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3/2/13 10:40 AM
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Lord Nitemare
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Anybody know of any good books on Vikings? Something on par with gates of fire..Thanks.

3/2/13 11:11 AM
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jman
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edited for being too distracting and offtopic
3/2/13 11:54 AM
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Wahlau
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Regardless, my answer will always be the Gurkhas. They've been around forever too.

I would bet on 100 Gurkhas with their kukris against 100 vikings/spartans/ etc etc.
3/2/13 12:19 PM
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JJitsu
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anthonyMI - Basically, the Baltic region was the last part of Europe to become Christian. In order to deal with the pagans in Prussia, Poland asked the Pope for help and sent sent the Teutonic order, which had already been fighting the Muslims. What resulted was a campaign of conversion by the sword which included quite a bit of ethnic cleansing, with a huge part of the Prussian population either dead or displaced. From there they turned Prussia into their own State where they could rule with complete autonomy. After they conquered Prussia they then moved on to warring against Livonia and Lithuania. Since they were fighting Pagans, they decided that the already lax rules of medieval warfare were off the table. We are talking 200 years of near-continuous war driven by a mixture of religious zealotry with an influx of the second sons of German nobility with no land of their own and a chance to kill in order to get some. It was also a big source for the slave trade because of prohibitions against using other Christians as slaves.

Much like the Levantine Crusades were originally meant to help defend the Byzantine Empire but ended up sacking Constantinople, the Tuetonic Knights eventually went to war with Poland and conquered the northern part of it. They also went to war with Novgorod. Alexander Nevski made his name as a Russian folk hero beating them back.

They are the bad guys of most Northeast European national folklore.

Wow cool post, i want to read more about that part, just finished a book called Savage Continent about europe from 1945 - 1950 and the craziest parts are what happened in that region. The polish, ukranians and germans all basically gang raped the shit out of each others women for revenge stemming back to beefs from that era forward. Reading 1453 right now, about how hard the west fucked over the Byzantine empire then left them to the Turks. Apparently greeks are still pissed about this.

3/2/13 1:36 PM
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Zenoplata
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Lord Nitemare - 

Anybody know of any good books on Vikings? Something on par with gates of fire..Thanks.


Eaters of the Dead

3/2/13 2:42 PM
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MickColins
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Anthony MI's comment on the Teutonic Knights being the bad guys of Eastern European stories is spot on. I was browsing some books yesterday and found a Polish book and a Russian book that are about fighting them and are considered national treasures. Pretty much everyone seemed to hate them.

 

Eaters of the Dead is also a cool book. My favorite WW2 unit was The Devil's Brigade. They pulled off some cool missions and were kind of chewed up by commanders who didn't know how to use them.

3/2/13 2:45 PM
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Lord Nitemare
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MickColins - 

Anthony MI's comment on the Teutonic Knights being the bad guys of Eastern European stories is spot on. I was browsing some books yesterday and found a Polish book and a Russian book that are about fighting them and are considered national treasures. Pretty much everyone seemed to hate them.

 

Eaters of the Dead is also a cool book. My favorite WW2 unit was The Devil's Brigade. They pulled off some cool missions and were kind of chewed up by commanders who didn't know how to use them.


Eaters of the dead is the story of the Arab who joined a Norse clan, correct? 13th Warrior was based off of it?

 

and as far as WWII era SOF, Marine Raiders were some bad motherfuckers as well...

3/2/13 2:50 PM
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Triple_B
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Mongols, Spartans are a distant 2nd
3/2/13 2:53 PM
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Lord Nitemare
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Triple_B - Mongols, Spartans are a distant 2nd

No way...there is no clearly defined "best". But the closest to the best may be the Spartans - Mongols were great on horseback but they were shitty infantrymen.

3/2/13 4:15 PM
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JkdSam
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MickColins - 

"Had Ogedei not died, it's very possible the the Roman Catholic church would not exist today - definitely it would be a shell of it's current self."

 

Don't know about that. One of Temujin's virtues was he was leniant towards religions. One of his best friends/blood brothers was a Christian. Both he and Ogodei had Christians around. Mongke Khan told a French diplomat that he'd give Jerusalem to the Christians if he decided to go west and conquer it. The Mongols were good at leaving certain infrastructure alone so it wouldn't effect the flow of trade/activity. They also would leave you alone if you paid protection. They were very open minded towards religion and usually tried to leave religious people alone. Well, most of them. When large numbers became Muslim, then they became a lot more belligerent. But, even then, other Muslims hated Muslim mongols who were dicks like Tamerlane.

