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OtherGround Forums >> Who were the best Ancient Warriors OG?


9/2/12 6:22 PM
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Lord Nitemare
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Bump for Hospitallers
9/2/12 8:06 PM
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Jake95
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The Loge - The Spartans by a mile. They were raised in a true warrior society, with strict military discipline, and trained to be stone cold killers from the tender age of 7. They had the best of both worlds. In addition to their physical prowess they were trained in the most effective tactics and strategy of the day and equipped with the some of the best weaponry as well. Phone Post
They also fucked eachother in the ass Phone Post
9/2/12 9:19 PM
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Lord Nitemare
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Jake95 - 
The Loge - The Spartans by a mile. They were raised in a true warrior society, with strict military discipline, and trained to be stone cold killers from the tender age of 7. They had the best of both worlds. In addition to their physical prowess they were trained in the most effective tactics and strategy of the day and equipped with the some of the best weaponry as well. Phone Post
They also fucked eachother in the ass Phone Post

Nope, it's a common and quite bizarre misconception. Yes, when they were young they were matched with a more seasoned Soldier - but the relationship was in fact that. Anything more than that, like Pederasty would result in death. If I'm not mistaken it was one of the rules of Lycurgus.

So basically some of the Finest Warriors to ever walk th face of the planet - didn't like to fuck each other in the ass despite your claims.

As far as the Athenians, well, that's another story...
9/2/12 9:23 PM
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anthonyMI
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So basically some of the Finest Warriors to ever walk th face of the planet - didn't like to fuck each other in the ass despite your claims.
Considering how they did against the Sacred Band, maybe they should have.
9/2/12 9:41 PM
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Lord Nitemare
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Eh, they were outnumbered - doesn't mean that they weren't badass.

And the Sacred Band were fond of teh buttsecks
9/2/12 9:46 PM
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UGCTT_buchu8oolong
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Kevin bacon - 21 Sikh warriors vs 10 000 Afghans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Saragarhi

The Sikhs have a surprising history of being complete badasses. Their religion is pretty much that they must defend the weak no matter what. Not do any religious rituals and live a clean (weed is ok) and honest life. They have their own martial art as well.

Sikhs are 80% percent of the Indian military while only being 1,7% of the population. They are pretty much responsible for keeping the muslims from invading India throughout history while being outnumbered at around 20 - 1


I wish I could recall where I read it, but there was a article about some insane badassery that makes me agree here. Phone Post
9/2/12 10:12 PM
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Mudderfaeg
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Lord Nitemare -
Mudderfaeg - 
Mas Tisu -  Those filipino dudes that killed Magellan were pretty badass
You from Guam? Phone Post

The question is...Are you from Guam?
Yeah... Phone Post
9/2/12 10:55 PM
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quarcus
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Vikings Phone Post
9/2/12 10:58 PM
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Lord Nitemare
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quarcus -  Vikings Phone Post

Go a couple pages back
9/3/12 2:20 AM
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MickColins
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Heres 3 quick reasons why the Hospitallers>Templars.

1) At the Battle of Arsuf, Richard the Lionheart gave the Hospitallers the position of protecting the rear of the column. This was the most difficult and dangerous position in the crusaders advance down the coast. Richard put them there because they were the best soldiers he had. Even though he was buddies with Templar leaders.

2) The Muslims held the hospitallers in higher regard.

3) The Hospitallers survived the exit of Europeans from the Holy Land and managed to partake in and win major battles late in the middle ages.(Lepanto, Siege of Malta) Phone Post
9/3/12 2:29 AM
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random_perv
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Americans. Phone Post
9/3/12 8:35 AM
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Lord Nitemare
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MickColins -  Heres 3 quick reasons why the Hospitallers>Templars.

1) At the Battle of Arsuf, Richard the Lionheart gave the Hospitallers the position of protecting the rear of the column. This was the most difficult and dangerous position in the crusaders advance down the coast. Richard put them there because they were the best soldiers he had. Even though he was buddies with Templar leaders.

2) The Muslims held the hospitallers in higher regard.

