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OtherGround Forums >> Who were the best Ancient Warriors OG?


3/29/13 5:11 PM
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Triple_B
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^ correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the Huns were Caucasians?

 


They are believed to be related to the Mongols and other Central Asian peoples actually. It is theorized that they were originally part of the Xiongnu (pronounced Hung-no) Confederation, an ancient nomadic confederation (the first of its kind in the steppes) that sprawled from Central Asia to Manchuria, including parts of Siberia. Everything we know about them is from Chinese sources. Still alot of mystery surrounding them. They were the reason China began construction on The Great Wall.

Unfortunately other than the similar pronunciation and some similarities in artifacts there isn't alot of evidence linking them.

After that The Romans mention a people called the Hunnoi that settled near the Caspian Sea. Once again, no one is 100% sure that these are the same Huns of Attlia

What we know for sure is that The Huns migrated to a region east of the Volga River near the Caucasus in the 4th century AD. They crossed The Volga and subjugated The Alans soon after. It is theorized that they were forced to migrate towards Europa by The Rouran Khaganate.
3/29/13 5:34 PM
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Lord Nitemare
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Triple_B - 
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^ correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the Huns were Caucasians?

 


They are believed to be related to the Mongols and other Central Asian peoples actually. It is theorized that they were originally part of the Xiongnu (pronounced Hung-no) Confederation, an ancient nomadic confederation (the first of its kind in the steppes) that sprawled from Central Asia to Manchuria, including parts of Siberia. Everything we know about them is from Chinese sources. Still alot of mystery surrounding them. They were the reason China began construction on The Great Wall.

Unfortunately other than the similar pronunciation and some similarities in artifacts there isn't alot of evidence linking them.

After that The Romans mention a people called the Hunnoi that settled near the Caspian Sea. Once again, no one is 100% sure that these are the same Huns of Attlia

What we know for sure is that The Huns migrated to a region east of the Volga River near the Caucasus in the 4th century AD. They crossed The Volga and subjugated The Alans soon after. It is theorized that they were forced to migrate towards Europa by The Rouran Khaganate.

Good post voted up

 

on another note, I have just recently been enlightened to the fact that Genghis/Temujin actually had Caucasian characteristics - those being he had red hair, green eyes, fair skin and rather tall. Can you guys provide any validity to those statements?

3/29/13 5:43 PM
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Triple_B
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lars_schifinkter - 
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^ please explain, again, was he really better than a Hannibal, a Scipio, or a Caesar? 


Hannibal lost.

Ghengis was always outnumbered. His army never reached more than 200 000 men for sure, and 110 000 is a more realistic number. He destroyed the army of North China, the most advanced military in the world at the time. Against Samarkand he faced at least 400 000 soldiers and destroyed them all.

His force was the most mobile the world has ever seen. They were literally the fastest army in the world, employing the most sophisticated supply and messaging system around. Each warrior had 3-4 horses in supply. His messaging stations allowed a rider to carry a message as far as 200 km in a single day.

As mentioned, his secondary generals, whom he is directly responsible for training and appointing, were also two of the greatest tacticians of all time. Subotai led 20 000 men around the Caspian see on a reconnaissance mission and ended up bringing Kievian Rus and the Kipchhaks to their knees. On one battle, Subotai harrassed 60 000 Russian and Kipchak forces into engaging him for nine days, with only 2 000 of his men. They led them to the other 18 000 who literally destroyed them in a hail of arrows.

That's one battle, over 9 days, outnumbered 3:1. On a scouting mission.

He was the master of both battle in the open field and siege tactics. His seige of what is now Beijing is legendary.

BBC Ghengis Khan is a great doc for you to watch.

And of course there is no way to tell who was really the best general. I wouldn't want to fight against any of those men.

To be honest he was often outnumbered by much more. The Mongols were nomadic barbarians and much of what we know about them is from the sources of their sedentary conquered foes. Something that is rarely mentioned, but has been proven is the use of dummy soldiers by The Mongol forces.

Being a nomadic society that relied on horses for their well being, A Mongol soldier would often travel with an extra horse or two. These spare horses were used prior to battle to deceive their enemies. What they would do is craft very crude dummies, place them on a horse, and put a torch on the dummy. Viewed from a distance at night, a small organized army of 40,000 could appear to be a massive force 80,000 or over 100,000.

Just to make sure the trick would work The Mongols would often dispatch spies prior to the arrival of their army. These spies would pose as members of the population or travelers and spread panic by saying a blood thirsty Mongol army of 100,000 was approaching.

The Mongols would attack a demoralized force and if their opposition realized they were being beaten down by an army much smaller than their own it was already to late.

This was used to great effect during Genghis Khan's campaign against the Khwarezmid Empire in which Genghis Khan overcame a force of 400,000 with a poorly rested army totaling less than 100,000 that was split up into smaller divisions. Still think he doesn't belong in the same sentence as Hannibal or Scipio Africanus?
3/29/13 5:55 PM
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Triple_B
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Triple_B - 
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^ correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the Huns were Caucasians?

