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OtherGround Forums >> Who were the best Ancient Warriors OG?


2/27/13 3:56 PM
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Lord Nitemare
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Bump

2/27/13 4:00 PM
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PoochesLipStick
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Tom Tolbert IMO Phone Post
2/27/13 4:41 PM
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Lord Nitemare
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PoochesLipStick -  Tom Tolbert IMO Phone Post

Nah, More like Tom Selleck IMO.

2/27/13 4:45 PM
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The Mat Pimp
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Federfechter, Marxbruder, Landsknecht, Switzers all deserve notable mention.

Sovereign Military Hospitaller Order of Saint John of Jerusalem of Rhodes and of Malta was ready to fight to the death against the Turks in the famous siege of Malta.

2/27/13 4:48 PM
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Takedown
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The Gurkhas
2/27/13 4:52 PM
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The Mat Pimp
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Also, for those who are pumping the samurai, honorable mention should also go to the Sohei of "fighting monks" of ancient Japan. It took all of Hideyoshi Toyotomi's forces as Taiko to take them out. Ancient Japanese proverb:

"three things are deadly and unpredictable: tsunamis, typhoons, and warrior monks."
2/27/13 4:56 PM
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Zenoplata
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It's Spartans!

TONIGHT WE DINE IN HELL!!!!

2/27/13 5:09 PM
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BillyRayChubbs
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I say the Vikings, but what do I know?

2/27/13 5:12 PM
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UGCTT_MMArijuana666
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Spartans. They have their own race. I don't see a " Hun Race" Phone Post
2/27/13 5:15 PM
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Honald_Heagan
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What constitutes ancient in this scenario? It's kind of unfair to compare classical civilizations to the middle ages. Phone Post
2/27/13 5:38 PM
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Lord Nitemare
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BillyRayChubbs - 

I say the Vikings, but what do I know?


Das my ancestors

2/27/13 5:47 PM
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Mas Tisu
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Mudderfaeg - 
Lord Nitemare -
Mudderfaeg - 
Mas Tisu -  Those filipino dudes that killed Magellan were pretty badass
You from Guam? Phone Post

The question is...Are you from Guam?
Yeah... Phone Post

Yep, Mudderfaeg, I'm from Guam (sorry for the late reply, I guess I posted on this thread and just never checked back).

Lord Nitemare, you asked me to elaborate on my post, and I never did.....my reference was to Lapu-Lapu and his Mactan Island warriors, who were skilled Eskrima fighters. The story of his killing of Magellan, sometimes romantacized a bit, is widely known in the geographical region where I'm from. Basically, some island dudes armed with sticks and knives whooped up on the Spanish/Portuguese dudes armed with guns. Yes, they had superior numbers, and Magellan may have severely understimated his foe, but still.

2/27/13 6:40 PM
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Lord Nitemare
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Mas Tisu - 
Mudderfaeg - 
Lord Nitemare -
Mudderfaeg - 
Mas Tisu -  Those filipino dudes that killed Magellan were pretty badass
You from Guam? Phone Post

The question is...Are you from Guam?
Yeah... Phone Post

Yep, Mudderfaeg, I'm from Guam (sorry for the late reply, I guess I posted on this thread and just never checked back).

Lord Nitemare, you asked me to elaborate on my post, and I never did.....my reference was to Lapu-Lapu and his Mactan Island warriors, who were skilled Eskrima fighters. The story of his killing of Magellan, sometimes romantacized a bit, is widely known in the geographical region where I'm from. Basically, some island dudes armed with sticks and knives whooped up on the Spanish/Portuguese dudes armed with guns. Yes, they had superior numbers, and Magellan may have severely understimated his foe, but still.


Very badass...

 

On another note, ve always been interested in Tribal warriors - and how hasn't anybody brought up the Maori yet?!

2/27/13 7:34 PM
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5 o clock shadow
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Mongols.

/thread

The problem with "warriors" in Europe and Japan was the emphasis on personal valor and heroism. That's why Yi Sun Shin mopped up the Japanese naval despite being ridiculously outnumbered (I can't recall the ratios right now: maybe 5~10 to 1?) Japanese naval tactics involved boarding enemy ships so samurai could honorably and heroically dispatch their enemies. Yi Sun Shin used knowledge of currents, tides, and other water hazards to run Japanese ships into bad positions, sinking them with gunfire or letting nature finish the job.

The same tactics were the achilles heel of European knights. Sure, these knights might be a match for anyone in a one-to-one battle, but warfare is never a one-on-one fight. That's why the cream of European knighthood, the Knights Templar, the Teutonic Knights, and the Knights Hospitaler were mopped up by the Mongols in Poland.

The Mongols were stopped in Egypt, Vietnam, and Japan*. However, the only thing to stop them in Europe was the death of Ogedei Khan. Otherwise the Mongols would have rode all the way to the Atlantic Ocean. After defeating Europe's elite in Poland, there was nothing left to stand in their way...

The Mongols defeated pretty much every army they encountered. Their tactics are still studied and used by militaries today. The pioneered psychological warfare. They waged warfare so horrifically, their victims (the civilizations) in Central Asia and the Middle East to this day still have not recovered.

War is an awful amoral enterprise and the Mongols were the best at it.


fos
2/27/13 7:35 PM
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HULC
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Lord Nitemare - 
Mas Tisu - 
Mudderfaeg - 
Lord Nitemare -
Mudderfaeg - 
Mas Tisu -  Those filipino dudes that killed Magellan were pretty badass
You from Guam? Phone Post

The question is...Are you from Guam?
Yeah... Phone Post

Yep, Mudderfaeg, I'm from Guam (sorry for the late reply, I guess I posted on this thread and just never checked back).