3) The Hospitallers survived the exit of Europeans from the Holy Land and managed to partake in and win major battles late in the middle ages.(Lepanto, Siege of Malta) Phone Post

I wish I could vote up. Not to mention the fact, that from what I understand they were actually trained within their order whereas Templars had no training - they were just recruited.

Do you recommend any books on Hospitallers?
9/3/12 8:42 AM
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HULC
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Last of theTenors - 
HULC - 
Lord Nitemare - 
Last of theTenors - 
Lord Nitemare - 
anthonyMI - A Huscarl was a generic term for a household soldier. The quality varied widely.

From what I understand, the Beserkers were the Viking's "elite".

Although, I swear there is another Viking band of Warriors - super badass, just can't remember their names. Thnk the ancient version of the Expendables, they were mercenaries btw.

Varangians?

Oooh fuck yeah dude.

Shit, it's amazing all the warrior cultures that came from the Vikings, Varangians, Normans, a number of Celtic tribes.

Really interesting when you think about it.

Ummm, the Varangians were a troop of bodyguards recruited from all over the known world. At one time they were mainly Scandinavian but later on they were mainly drawn from English mercenaries. And no Celtic tribes cam from the Vikings, since the Vikings were Germanic.

The term "Varangian" is actually an name given to Vikings by the Slavs and Greeks of the time, at the time of the forming of the guard it was almost strictly made up of Scandinavians but Anglo-Saxons would later join in larger numbers.

I don't disagree about "no Celtic tribes came from the Vikings" but the Celts were certainly Germanic in origin, if you look up the Celtic empire that stretched over most of western, central and eastern Europe and which predated the Roman empire you would certainly think they were.

Please excuse my poor grammar, English is not my primary language.


Your grammar is fine.

The Celts weren't Germanic in origin though. The Celtic languages are actually more closely related to the Romance/Latin languages than they are to the Germanic languages. Celtic and Germanic areas overlapped not that much actually.
9/3/12 9:01 AM
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HULC
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MickColins -  Heres 3 quick reasons why the Hospitallers>Templars.

1) At the Battle of Arsuf, Richard the Lionheart gave the Hospitallers the position of protecting the rear of the column. This was the most difficult and dangerous position in the crusaders advance down the coast. Richard put them there because they were the best soldiers he had. Even though he was buddies with Templar leaders.

2) The Muslims held the hospitallers in higher regard.

3) The Hospitallers survived the exit of Europeans from the Holy Land and managed to partake in and win major battles late in the middle ages.(Lepanto, Siege of Malta) Phone Post

1) At Arsuf Richard put the Templars at the front and the Hospitallers at the rear, the two biggest areas of danger. They were positions of similar danger and importance.

2) I didn't know this, what is this based on?

3) The Templars weren't destroyed by battle though. What did for the Templars was them being outlawed by the European royalty of the time that seized all their money and executed many of their members.

Did the Hospitallers ever get a victory as great as Montgisard?
9/3/12 10:26 AM
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Lord Nitemare
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HULC - 
MickColins -  Heres 3 quick reasons why the Hospitallers>Templars.

1) At the Battle of Arsuf, Richard the Lionheart gave the Hospitallers the position of protecting the rear of the column. This was the most difficult and dangerous position in the crusaders advance down the coast. Richard put them there because they were the best soldiers he had. Even though he was buddies with Templar leaders.

2) The Muslims held the hospitallers in higher regard.

3) The Hospitallers survived the exit of Europeans from the Holy Land and managed to partake in and win major battles late in the middle ages.(Lepanto, Siege of Malta) Phone Post

1) At Arsuf Richard put the Templars at the front and the Hospitallers at the rear, the two biggest areas of danger. They were positions of similar danger and importance.

2) I didn't know this, what is this based on?

3) The Templars weren't destroyed by battle though. What did for the Templars was them being outlawed by the European royalty of the time that seized all their money and executed many of their members.

Did the Hospitallers ever get a victory as great as Montgisard?

