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S&C UnderGround >> ACL injuries...HELP!


8/24/12 1:54 AM
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12ealdeal
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FRAT

So last sunday I successfully completed my first Tough Mudder race. It was brutal. I have never put my body through such strain before. I was in a lot of pain afterwards (all lower body). Almost immediately, I couldnt really walk to my car. lol

Anyway I went home. I popped 400mg of advil afterwards (once every 4 hours), stretched and had a lot of water and went to bed.

I obviously anticipated the next few days would be a bit rough (outside of the fact I got all my wisdom teeth removed the next day/Monday).

I kid you not my wisdom teeth/face/jaw/mouth pretty much healed completely by Tuesday evening.

BUT TODA (friday)Y, my legs are still in plenty of pain. So ever since Monday I kicked my recovery up a notch. Since I have tylenol 3 for my wisdom teeth.

I have been taking 4 tylenol 3's twice daily (2 morning and 2night)
I now take 800 mg of advil once a day (mid day)
And I have been having hot bathes in epsom salts in evening.
I havent been moving much, as when I try to its pretty painful, So I mostly sit on my couch all day.

I AM improving over all as time goes on. But one thing is really, really, hurting...My left knee cap.

When I walk on it it feels as if there is a hose kinked inside of it, and when I walk on it, or bend it, that hose is bending, and the pressure builds, almost as if it is going to burst.

NOW.....I don't know much about ACL injuries as I have never had one. So my questions is.

Can you strain/sprain it, without "blowing" it?

If I blew my ACL...from what I hear I'd imagine that is something that would be really obvious right? Like I wouldn't be able to walk/move at all right?

Hopefully some of you can share your experience with me as I am sure some of you have had problems with your ACL.

Also wondering how long I should stay off it, how I should take care of it (ice? heat?).what i could do to rehabilitate it/strengthen it.

Thanks BROS
8/24/12 2:35 AM
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Leigh
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I don't know but I currently have an LCL injury which I think is similar (if not exactly what you have). Did a Google search and mine should heal with rest. So I'm swimming instead of running and its MUCH better after a couple of weeks.

I also did it running. Didn't feel it at the time, did MMA later but next morning had trouble standing up Phone Post
8/24/12 6:38 AM
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12ealdeal
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Leigh - I don't know but I currently have an LCL injury which I think is similar (if not exactly what you have). Did a Google search and mine should heal with rest. So I'm swimming instead of running and its MUCH better after a couple of weeks.

I also did it running. Didn't feel it at the time, did MMA later but next morning had trouble standing up Phone Post
Thanks. I have access to a pool, I shall use it.

When you say rest all you mean is stay off it physically right? Is there any supplementary thing you do? (ice, heat, advil, supplements for joints?) Phone Post
8/24/12 7:35 AM
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ArthurKnoqOut
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 first of, stop with the painkillers. Icing would have helped the first few days but at this point don't ice as liberally as you would from teh get go, and ice only when REALLY inflames. Pool might be a good idea but it depends on the level of damage because you sound like you're in a GREAT amount of pain so go see a chiropractor or a DPT (physical therapist) and have them evaluate you immediately
8/24/12 8:03 AM
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XmmaAddictX
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i agree with arthur. stop taking pain meds and get some orthopedic testing done. ask them about the "anterior drawer" and "posterior drawer" test. its an orthopedic test that checks the stability of the ACL.

IMO you do not have a "blown" ACL. If it were "blown" or ruptured or partially torn it would most likely have been coupled with a "popping" type of sound and your knee whould have almost instantaniously swelled up to the size of a soft ball and you would possibly be needing a walking aid like crutches or a cane for the first bit. you may have sprained your ACL, or one of the other cruciate ligaments of the knee (PCL, MCL, LCL). or it could just be a sprain to your patellar tendon. With ACL tears there is usually a significant amount of pain and point tenderness on the medial aspesct of your patella.

what is your range of motion like? do you have full range on both flexion and extention? have a chiro check your active, passive, and resisted range of motion. Complete ACL ruptures can take up to 9 months to heal with surgical intervention.

try supplimenting with fish oil, glucosamine, chondroitin. its like lubrication for your joints. it wont take the pain away or heal the injury much faster, but it is good for longevity and helps to keep cartilage strong thus assissting in preventing future issues.


8/24/12 8:19 AM
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XmmaAddictX
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if you are experiencing pain upon flexion and extension it will be difficult to strengthen however, calf raises, isometric contractions of your quadriceps, and simple balance exercises (wobble boards and bosu balls) will help to assist you in recovery. as time progresses try half squats or half lunges to see what your joint stability is like.

focus on achieving a full, pain free range of motion before getting into squats, lunges, or high impact activitites such as running.

take it easy and know your limits, its easy to become reinjured and get worse if you dont exercise properly and with caution.
8/24/12 9:09 AM
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Leigh
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Well wiki said rest, to me that means training around it ;)

I don't do swimming to help my knee, I do it for cardio cos I can't run.

