorry if it was taken that way. I guess I just thought that when I gave pay money it was as a thank you for the time they put into supporting us that day. Like Fernando mentioned earlier, there are already enough slots empty for referees to fill if they want to step up and learn the role.

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