 


They are believed to be related to the Mongols and other Central Asian peoples actually. It is theorized that they were originally part of the Xiongnu (pronounced Hung-no) Confederation, an ancient nomadic confederation (the first of its kind in the steppes) that sprawled from Central Asia to Manchuria, including parts of Siberia. Everything we know about them is from Chinese sources. Still alot of mystery surrounding them. They were the reason China began construction on The Great Wall.

Unfortunately other than the similar pronunciation and some similarities in artifacts there isn't alot of evidence linking them.

After that The Romans mention a people called the Hunnoi that settled near the Caspian Sea. Once again, no one is 100% sure that these are the same Huns of Attlia

What we know for sure is that The Huns migrated to a region east of the Volga River near the Caucasus in the 4th century AD. They crossed The Volga and subjugated The Alans soon after. It is theorized that they were forced to migrate towards Europa by The Rouran Khaganate.

Good post voted up

 

on another note, I have just recently been enlightened to the fact that Genghis/Temujin actually had Caucasian characteristics - those being he had red hair, green eyes, fair skin and rather tall. Can you guys provide any validity to those statements?


Some sources have described Hunnic peoples as having both red hair and green eyes. IIRC Attila was said to have red hair and fair skin, not sure about the eyes though. The same has also been said about The Xiongnu and other Central Asian peoples. You have to realize that Central Asia is very diverse racially and these people have been breeding with each other for along time. It is a large area. When you take into account all the conquering and breeding Mongols did I'm sure you would find plenty of people with the traits you mentioned. You would also find alot of people with the black hair and short noses associated with Mongols traditionally and everything in between.

In the modern day green eyes and red hair is most widely seen in the Uzbek people of Uzbekistan as far as Central Asia is concerned.

As for being tall, you have to realize that growing in a nomadic society on The Steppe means you are most likely bow legged from riding horses and you grew up wrestling. I sincerely doubt many of the ancient people that resided in steppes stood tall and upright in their day.
3/29/13 9:11 PM
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Lord Nitemare
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^ voted up, good post

3/29/13 9:12 PM
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Lord Nitemare
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Fuck, I already voted you up....I'll do it tomorrow 

3/29/13 10:41 PM
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MickColins
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"one of the more interesting tidbits about his war with pompey that said a lot about his ability to inspire troops was that there was nothing in this war for them (whereas pompey paid his)... there was no slaves or booty to be had... they were going against their brothers in what they knew would be a tough battle with nothing to gain afterwards... and it's of course a lot easier to spur troops on with the promise of slaves and spoils should they win, which was the norm..."

 

JCaesar was a fantastic leader. His charge at Alesia prevented a potential Roman defeat. His soldiers were super loyal to him. Caesar had a lot of admirable qualities. Its why so many people over the centuries talk about him to this day. I just think he was a douchebag. Its a personal opinion thing.

 

On a side note, here's a picture of a Polish Winged Hussar. I always thought they were cool. They'd charge with the winged armor and it must have been awesome to see.

3/30/13 6:53 AM
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Lord Nitemare
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^ Whaaaat the fuck?

Didnt that make them more susceptible to getting fucked up?

3/30/13 9:59 AM
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Lord Nitemare
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Skimming through Chris McNab's History of US SOF - it's fantastic. I'd recommend it for any military history buff

3/30/13 10:33 AM
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BaldTony
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Lord Nitemare - 

Skimming through Chris McNab's History of US SOF - it's fantastic. I'd recommend it for any military history buff


I went to University with Chris. Top, top bloke
3/30/13 10:46 AM
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Lord Nitemare
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BaldTony - 
Lord Nitemare - 

Skimming through Chris McNab's History of US SOF - it's fantastic. I'd recommend it for any military history buff


I went to University with Chris. Top, top bloke

Really? Where'd you go? 

Needless to say, the guy is brilliant. 

 

Heres the link if anyone's interested:

http://www.ospreypublishing.com/store/America’s-Elite--US-Special-Forces-from-the-American-Revolution-to-the-Present-Day_9781780962849

3/30/13 3:32 PM
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MickColins
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Lord Nitemare -

^ Whaaaat the fuck?

Didnt that make them more susceptible to getting fucked up?

You'd think so. I think they decided the psychological effect was worth the risk. The winged hussars led the largest cavalry charge in the history of warfare at the second siege of Vienna. They broke the Ottoman line and saved Europe. Phone Post 3.0
3/30/13 3:48 PM
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Lord Nitemare
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MickColins - 
Lord Nitemare -

^ Whaaaat the fuck?

Didnt that make them more susceptible to getting fucked up?

You'd think so. I think they decided the psychological effect was worth the risk. The winged hussars led the largest cavalry charge in the history of warfare at the second siege of Vienna. They broke the Ottoman line and saved Europe. Phone Post 3.0

Well, that shit is definitely ballsy - I'll give them that.

