UnderGround Forums
 

OtherGround Forums >> Who were the best Ancient Warriors OG?


3/1/13 2:41 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
NeoSpartan
555 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 3/9/09
Posts: 10722
This thread is so awesome
3/1/13 11:24 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Takedown
6 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 03/02/13 2:01 AM
Member Since: 3/12/02
Posts: 1148
<blockquote>Lord Nitemare - <p>
Is it true that a Gurkha can only pull out his blade with the intention of drawing blood? And if he doesn't he cuts the knuckles of his hand?</p>
<p>
ive heard this a gang load of times, always wondered if it was bs or not.

Pretty much bs my fren. As I mentioned earlier, the kukri is an all-purpose "tool" used in war, hunting & domestically (cutting veggies, meat, wood, etc.). Again, it's something that I would attribute to the "Gurkha mystique" created in large part by British literature/periodicals. That isn't to detract from the fact that Gurkhas are a very austere warrior caste of the Nepali people.

I leave you with these links for your reading enjoyment:

http://www.badassoftheweek.com/shrestha.html

http://www.badassoftheweek.com/pun.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8-LRxSl9aw

Now, back to my Friday night Belgian IPA....
3/2/13 6:05 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
PeterIrl
19 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 9862
karasu - being a man of peace......... the "best" Ancient Warriors IMHO are the ones that did NOT use WAR as an excuse to harm innocents.......

and I am guessing if such Warriors ever actually existed, they would belong to the religious Warrior-Monk traditions such as Knights Templar and Knights Hospitaller


You might want to do a bit of reading before you hold those guys up as a beacon of true virtue and morality...
3/2/13 7:33 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Lord Nitemare
204 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/27/11
Posts: 7625

^ The Apache were incredibly badass, does anyone know anything about the Mohawk - they're probably the second most fearsome Native American tribe.

3/2/13 8:33 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
billydeewilliams
11 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 5/20/07
Posts: 661
The Mohawk may have been fearsome as well as the Apache, but the Comanche were the most lethal and feared native Americans. Phone Post
3/2/13 8:42 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Lord Nitemare
204 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/27/11
Posts: 7627
billydeewilliams -  The Mohawk may have been fearsome as well as the Apache, but the Comanche were the most lethal and feared native Americans. Phone Post

Comanche were some bad motherfuckers...but I still have a hard on for the Mohawk ever since I saw Last of the Mohicans.

3/2/13 9:19 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Lord Nitemare
204 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/27/11
Posts: 7628

Bump for  any info on Mohawks

 

...I think I might delve into older special operations units later, or the predecessors to modern special operations units, like Darby's Rangers, the OSS, (personal favorite) the Devil's Brigade, the British Commandoes of WWII, the Brandenburghers and the Italian combat divers of WWII. While they're not ancient, they're still relatively old by today's standards not to mention they are very, very badass.

 

in regards to actually ancient units, I only know of the Skirite Rangers, Roman combat swimmers (Germanic hordes turned ancient SEALs), and a Viking mercenary group - unfortunately I cannot remember their name.

3/2/13 9:23 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Lord Nitemare
204 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/27/11
Posts: 7629

And while we're on the subject, who's watching Vikings?

 

3/2/13 9:26 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Lord Nitemare
204 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/27/11
Posts: 7630

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KlmSiRJZEco

3/2/13 10:40 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Lord Nitemare
204 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/27/11
Posts: 7634

Anybody know of any good books on Vikings? Something on par with gates of fire..Thanks.

3/2/13 11:11 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
jman
423 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 03/02/13 12:44 PM
Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 13386
edited for being too distracting and offtopic
3/2/13 11:54 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Wahlau
12 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 2515
Regardless, my answer will always be the Gurkhas. They've been around forever too.