Agree with the others that you've probably done the same as me and just need to rest it Phone Post
8/24/12 12:18 PM
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12ealdeal
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Thanks for all the info guys! Phone Post
8/24/12 12:25 PM
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12ealdeal
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Seriously. each of you has shared your own perspective/experience/expertise, so collectively when i apply all of this information it's extremely beneficial.

I'm going to go get it checked out.

Thanks again guys. Phone Post
8/24/12 1:40 PM
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ArthurKnoqOut
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 get well soon, sir!
8/24/12 2:38 PM
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dizz
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 FWIW, I had severe knee pain after a basketball injury 5 weeks ago and was also worried

I talked to a few friends who had blown their ACLs before and they all said that if I had torn it, I'd notice because the leg would buckle randomly and would seem very unstable

My pain went away after 3 weeks or so

Just a personal anecdote, I'd definitely still get it checked out
8/24/12 7:01 PM
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Leigh
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No worries, good to see you learned some manners ;) Phone Post
8/24/12 9:57 PM
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12ealdeal
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Leigh -  No worries, good to see you learned some manners ;) Phone Post

lol. yea I apologize. that was a while ago, and from what I remember I just let things outside of the OG play into it, and I turned into a temporary keyboard warrior/troll loser.
8/25/12 1:16 AM
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DMSO
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You are not really sounding like an ACL rupture/tear. Or a tear of either the collateral lateral ligaments (MCL/LCL)

In all honesty, it sounds like you have overworked your legs (by your own admission) and they are really sore afterwards. You may have torn a small piece of your meniscal cartilage, but even that it probably unlikely. You probably strained you legs overall, with poor tracking of your unconditioned quads and hamstrings and led to some inflammation due to poor tracking of your knee cap. Some swelling in the joint (which is very small) will decrease your range of motion and cause pain.

Does it hurt more climbing up or down stairs?
Pain on jumping?

ACL/PCL and MCL/LCL injuries typically occur with cutting/twisting actions and higher velocity movements. Rapid stops and starts.


Do you have any knee instability - kind of like an internal sense that your knee will completely give out from under you if you pivot the wrong way?
Does it lock in place or feel like you can't move it past a certain point?


My advice, take it if you want.
- don't go to a chiro to have him assess your range of motion, that has little diagnostic predictive value for ligament injuries
- go to a physio/ER doc/ortho and have them check all your collateral/cruciate ligaments with a good physical exam
RE = varus and valgus stress of collaterals, anterior/posterior drawer for the cruciate ligaments
- pivot shift test for ACL along with the lachmann test
and mcmurrays test for cartilage damage

-
8/25/12 11:28 AM
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12ealdeal
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DMSO - You are not really sounding like an ACL rupture/tear. Or a tear of either the collateral lateral ligaments (MCL/LCL)

In all honesty, it sounds like you have overworked your legs (by your own admission) and they are really sore afterwards. You may have torn a small piece of your meniscal cartilage, but even that it probably unlikely. You probably strained you legs overall, with poor tracking of your unconditioned quads and hamstrings and led to some inflammation due to poor tracking of your knee cap. Some swelling in the joint (which is very small) will decrease your range of motion and cause pain.

Does it hurt more climbing up or down stairs?
Pain on jumping?

ACL/PCL and MCL/LCL injuries typically occur with cutting/twisting actions and higher velocity movements. Rapid stops and starts.


Do you have any knee instability - kind of like an internal sense that your knee will completely give out from under you if you pivot the wrong way?
Does it lock in place or feel like you can't move it past a certain point?


My advice, take it if you want.
- don't go to a chiro to have him assess your range of motion, that has little diagnostic predictive value for ligament injuries
- go to a physio/ER doc/ortho and have them check all your collateral/cruciate ligaments with a good physical exam
RE = varus and valgus stress of collaterals, anterior/posterior drawer for the cruciate ligaments
- pivot shift test for ACL along with the lachmann test
and mcmurrays test for cartilage damage

-
Thanks. And you bring up a great point. One I failed to mention:

It doesn't hurt at all going up stairs!

But I completely struggle going down them.
I look like an elderly man. I have to grasp a stair handle and take baby steps for each step. Phone Post
8/26/12 8:29 PM
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ultimatestreetfighter
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jumpers knee IMO
8/26/12 9:12 PM
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12ealdeal
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I just came from the ER/walk in.

They did X-rays on my knees.

Said it was a "bilateral patella....... ........"?. And I didn't know what he was talking about. So he said "In other words, inflammation".

Told me to just "rest, no running, weights for two weeks". And gave me a prescription called "arthrotec".

Again, Thanks for all the help/info guys. Phone Post
8/27/12 4:57 PM
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12ealdeal
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Today I got a phone call from the hospital saying that a radiologist looked at my X-rays today (don't understand why this didn't happen yesterday).

Said I need to go back for an MRI.

The journey continues..... Phone Post
8/28/12 10:54 AM
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ArthurKnoqOut
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 bilateral patella chondromalacia or something else? because that's the most common alignment problem and inflammation is a syptom associated with it but that's more of a "chronic" condition. 

All the best!

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