3/30/13 6:20 PM
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Zenoplata
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Ragnar Lodbrok and the motha fucking Vikings!

Between them and Spartans.

3/30/13 7:08 PM
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Lord Nitemare
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^ it's a fucking awesome show dude

3/30/13 7:13 PM
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Lord Nitemare
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Mick, can you think of any American warriors that rank up there with the warriors of Antiquity/dark ages? 

3/31/13 9:14 AM
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BaldTony
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Lord Nitemare - 
BaldTony - 
Lord Nitemare - 

Skimming through Chris McNab's History of US SOF - it's fantastic. I'd recommend it for any military history buff


I went to University with Chris. Top, top bloke

Really? Where'd you go? 

Needless to say, the guy is brilliant. 

 

Heres the link if anyone's interested:

http://www.ospreypublishing.com/store/America’s-Elite--US-Special-Forces-from-the-American-Revolution-to-the-Present-Day_9781780962849


Aberystwyth, Wales. Long time ago. I don't often read military history books, but are they worth getting?
3/31/13 9:22 AM
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Lord Nitemare
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BaldTony - 
Lord Nitemare - 
BaldTony - 
Lord Nitemare - 

Skimming through Chris McNab's History of US SOF - it's fantastic. I'd recommend it for any military history buff


I went to University with Chris. Top, top bloke

Really? Where'd you go? 

Needless to say, the guy is brilliant. 

 

Heres the link if anyone's interested:

http://www.ospreypublishing.com/store/America’s-Elite--US-Special-Forces-from-the-American-Revolution-to-the-Present-Day_9781780962849


Aberystwyth, Wales. Long time ago. I don't often read military history books, but are they worth getting?

Well, you have to understand I'm going to join the military - but I am a huge military history fan. I don't really know how to explain it, it's just what I'm interested in. But with that said, even a layperson could appreciate the work the guy has done. His recent book on SOF was fantastic, and his book on thr Napoleonic wars is outstanding.

3/31/13 9:43 AM
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BaldTony
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Cool. I'll check them out. Thanks, and good luck when you join up!
3/31/13 10:25 AM
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Lord Nitemare
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^ thank you

4/1/13 10:35 PM
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HULC
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Triple_B - 
Lord Nitemare - 
Triple_B - 
Lord Nitemare - 

^ correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the Huns were Caucasians?

 


They are believed to be related to the Mongols and other Central Asian peoples actually. It is theorized that they were originally part of the Xiongnu (pronounced Hung-no) Confederation, an ancient nomadic confederation (the first of its kind in the steppes) that sprawled from Central Asia to Manchuria, including parts of Siberia. Everything we know about them is from Chinese sources. Still alot of mystery surrounding them. They were the reason China began construction on The Great Wall.

Unfortunately other than the similar pronunciation and some similarities in artifacts there isn't alot of evidence linking them.

After that The Romans mention a people called the Hunnoi that settled near the Caspian Sea. Once again, no one is 100% sure that these are the same Huns of Attlia

What we know for sure is that The Huns migrated to a region east of the Volga River near the Caucasus in the 4th century AD. They crossed The Volga and subjugated The Alans soon after. It is theorized that they were forced to migrate towards Europa by The Rouran Khaganate.

Good post voted up

 

on another note, I have just recently been enlightened to the fact that Genghis/Temujin actually had Caucasian characteristics - those being he had red hair, green eyes, fair skin and rather tall. Can you guys provide any validity to those statements?


Some sources have described Hunnic peoples as having both red hair and green eyes. IIRC Attila was said to have red hair and fair skin, not sure about the eyes though. The same has also been said about The Xiongnu and other Central Asian peoples. You have to realize that Central Asia is very diverse racially and these people have been breeding with each other for along time. It is a large area. When you take into account all the conquering and breeding Mongols did I'm sure you would find plenty of people with the traits you mentioned. You would also find alot of people with the black hair and short noses associated with Mongols traditionally and everything in between.

In the modern day green eyes and red hair is most widely seen in the Uzbek people of Uzbekistan as far as Central Asia is concerned.

As for being tall, you have to realize that growing in a nomadic society on The Steppe means you are most likely bow legged from riding horses and you grew up wrestling. I sincerely doubt many of the ancient people that resided in steppes stood tall and upright in their day.

Before the world got all PC there were studies done on the human remains in Avar and Hun graves in Europe. The men were all of a typical central Asian type still common in Mongolia. The women were a mixed bunch, many being of the same type as the men, but many also being of a local European type.
4/2/13 1:49 PM
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Lord Nitemare
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Bumping this shit

4/13/13 12:44 PM
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Lord Nitemare
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Amazing as to how warfare evolves, this was only some hundred years ago

Modern day

5/6/13 3:48 PM
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Lord Nitemare
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Bumping this shit

.

5/7/13 6:21 AM
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anthonyMI
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Some Special Forces fought as cavalry soldiers in the early phases of Afghanistan. There were even old-school cavalry charges.

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