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HolyGround >> When does faith become zeal? (FRAT warning)


8/24/12 6:26 PM
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Sweet Daddy Bear
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Edited: 08/24/12 6:26 PM
Member Since: 1/1/01
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Some background for those who don't know me. I'm a filthy atheist pig and have argued with pretty much every Christian/Muslim/Spiritual whatever you call yourself person when they make silly claims on the OG. I need logical arguments, and the notion of faith doesn't hold up in that regard for me. That being said, I want to be clear this is not a troll thread. I'm interested in an actual discussion about the topic, which is why I didn't put it on the OG.

There's a very long back story, but I'll try my best to cliff notes it for you.

*Have a friend since middle school who is religious.

*We grew up partying together, and he broke the rules better than anyone I knew.

*We were good friends for a long time, lost touch for a decade, then reconnected about 5 years ago.

*We try to make sure we stay connected by speaking on the phone every couple of months.

*Every time we speak, for the last 5 years, he ends the conversation trying to convert me. I never argued back, trying to be respectful of his beliefs.

*The last time we spoke, he mentioned I needed an education so I wasn't lost forever. I reminded him my dad's side of the family is Lutheran, and my mom's side is Catholic, and that I went to church every Sunday until I was 14.

*He goes off on a rant about every other religion, how stupid their traditions are, and how he can't believe people so close to god can get it so wrong.

*I point out the hypocrisy of what he's saying, and he turns it into World War 3.

*Having mentioned numerous times 'gods plan for everything', I told him he was a retard for worshiping something that planned abortion, murder, rape, molestation, war, disease, poverty, and the Jersey Shore, but "loves" us.

That pretty much ended the conversation, until last night I get a series of messages from him. Most of it was christian verbiage, but among the points he made were

1)Don't ask me to change who I am. I'm always going to preach the gospel.

2)He doesn't believe he has the ability to convert me, but Jesus died for him so he's not going to stop (it was really a weird argument)

3)Everyone who is christian is good, except catholics (mentioned specifically), and everyone else will burn.

But the point he made that blew my fucking mind was this quote, verbatim:"Jesus Christ is number one in my life, above my family, above everything else."

This man has two small children, but has more love for his idea of the afterlife than for what is sitting right there in front of him. It's it absolutely astounding to me that someone could get wrapped up so tight in their beliefs they could discount their own family for them.

Why can't some of the faithful just live a good life and do the best they can, and believe what they believe. Why do they have to take it so far to the extreme where their faith becomes zeal, and their message turns from love to hate? What makes that happen? I really truly don't understand the mind of a "true believer" who says Jesus Christ is number 1 in his life, but from everything I've read and know about Jesus, he would say "love your family, love your friends, love your neighbor. Don't worry about me."

Anyone have any insight as to how that happens? Are their people here who agree with his point of view? (Again, I'm not trying to pick a fight or goad anyone)

Sorry for the frat. Here's some Christian porn:

8/24/12 11:13 PM
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Grakman
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You'd have to ask him. Every person's ideas will be different and may not speak to the reason that your friend in particular feels that way.

Good luck.
8/25/12 3:51 PM
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JK3420
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I could be wrong, but I think I have an idea of where he is coming at you from.

When he says that God is number 1 in his life, he is dedicating his life to be a follower of Christ, as well as his teachings.

By being a "good" follower and living his life in the word, all of the other priorities are handled in a "Christian" manner.

Example~husbands love your wifes as Christ loved the Church.

Jesus loved the Church enough to die for it.

Hopefully this possibly sheds some light on your friend's mind set. Phone Post
8/25/12 6:00 PM
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Sweet Daddy Bear
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JK3420 -  I could be wrong, but I think I have an idea of where he is coming at you from.

When he says that God is number 1 in his life, he is dedicating his life to be a follower of Christ, as well as his teachings.

By being a "good" follower and living his life in the word, all of the other priorities are handled in a "Christian" manner.

Example~husbands love your wifes as Christ loved the Church.

Jesus loved the Church enough to die for it.

Hopefully this possibly sheds some light on your friend's mind set. Phone Post

He didn't say God was number 1, he said Jesus Christ. I forgot to mention above how I thought that also was a hypocritical because he went on a HUGE rant about how Catholics worship a person as if she was a god.

That being said, your take on his position makes more sense to me, and your implication could actually be what he was trying to convey. That's what struck me so weird about what he said: he's a wonderful dad and dotes on his kids constantly and brags them up. Most of our conversations revolve around the kids' lives.

It could be, however, he meant exactly what he said as he said it, too. His dad is super-ultra-mega religious, and believes women are to be subordinate as stated in the bible. My buddy could very well think the same way.

It's going to be a difficult conversation, that's for sure. I think we're headed down the road to not being friends anymore, if only because I don't want to talk to someone who's going to preach to me every time I talk to them. I know he certainly wouldn't appreciate me telling him every time we spoke how stupid I think his beliefs are.

Anyway, thanks for the honest response. It at least gives me a different perspective to think about before I call him.
8/26/12 11:37 AM
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DeuceDroppin
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Seriously just dump him and get it over with. You don't need the annoyance in your life. He's full on fucked in the head at this point, and nothing you can say or do will change that. Sometimes it's just better to let go, and I'm being serious. Just have a good understanding that people change, and many times the person you now know, is not the person that you were good friends with. It's part of life and unfortunately what happens to so many.

And for the record, my advice isn't because he's religious, but because he's a zealot. He should respect that you're not, but he doesn't. Kind of like being a straight guy with gay friends. If you see their gayness some, and they mention it some...who cares? If they are constantly trying to fuck you in the ass, then they are not respecting you. Same shit. Phone Post
8/29/12 11:40 PM
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DyingBreed
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When I hear christian rhetoric like "they will all burn" and "we are in, and they are out" I kinda wonder if the person is motivated by a true loving heart that has been changed by God. We are called not to be "right" all the time, we are called to be examples of Jesus and care about the things HE CARED ABOUT


Not saying any of the negatives mentioned applies to your friend, just a couple phrases reminded me of this subject and I had to rant, lol.

No wonder " Christians" are hated so much! 80% of the ones who claim him as lord contradict much of what he taught, when all it takes to reflect him perfectly is a heart and will submitted to allowing the holy spirit to live through us....but I guess that CAN be the hard part, though so so simple Phone Post

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