I would bet on 100 Gurkhas with their kukris against 100 vikings/spartans/ etc etc.
3/2/13 12:19 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
JJitsu
220 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/13/09
Posts: 731
anthonyMI - Basically, the Baltic region was the last part of Europe to become Christian. In order to deal with the pagans in Prussia, Poland asked the Pope for help and sent sent the Teutonic order, which had already been fighting the Muslims. What resulted was a campaign of conversion by the sword which included quite a bit of ethnic cleansing, with a huge part of the Prussian population either dead or displaced. From there they turned Prussia into their own State where they could rule with complete autonomy. After they conquered Prussia they then moved on to warring against Livonia and Lithuania. Since they were fighting Pagans, they decided that the already lax rules of medieval warfare were off the table. We are talking 200 years of near-continuous war driven by a mixture of religious zealotry with an influx of the second sons of German nobility with no land of their own and a chance to kill in order to get some. It was also a big source for the slave trade because of prohibitions against using other Christians as slaves.

Much like the Levantine Crusades were originally meant to help defend the Byzantine Empire but ended up sacking Constantinople, the Tuetonic Knights eventually went to war with Poland and conquered the northern part of it. They also went to war with Novgorod. Alexander Nevski made his name as a Russian folk hero beating them back.

They are the bad guys of most Northeast European national folklore.

Wow cool post, i want to read more about that part, just finished a book called Savage Continent about europe from 1945 - 1950 and the craziest parts are what happened in that region. The polish, ukranians and germans all basically gang raped the shit out of each others women for revenge stemming back to beefs from that era forward. Reading 1453 right now, about how hard the west fucked over the Byzantine empire then left them to the Turks. Apparently greeks are still pissed about this.

3/2/13 1:36 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Zenoplata
160 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 6/14/10
Posts: 10792
Lord Nitemare - 

Anybody know of any good books on Vikings? Something on par with gates of fire..Thanks.


Eaters of the Dead

3/2/13 2:42 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
MickColins
116 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/14/08
Posts: 11133

Anthony MI's comment on the Teutonic Knights being the bad guys of Eastern European stories is spot on. I was browsing some books yesterday and found a Polish book and a Russian book that are about fighting them and are considered national treasures. Pretty much everyone seemed to hate them.

 

Eaters of the Dead is also a cool book. My favorite WW2 unit was The Devil's Brigade. They pulled off some cool missions and were kind of chewed up by commanders who didn't know how to use them.

3/2/13 2:45 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Lord Nitemare
204 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/27/11
Posts: 7640
MickColins - 

Anthony MI's comment on the Teutonic Knights being the bad guys of Eastern European stories is spot on. I was browsing some books yesterday and found a Polish book and a Russian book that are about fighting them and are considered national treasures. Pretty much everyone seemed to hate them.

 

Eaters of the Dead is also a cool book. My favorite WW2 unit was The Devil's Brigade. They pulled off some cool missions and were kind of chewed up by commanders who didn't know how to use them.


Eaters of the dead is the story of the Arab who joined a Norse clan, correct? 13th Warrior was based off of it?

 

and as far as WWII era SOF, Marine Raiders were some bad motherfuckers as well...

3/2/13 2:50 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Triple_B
14 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 4/25/11
Posts: 597
Mongols, Spartans are a distant 2nd
3/2/13 2:53 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Lord Nitemare
204 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/27/11
Posts: 7641
Triple_B - Mongols, Spartans are a distant 2nd

No way...there is no clearly defined "best". But the closest to the best may be the Spartans - Mongols were great on horseback but they were shitty infantrymen.

3/2/13 4:15 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
JkdSam
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/22/09
Posts: 3198
MickColins - 

"Had Ogedei not died, it's very possible the the Roman Catholic church would not exist today - definitely it would be a shell of it's current self."

