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S&C UnderGround >> Modified Version of 531 for Athletes


8/23/12 5:31 PM
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athsportsnutrition
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Im also trying to build muscle in the offseason as a goal so that may be part of the difference as well. Phone Post
8/23/12 5:39 PM
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athsportsnutrition
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(in reference to no accessory work) Phone Post
8/23/12 6:29 PM
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None So Blind
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athsportsnutrition -  @nonesoblind- yup squat once and deadlift once. Working out legs twice. Week and have good results doing so. Phone Post

How strong are the kids when you start?

I mean, Rippetoe and Starr and the like have advocated squatting 3x a week and deadlifting 3x every 2 weeks, at least until beginner progress is done (maybe squat/pull of 350 or so for 5 reps) - and even then, squatting remains at 3x a week and pulling goes to 1x a week.

Squatting once a week seems more maintenance level than strength improvement level, unless you're doing 20 rep breathing squats ;-)

While beginner progress may be only 4-6 months for most guys, Rip's and Starr's intermediate programs are designed to work for years, so even if these are college athletes who have been lifting for 8 years, they'd still be able to go this route in the off-season.
8/23/12 9:56 PM
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PolandsFinest
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8/24/12 12:16 AM
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HERTSWENIP
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None So Blind - 
athsportsnutrition -  @nonesoblind- yup squat once and deadlift once. Working out legs twice. Week and have good results doing so. Phone Post

How strong are the kids when you start?

I mean, Rippetoe and Starr and the like have advocated squatting 3x a week and deadlifting 3x every 2 weeks, at least until beginner progress is done (maybe squat/pull of 350 or so for 5 reps) - and even then, squatting remains at 3x a week and pulling goes to 1x a week.

Squatting once a week seems more maintenance level than strength improvement level, unless you're doing 20 rep breathing squats ;-)

While beginner progress may be only 4-6 months for most guys, Rip's and Starr's intermediate programs are designed to work for years, so even if these are college athletes who have been lifting for 8 years, they'd still be able to go this route in the off-season.

Louie Simmons has written about using a squat once/DL once per week training split before; his athletes made good gains on it, and I made great gains using it in the past. DL mondays, squat fridays.

8/24/12 12:18 AM
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HERTSWENIP
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Edited: 08/24/12 12:21 AM
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(I just took another look a the program posted on this thread; I think better progress could be made if there was an additional day between the deads/squats; 72hrs would work better than 48 IMO)

on a side note: I'm personally not keen on 5/3/1 for myself; my body for the most part generally does better with more frequent stimulation than once per week per muscle group.
8/24/12 1:59 AM
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athsportsnutrition
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None So Blind - 
athsportsnutrition -  @nonesoblind- yup squat once and deadlift once. Working out legs twice. Week and have good results doing so. Phone Post

How strong are the kids when you start?

I mean, Rippetoe and Starr and the like have advocated squatting 3x a week and deadlifting 3x every 2 weeks, at least until beginner progress is done (maybe squat/pull of 350 or so for 5 reps) - and even then, squatting remains at 3x a week and pulling goes to 1x a week.

Squatting once a week seems more maintenance level than strength improvement level, unless you're doing 20 rep breathing squats ;-)

While beginner progress may be only 4-6 months for most guys, Rip's and Starr's intermediate programs are designed to work for years, so even if these are college athletes who have been lifting for 8 years, they'd still be able to go this route in the off-season.

Most of the guys I train with are either collegiate or professional athletes that are pretty strong already. We've had good results lifting as such. I personally never recover enough if I squat heavy 3x a week. Westside Barbell advocate 1 ME day and 1 Dynamic day. I usually don't get in a dynamic day..
8/24/12 3:03 AM
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WillyMaunawili
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In Phone Post
8/24/12 3:20 AM
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HERTSWENIP
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Edited: 08/24/12 3:21 AM
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I recall reading many of the west side guys don't do dynamic days for their squat/dead, just bench. Likewise I recall wendler writing he did better without a dynamic bench day.
8/24/12 9:43 AM
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jeremy hamilton
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athsportsnutrition -  I find it hard to build real stength just two days a week. Thats good inseason but not if your goal is to build strength. Phone Post

I find it hard to believe that you can't build strength lifting 2x a week.

I built some good strength lifting 2x a week.

I know of others that do awesome lifting only 2x a week.

Powerlifter Eric Lillibridge lifts 2-3x a week and only squats and deadlifts every other week. (Week 1 Squat, Week 2 DL) He has an 850~ belt and wraps only squat and an 840 deadlift in the 275 weight class.

I like what Leigh wrote 100 times more than what you wrote out for your athletes. He didn't say that you have to lift low volume, it's better to do a few things well than many things poorly.
8/24/12 9:45 AM
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jeremy hamilton
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HERTSWENIP - I recall reading many of the west side guys don't do dynamic days for their squat/dead, just bench. Likewise I recall wendler writing he did better without a dynamic bench day.

They have them, but it looks nothing like it used to. When you're adding bands and chains to everything it all becomes max effort work in the end.
8/24/12 2:54 PM
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athsportsnutrition
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jeremy hamilton - 
athsportsnutrition -  I find it hard to build real stength just two days a week. Thats good inseason but not if your goal is to build strength. Phone Post

I find it hard to believe that you can't build strength lifting 2x a week.

I built some good strength lifting 2x a week.

I know of others that do awesome lifting only 2x a week.

Powerlifter Eric Lillibridge lifts 2-3x a week and only squats and deadlifts every other week. (Week 1 Squat, Week 2 DL) He has an 850~ belt and wraps only squat and an 840 deadlift in the 275 weight class.

I like what Leigh wrote 100 times more than what you wrote out for your athletes. He didn't say that you have to lift low volume, it's better to do a few things well than many things poorly.

@jeremy- You can build strength to a certain point. But you reach a limit without putting on size. If you want to get stronger, it's easier to put on size then strength. Put on size need volume. If purely just strength work you can do the main lifts. thats what they are for. eventually you'll reach a wall. I just googled leigh remedios, he is 145 pounds. He's training to be an MMA fighter not be a strong big athlete. This program is meant to build size and strength for athletes. He's gonna be doing exactly what he does, 2 workouts a week focus on strength, high intensity, low volume that gets him stronger without necessarily building muscle.


"I like what Leigh wrote 100 times more than what you wrote out for your athletes. He didn't say that you have to lift low volume, it's better to do a few things well than many things poorly." He's lifting high volume with those lifts? I wrote it out for myself and guys I train with. I don't get paid to train other athletes.

"I built some good strength lifting 2x a week.

I know of others that do awesome lifting only 2x a week." - Ofcourse there are 2x a week lifting plans but Im sure you'll hear them say that it's not ideal in the offseason when you are trying to build size and strength. I've already stated during season 1-2 sessions is good for maintaining/trying to get stronger but not ideal if your sole purpose is to get bigger.


8/24/12 2:55 PM
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athsportsnutrition
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HERTSWENIP - I recall reading many of the west side guys don't do dynamic days for their squat/dead, just bench. Likewise I recall wendler writing he did better without a dynamic bench day.

They started doing dynamic squats.
8/24/12 3:05 PM
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athsportsnutrition
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@jeremy, who said that doing 6 items in a training (finish in about an hour) is many things done poorly? If you can't train 6 items correctly, then maybe youre not training athletes?
8/24/12 3:08 PM
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athsportsnutrition
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@herts joedefranco likes to do plyo stuff in addition to dynamic squat stuff as well. I like plyo stuff too but this block is more strength/size goal. (I like training in blocks)

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