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S&C UnderGround >> Sprinting -tell me about it


8/6/12 2:11 PM
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shootfighterbull
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So ive started adding sprints to my routine. Today was the second week ive added it. Im doing 10 sets at 50 to 60 meters at full blast. Is there any advice you guys can give me? Pre during and post nutrition. Gains. Fat loss.

What is your experience with sprints?
Any comments appreciated. Phone Post
8/6/12 2:59 PM
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dizz
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 Sprinted in college. Brutal sport but it'll get you in pretty ridiculous shape

Good for keeping muscle but shredding fat

What kind of advice are you looking for?
8/6/12 3:10 PM
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shootfighterbull
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I'm lifting 3 times a week(compound lifts). Will sprinting once a week intrude on anything? Also, if once a week enough to see significant gains? How well does it build up leg strength? Will i see gains in squats? Phone Post
8/6/12 3:23 PM
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dizz
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 From personal experience, you're more likely to see gains in sprint speed from squats than the other way around (i.e. sprinting won't really help you better at squatting, but squatting will make you faster)

Sprinting once a week won't intrude on your lifting - I know Taku and a number of guys on here like to sprint in addition to their weightlifting

Once a week should be enough for gains. I'd probably do it once a week until your body is accustomed to it and see where you go from there. You can push it to 2x and see how your body responds...if you need more rest, just do it 1x.

I'd just be careful choosing the days you sprint - obviously don't want to do it after a heavy squat/DL day
8/6/12 11:32 PM
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12ealdeal
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In Phone Post
8/7/12 3:23 PM
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Taku
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Are you training for pure speed, or for conditioning?

If you want to train for speed, you must first look at the energy system that is being utilized.
Anaerobic Phosphagen (ATP-CP) Energy System
The immediate usable form of chemical energy for muscular activity is ATP (Adenosine Triphosphate). ATP is stored in a limited amount in the muscles and is depleted in 1 to 2 seconds. After the muscle stores of ATP are depleted the Anaerobic Phosphagen (ATP-CP) Energy System is need to provide energy.
Creatine Phosphate (CP) is an energy rich compound found in muscle cells. After high intensity exercise, creatine phosphate immediately restores ATP in the muscle without forming waste products (lactic acid). The amount of ATP that can be resynthesized from CP can last for 4 to 5 seconds. So, add that to the 1 to 2 seconds of original ATP stores within the muscle and you have about 5 to 7 seconds of ATP production from the ATP-CP Energy System.

Speed work is performed in the Anaerobic Phosphagen Energy System. This means that performing any thing longer than 7-8 seconds, you are training outside this energy system. In order to become more efficient and challenge this energy system, speed work must stay in within 2-8 seconds, which is approximately 20- 80 yards. Also, it takes your body about 3 minutes to fully restore depleted ATP stores. If you are running short sprints but are not allowing full recovery, you are not improving your pure speed.
Get Fast by Running Fast
Sprinting is a highly coordinated and intense activity. High intensity sprint work (moving the limbs at near peak velocity) involves recruiting specific groups of muscle fibers and improving the efficiency and firing patterns of those muscle fiber groups. This type of motor learning must be done at high speeds to properly develop the complex recruitment of muscle fiber needed to fire in a synchronized pattern. This process is also referred to as neuromuscular conditioning.
Simply put, the best way to improve top speed is to run at top speed. Now, if you are running repeat 200 meters as your speed workout, you are not only training outside the proper energy system, you are not conditioning your CNS with the proper movement pattern, and you are running at a much slower speed than your maximum velocity.


TAKU
 
8/7/12 6:45 PM
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12ealdeal
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Taku - Are you training for pure speed, or for conditioning?

If you want to train for speed, you must first look at the energy system that is being utilized.
Anaerobic Phosphagen (ATP-CP) Energy System
The immediate usable form of chemical energy for muscular activity is ATP (Adenosine Triphosphate). ATP is stored in a limited amount in the muscles and is depleted in 1 to 2 seconds. After the muscle stores of ATP are depleted the Anaerobic Phosphagen (ATP-CP) Energy System is need to provide energy.
Creatine Phosphate (CP) is an energy rich compound found in muscle cells. After high intensity exercise, creatine phosphate immediately restores ATP in the muscle without forming waste products (lactic acid). The amount of ATP that can be resynthesized from CP can last for 4 to 5 seconds. So, add that to the 1 to 2 seconds of original ATP stores within the muscle and you have about 5 to 7 seconds of ATP production from the ATP-CP Energy System.