3.) Or according to some conspiracy theorists after finding whatever they found under Solomon's temple they became a secret society.
9/3/12 11:36 AM
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anthonyMI
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The Templar's "Solomon's Temple" was actually The Dome of the Rock. That is the main reason the third holiest site in Islam survived the Crusaders. Phone Post
9/3/12 11:59 AM
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anthonyMI
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Conspiracy theories aside, both orders still exist. The Portuguese Templars's changed their name to the Knights of Christ which are still around. The Hospitilars are now the Knights of Malta, a sovereign state without territory which operates out of the Vatican. Phone Post
9/3/12 12:58 PM
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thembones
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Had to be the Mongols:

- A loosely associated group of mountain tribes with a tiny population managed to capture the LARGEST land empire in HISTORY over just 2 generations.
- Their empire extended from the Yellow Sea in Eastern Asia to the borders of Eastern Europe. Conquests included all of China, Persia, Korea, along with large parts of Russia, Hungry and Poland.
- Only Army in history that conquered all of Asia
- Nearly wiped out Islamic-Arabic civilization
- Mongol warriors grew up in the Steppes, basically lived off their horses and bow+ arrows since they were kids
- Used mobility + superior organization + strategy + tactics to destroy European armies who had superior technology.
- Modern military experts largely agree that the Mongols might have conquered all of Europe and altered history if Genghis Khan's son hadn't died during the campaign, forcing the Mongol Army to group and elect a new Khan
- Mongol army could cover up to 100 MILES per day in the 13 century. This was faster than any army would ever move up until WW2
- Mongol warriors would stick bamboo into their horses and drink their blood while riding so they could keep moving without stopping for camp. When necessary, they could survive a whole month drinking a mixture of Mare's milk combined with Mare's blood.
- They were nomadic tribes with no concept of siege technology, but mastered mastered siege warfare by capturing and converting their enemy engineer
9/3/12 1:54 PM
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Lord Nitemare
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anthonyMI -  Conspiracy theories aside, both orders still exist. The Portuguese Templars's changed their name to the Knights of Christ which are still around. The Hospitilars are now the Knights of Malta, a sovereign state without territory which operates out of the Vatican. Phone Post

Pretty amazing when you really consider it. I'm no expert, but from what I understand - The Knight's of Malta actually turned out to be pretty fearsome. Did the Templars ever really amount to anything after the Crusades? They were pretty much rooted out and killed following their "Holy Wars", did they ever create a Military force that was comparable to the Knights of Malta?

And as far as Conspiracy theories, I doubt those old fuckers have any real control over the world. Sorry, but all that EVILYOSHIDA, Illuminati bullshit...eh? Really?
9/3/12 1:57 PM
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Lord Nitemare
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thembones - Had to be the Mongols:

- A loosely associated group of mountain tribes with a tiny population managed to capture the LARGEST land empire in HISTORY over just 2 generations.
- Their empire extended from the Yellow Sea in Eastern Asia to the borders of Eastern Europe. Conquests included all of China, Persia, Korea, along with large parts of Russia, Hungry and Poland.
- Only Army in history that conquered all of Asia
- Nearly wiped out Islamic-Arabic civilization
- Mongol warriors grew up in the Steppes, basically lived off their horses and bow+ arrows since they were kids
- Used mobility + superior organization + strategy + tactics to destroy European armies who had superior technology.
- Modern military experts largely agree that the Mongols might have conquered all of Europe and altered history if Genghis Khan's son hadn't died during the campaign, forcing the Mongol Army to group and elect a new Khan
- Mongol army could cover up to 100 MILES per day in the 13 century. This was faster than any army would ever move up until WW2
- Mongol warriors would stick bamboo into their horses and drink their blood while riding so they could keep moving without stopping for camp. When necessary, they could survive a whole month drinking a mixture of Mare's milk combined with Mare's blood.
- They were nomadic tribes with no concept of siege technology, but mastered mastered siege warfare by capturing and converting their enemy engineer

I'm Russian, and supposedly I have Tatar blood - take from it what you will.

Regardless, they were badass - some of the greatest Warriors of all time...and on Horseback, there may have never been any better - maybe some Amerindian tribes but still.
9/3/12 4:41 PM
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MickColins
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 "1) At Arsuf Richard put the Templars at the front and the Hospitallers at the rear, the two biggest areas of danger. They were positions of similar danger and importance."