 

As to the Mongols prospects in Europe, I still doubt they'd have had much success for a few reasons. The first I stated in the whole terrain issue. Secondly, European fixed fortifications were a whole different ball of wax than Middle Eastern or Chinese. The Mongols/Tartars that would raid into Europe for years as parts of various Khanates or Hordes always had issues with them. Genghis,Subotei and that crew of wreckers improved and became very good at cracking fortfications but they would be gone. And its not just about breaking into those castles/fortresses/etc... if you bypass them you are putting your own supply lines in peril. And the Mongols didn't have a navy cruising around the Med. One of the biggest problems that ancient to medieval armies would have to overcome were logistical. The Mongols knew how to survive in China and the Middle East. Keeping supply lines going in Europe as a Middle Eastern/Asian force where there are hundreds of castles and forts is problematic. The Mongols would have found the same problems as the Ottomans did as they got to Austria. Besieging is a problem but its also an issue because it pins your force down. While you are sitting there,digging tunnels and attempting breeches, a relief force could hammer you like the Holy League did to the Ottomans.

 

The other issue most seem to forget is that the Mongols were united for a wee bit. Keeping them together was like herding cats. 20 year after Ogodei died, you'd end up with Kublai and the Yuan, the Mongo-Turk Chagatei Khanate, The Golden Horde and the Hulagu Ilkhanate. You'd have needed them to stay unified for a chance. There was also previous steppe/cavalry heavy armies like the Huns and Magyars that attacked west and came upon problems and eventually pulled back/lost. The Europeans werent pussies.


I'm not going to disagree with you based on the fact that we're talking about what ifs, but if the Pope's message that was delivered to the Khans by John of Plano Carpini and the Khan's reply are factored in to the discussion, I can see the Khans wanting to commit extremely prejudiced genocide against the Roman Catholic kingdom and religion if they ever met.

The Khans did tolerate other religions, but it was less about them being tolerant and more about them thinking that having people of other religions praying for them to their respective Gods was good just in case their God was real.

But, it's all speculation. I liked reading your opinions and think you made alot of great points.

3/2/13 5:34 PM
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sawdusk
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alexander the great could have led a girl scout troupe and conquered half the world... 40,000 soldiers, 20,000 miles, over 12 years never losing a battle...

"to the strongest"!!!!
3/2/13 5:36 PM
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Lord Nitemare
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Darby's Rangers

3/2/13 5:38 PM
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Lord Nitemare
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Roger's Rangers

3/2/13 5:41 PM
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Lord Nitemare
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The Devil's Brigade

3/2/13 5:44 PM
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Triple_B
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Lord Nitemare - 
Triple_B - Mongols, Spartans are a distant 2nd

No way...there is no clearly defined "best". But the closest to the best may be the Spartans - Mongols were great on horseback but they were shitty infantrymen.


Well growing up in a nomadic society on the steppe will do that.

I could also argue that Spartans weren't as good on horseback.

The Mongols tactics, army organization, use of intelligence, etc. are still admired and studied in the modern era.

They also had the brutality and mass murder thing going for them too. They even used the black plague as a weapon and helped it spread more rapidly throughout europe.
3/2/13 5:46 PM
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Lord Nitemare
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SAS WWII

 

3/2/13 5:48 PM
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Lord Nitemare
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British Commandos

 

3/2/13 5:50 PM
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Lord Nitemare
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While they were Nazi douchebags, Brandenburgers performed some of the most daring operations ever

3/2/13 5:51 PM
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Lord Nitemare
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USMC Raiders

3/2/13 5:58 PM
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Lord Nitemare
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Rakkassans, Screamin' Eagles or more commonly known as the Band of Brothers.

3/2/13 5:59 PM
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Lord Nitemare
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Filthy 13, an elite within an elite. 

3/2/13 6:01 PM
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Lord Nitemare
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Another pic

3/2/13 6:03 PM
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Lord Nitemare
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Sorry, all the 101st nut huggery but here's a pic of Dick Winters

3/2/13 6:05 PM
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Lord Nitemare
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Two Old school Batt boys fucking around with an MG

3/2/13 9:10 PM
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Lord Nitemare
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Bump

 

Mick Collins, how much do you know about Vikings?


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