Speed work is performed in the Anaerobic Phosphagen Energy System. This means that performing any thing longer than 7-8 seconds, you are training outside this energy system. In order to become more efficient and challenge this energy system, speed work must stay in within 2-8 seconds, which is approximately 20- 80 yards. Also, it takes your body about 3 minutes to fully restore depleted ATP stores. If you are running short sprints but are not allowing full recovery, you are not improving your pure speed.
Get Fast by Running Fast
Sprinting is a highly coordinated and intense activity. High intensity sprint work (moving the limbs at near peak velocity) involves recruiting specific groups of muscle fibers and improving the efficiency and firing patterns of those muscle fiber groups. This type of motor learning must be done at high speeds to properly develop the complex recruitment of muscle fiber needed to fire in a synchronized pattern. This process is also referred to as neuromuscular conditioning.
Simply put, the best way to improve top speed is to run at top speed. Now, if you are running repeat 200 meters as your speed workout, you are not only training outside the proper energy system, you are not conditioning your CNS with the proper movement pattern, and you are running at a much slower speed than your maximum velocity.


TAKU
 
Not that I have looked into it so I'll just ask it since you are a guru and you are here:


"could supplementing with creatine help a sprinter/runner?" Phone Post
8/7/12 11:10 PM
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Bull_in_chinashop
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 Charlie Francis.
8/8/12 11:18 AM
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Taku
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 12ed,

Yes, possibly.

BIC...Charlie Francis was the man!!

TAKU
8/8/12 10:12 PM
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DaddyO4
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I would suggest twice a week of strides of 75% before really cranking the sprints.Full out sprinting is brutal on the hammies.
8/8/12 10:25 PM
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shootfighterbull
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after both sprint exersizes, my legs are very sore. i'm going 100% for 10 reps, so next monday, i'm going to slow it down a bit and go for 75%, and work on form.

sound good?
8/9/12 7:39 PM
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shadallion
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I really recommend starting with the Sprint 8 protocol before doing 10x full-speed sprints, because of the aforementioned hamstring issues.

In Sprint 8, you run about 80 yards at increasing speed, and then walk back to recover,

1. 40% of your perceived maximum dead-sprint
2. 50%
3. 60%
4. 70%
5. 80%
6. 90%
7. 100% dead sprint
8. 100% dead sprint

I've done sprint work in the past and twice pulled a hammy. I've been doing this for several months and haven't had a problem.

In the past couple of sesssions I've actually started going 100% at step 5.

I just think that unless you're a very experienced sprinter, you're asking for trouble if you don't both stretch out AND do the progressive speed increases, in particular if you're over 30
8/10/12 12:53 AM
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Ashilles
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Great info Phone Post
8/12/12 6:44 AM
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Flying knee
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I do a similiar warmup to shadallion when I do sprints. But my hamstrings are never sore and my inner adductors are the muscles that kill me in the following days. Phone Post
8/12/12 11:39 AM
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ArthurKnoqOut
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 Taku, shot you over an email regarding sprints btw! 

But on top of what Taku said, I never understood where the whole 30 seconds sprint, 30-90 seconds rest came from...I usually go to the track, or the beach by the water (between the jetties is about 70 yards) and use that as an indication of distance traveled, with a heart rate monitor as well as a timer (in the same gadget) with me = crucial. 
8/14/12 1:50 AM
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12toSix
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Stretching is a must!!! Phone Post
8/14/12 3:55 AM
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KevinMcAllister
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8/14/12 3:00 PM
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shootfighterbull
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I just did sprints uphill today, and ive never felt so drained. I felt like puking. It was great! Phone Post
8/15/12 5:33 AM
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SmasherSnu
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8/15/12 11:56 AM
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The Sauce
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I used to fight amature thaiboxing and only my last 2 fights (13 total) I did sprints as part of training. I would jog for 20-25 mins, where I ran had a soccer field so I would slow walk the width of the goal post then sprint the length of the field. I did this till I couldn't run anymore (started out 2 lengths and before fight time it was 11-14 lengths over 6 weeks). I did this 4-6 times a week.

Once I started doing this I shredded fat quickly ( had it to lose) felt great and really noticed a difference in my whole game BUT I HAVE A THEORY WHY!!


I could be wrong but as a combat athlete you rarely get to operate at your 100% max besides the actual fight.. I don't mean really hard, I mean 100% max!
So when you just get to let yourself run at your 100% max effort, it brings out that inner animal...almost a primal like feeling! Plus if your training for a fight it's a good way to really push yourself and let go of some nervous/anxious/anger like energy which is essential for fighters IMO.


This is simply my 2 cents but nothing I read in a book or someone told me, I found out my self...... With the help of Khun Kao from the kickboxing forum. I took his advice and I have never felt more ready Pre fight and the constant sprinting really felt like a big part of that. Phone Post
8/15/12 12:09 PM
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disbeliever
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I only do uphill sprints now and love it. finding the right hill is crucial. Needs to be a good incline.
8/17/12 9:47 AM
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cfraze
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8/20/12 11:15 AM
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Dongbar
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8/20/12 3:06 PM
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SmasherSnu
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StoneHands - If you're actually sprinting, you will need to do some serious hamstring strength training as you work into it. Virtually without exception guys who lift are very quad dominant. Going from that directly into a legit sprint workout is a recipe for pulled or torn hams.

front squats, mang. and curls.
8/21/12 12:11 PM
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martinburke
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Body weight hamstring curls(also known as Harrop hamstring curls) were a huge help for me.

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