The Vanguard is important but at Arsuf, the rear guard was under constant attack. The Hospitallers showed great discipline by not charging until they were almost at their destination. And when they did charge, they chose the right moment. The mounted archers and skirmishers that were attacking them were dismounting and resupplying when the Hospitallers finally charged. They destroyed the muslim flank and Richard was smart enough to realize that and called for an all out attack. Richard the Lionheart is another medieval general that has been shit on by historians the last 100 or so years but was very good.

"
2) I didn't know this, what is this based on?"

When I was in college, I took classes on the Crusades and other medieval crap. In the Crusades class, we read some stuff(books,handouts) that was basically letters and historians from the muslim sides of the various conflicts. From what I remember, most of the muslims thought the Templars were thugs. They thought the Hospitallers were thugs,too but thought they were better at their jobs. The Ottomans especially held the Hospitallers in high regard. One Muslim writer called them "Christ's hell hounds" or something like that. Another example is that, when they did manage to beat the Hospitallers at places like Rhodes and the fall of Krak de Chevaliers, they showed them respect in letting the survivors leave and take their supporters/relics/etc..with them. The Hospitallers were accused a few times of having alliances with certain muslim groups by the Templars and other Europeans.

Which isn't to say the Templars were pussies. They were tough knights. But the Hospitallers were more like modern soldiers than the Templars. One piece of proof to both groups being bad motherfuckers was that Saladin issued a decree to his people that any Templars or Hospitallers captured should be put to death so they wouldn't have to fight them later.

"
3) The Templars weren't destroyed by battle though. What did for the Templars was them being outlawed by the European royalty of the time that seized all their money and executed many of their members."

It was the French. The Templars let them borrow tons of money they had no intention of paying back. And the Templars/Hospitallers only real defense against Governments in Europe was the Pope. And the King of France destroyed the Templar leadership before the Pope could send him a letter telling him to leave them alone. Which the Pope did and the letter is in the Vatican archives. The Hospitallers were smarter. They didn't get involved heavily in finance and made themselves useful by fighting the muslims in the Meditteranean. Even after the Protestant Reformation, protestant leaders like Queen Elizabeth still recognized their importance in being the first line of defense against the Turks/North Africans/etc... And the Templars were ended then. The conspiracy theories that started in the 18th century about the Freemasons and the Templars is a load of poop.

"Did the Hospitallers ever get a victory as great as Montgisard?"

The great siege of Malta is one of the biggest upsets in military history. 50-100,000 muslims versus 500 Hospitallers and 6,000 Maltese and Mercenaries. 
 
9/3/12 4:58 PM
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The Persian Devil
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Lord Nitemare -
camal -  Persians Phone Post

The Immortals?

Who put their name to the test?!
They conquered Asia and were the first warriors that used scale armor, the later samurai and mongol armor came directly from the persians. The persian archers and axe/scimitar troops were legendary in their day.

However, I think there have been many warrior societies with such skills. I've read a tremendous amount of literature on the subject. The spartans were amazing warriors, the mongols under Djingis and his sons, the samurai, native americans, nepalese gurkha, the sikhs, tartars, huns, romans. They were all great.

In terms of philosophy in combat and life I admire the spartans tremendously. Even though the persians spanked that ass ;-)

Read Plutarchs "On Sparta", very interesting stuff. Phone Post
9/4/12 11:54 AM
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Lord Nitemare
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The Persian Devil - 
Lord Nitemare -
camal -  Persians Phone Post

The Immortals?

Who put their name to the test?!
They conquered Asia and were the first warriors that used scale armor, the later samurai and mongol armor came directly from the persians. The persian archers and axe/scimitar troops were legendary in their day.

However, I think there have been many warrior societies with such skills. I've read a tremendous amount of literature on the subject. The spartans were amazing warriors, the mongols under Djingis and his sons, the samurai, native americans, nepalese gurkha, the sikhs, tartars, huns, romans. They were all great.

In terms of philosophy in combat and life I admire the spartans tremendously. Even though the persians spanked that ass ;-)

Read Plutarchs "On Sparta", very interesting stuff. Phone Post

Just fucking around, the Immortals definitely have to be on that list...

...if only they really looked like the dudes from 300
9/4/12 12:25 PM
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kalki
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Assyrians.....
9/10/12 3:28 PM
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Lord Nitemare
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Bump?

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