 

Don't know about that. One of Temujin's virtues was he was leniant towards religions. One of his best friends/blood brothers was a Christian. Both he and Ogodei had Christians around. Mongke Khan told a French diplomat that he'd give Jerusalem to the Christians if he decided to go west and conquer it. The Mongols were good at leaving certain infrastructure alone so it wouldn't effect the flow of trade/activity. They also would leave you alone if you paid protection. They were very open minded towards religion and usually tried to leave religious people alone. Well, most of them. When large numbers became Muslim, then they became a lot more belligerent. But, even then, other Muslims hated Muslim mongols who were dicks like Tamerlane.

 

As to the Mongols prospects in Europe, I still doubt they'd have had much success for a few reasons. The first I stated in the whole terrain issue. Secondly, European fixed fortifications were a whole different ball of wax than Middle Eastern or Chinese. The Mongols/Tartars that would raid into Europe for years as parts of various Khanates or Hordes always had issues with them. Genghis,Subotei and that crew of wreckers improved and became very good at cracking fortfications but they would be gone. And its not just about breaking into those castles/fortresses/etc... if you bypass them you are putting your own supply lines in peril. And the Mongols didn't have a navy cruising around the Med. One of the biggest problems that ancient to medieval armies would have to overcome were logistical. The Mongols knew how to survive in China and the Middle East. Keeping supply lines going in Europe as a Middle Eastern/Asian force where there are hundreds of castles and forts is problematic. The Mongols would have found the same problems as the Ottomans did as they got to Austria. Besieging is a problem but its also an issue because it pins your force down. While you are sitting there,digging tunnels and attempting breeches, a relief force could hammer you like the Holy League did to the Ottomans.

 

The other issue most seem to forget is that the Mongols were united for a wee bit. Keeping them together was like herding cats. 20 year after Ogodei died, you'd end up with Kublai and the Yuan, the Mongo-Turk Chagatei Khanate, The Golden Horde and the Hulagu Ilkhanate. You'd have needed them to stay unified for a chance. There was also previous steppe/cavalry heavy armies like the Huns and Magyars that attacked west and came upon problems and eventually pulled back/lost. The Europeans werent pussies.


I'm not going to disagree with you based on the fact that we're talking about what ifs, but if the Pope's message that was delivered to the Khans by John of Plano Carpini and the Khan's reply are factored in to the discussion, I can see the Khans wanting to commit extremely prejudiced genocide against the Roman Catholic kingdom and religion if they ever met.

The Khans did tolerate other religions, but it was less about them being tolerant and more about them thinking that having people of other religions praying for them to their respective Gods was good just in case their God was real.

But, it's all speculation. I liked reading your opinions and think you made alot of great points.

3/2/13 5:34 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
sawdusk
4 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/4/03
Posts: 6222
alexander the great could have led a girl scout troupe and conquered half the world... 40,000 soldiers, 20,000 miles, over 12 years never losing a battle...

"to the strongest"!!!!
3/2/13 5:36 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Lord Nitemare
204 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/27/11
Posts: 7647

Darby's Rangers

3/2/13 5:38 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Lord Nitemare
204 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/27/11
Posts: 7648

Roger's Rangers

3/2/13 5:41 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Lord Nitemare
204 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/27/11
Posts: 7649

The Devil's Brigade

3/2/13 5:44 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Triple_B
14 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 4/25/11
Posts: 600
Lord Nitemare - 
Triple_B - Mongols, Spartans are a distant 2nd

No way...there is no clearly defined "best". But the closest to the best may be the Spartans - Mongols were great on horseback but they were shitty infantrymen.


Well growing up in a nomadic society on the steppe will do that.

I could also argue that Spartans weren't as good on horseback.

The Mongols tactics, army organization, use of intelligence, etc. are still admired and studied in the modern era.

They also had the brutality and mass murder thing going for them too. They even used the black plague as a weapon and helped it spread more rapidly throughout europe.
3/2/13 5:46 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Lord Nitemare
204 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/27/11
Posts: 7650

SAS WWII

 


Reply Post

You must log in to post a reply. Click here to login.