Lord Nitemare, you asked me to elaborate on my post, and I never did.....my reference was to Lapu-Lapu and his Mactan Island warriors, who were skilled Eskrima fighters. The story of his killing of Magellan, sometimes romantacized a bit, is widely known in the geographical region where I'm from. Basically, some island dudes armed with sticks and knives whooped up on the Spanish/Portuguese dudes armed with guns. Yes, they had superior numbers, and Magellan may have severely understimated his foe, but still.


Very badass...

 

On another note, ve always been interested in Tribal warriors - and how hasn't anybody brought up the Maori yet?!


The Maori dominated their local area but they were basically stone age tribesmen. In a battle against a Spartan or mediaeval knight armoured head to toe in either bronze or steel, they would have stood no chance.
2/27/13 7:44 PM
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5 o clock shadow
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A note and a question:

Yi Sun Shin was outnumbered 25 to 1 by the Japanese navy during the Battle of Myeongnyang.

Mas Tisu:

In 5th grade, our social studies class spent a year studying "the great explorers." It was the first time that I had ever learned about non-Europeans. We learned about brave and intrepid explores like Columbus and Pizzaro.

I remember learning about the genius and bravery of Ferdinand Magellan and how his life was tragically cut short when ignorant, naked, cannibals in the Philippines killed him.

Later, I heard the other side of the story. Magellan began killing and enslaving the people of the Philippines, but he was defied by a chieftain, Lapu Lapu. Originally, I heard the Lapu Lapu himself split Magellan open from adam's apple to crotch with his sword. However, when I went to the Mactan Shrine (a Lapu Lapu / Magellan Shrine), I read that Magellan was hit with a spear in the head. Do you know which story is true?


fos
2/27/13 7:45 PM
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5 o clock shadow
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Chupacabra208,

I haven't listened to hardcore history, but it sounds really interesting. Can you tell me more?

fos
2/27/13 7:51 PM
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Lord Nitemare
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chupacabra208 - 
5 o clock shadow - Mongols.

/thread

The problem with "warriors" in Europe and Japan was the emphasis on personal valor and heroism. That's why Yi Sun Shin mopped up the Japanese naval despite being ridiculously outnumbered (I can't recall the ratios right now: maybe 5~10 to 1?) Japanese naval tactics involved boarding enemy ships so samurai could honorably and heroically dispatch their enemies. Yi Sun Shin used knowledge of currents, tides, and other water hazards to run Japanese ships into bad positions, sinking them with gunfire or letting nature finish the job.

The same tactics were the achilles heel of European knights. Sure, these knights might be a match for anyone in a one-to-one battle, but warfare is never a one-on-one fight. That's why the cream of European knighthood, the Knights Templar, the Teutonic Knights, and the Knights Hospitaler were mopped up by the Mongols in Poland.

The Mongols were stopped in Egypt, Vietnam, and Japan*. However, the only thing to stop them in Europe was the death of Ogedei Khan. Otherwise the Mongols would have rode all the way to the Atlantic Ocean. After defeating Europe's elite in Poland, there was nothing left to stand in their way...

The Mongols defeated pretty much every army they encountered. Their tactics are still studied and used by militaries today. The pioneered psychological warfare. They waged warfare so horrifically, their victims (the civilizations) in Central Asia and the Middle East to this day still have not recovered.

War is an awful amoral enterprise and the Mongols were the best at it.


fos
Well said. You been listening to hardcore history? Phone Post

Bear in mind, I am not nearly as well read as you are on the subject...but the Mongols were decimated by the Samurai there's no denying that. Granted, the storm that came threw fucked their whole assault up - but still, they were decimated by the Samurai and to my knowledge they never attempted a mass invasion ever again. Correct me if Im wrong, your post was awesome by the way - voted up.

 

in regards to Bushido and Chivalry, I could understand how it limits them - but by the same token it separates them from the common barbarian which in a way is cool. But then again, being honorable wont save your ass when 12 Brock Lesnar looking motherfuckers are sprinting up your beach with full intention on cleaving your head off, fucking your wife in the asshole, and dashing your kids skull on a stone or some shit.

 

 

2/27/13 7:54 PM
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NeoSpartan
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I only read the first 2 pages.

I'm obviously a bit biased.

"Best warriors" Is a very subjective question. I think it's a three way tie between macedonians (under alexander) the spartans and the samurai.

if you asked me the most EFFECTIVE i'd say the mongols, EASILY.
2/27/13 7:55 PM
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Mas Tisu
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5 o clock shadow, I've heard several versions, including the one where Lapu Lapu personally eviscerated Magellan with his Barong. One thing is generally accepted, and that is that Lapu Lapu actually did the deed himself.

2/27/13 7:57 PM
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Hurrakayne
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Fearless Winker -  Maori

/Thread
This Phone Post
2/27/13 8:13 PM
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5 o clock shadow
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Mas Tisu,

Fucking awesome. I'll wear my Lapu Lapu shirt today!

Lord Nitemare,

Interesting note about codes of chivalry and bushido separating the civilized from the uncivilized, but when it comes to warfare, it's all uncivilized. The Mongols were probably just as bad as the Nazi's when you get right down to it. When it comes to conquest, "rules" are just a liability. There is no honor in a drone strike as opposed to one-on-one, put-your-money-where-your-mouth-is combat.

In regards to the Mongols in Japan, I always wondered if there wasn't any foul play involved on the Koryo side. The Mongol fleet was constructed and piloted by Koryo captains. These captains had intimate knowledge of the ocean and especially TYPHOON SEASON. On both occasions, Koryo sailors would have known it was a bad time to launch a fleet, but they did it anyways, not once but TWICE.

From what I have heard and read, the Mongols suffered losses trying to get their forces on land and establish a base of operations in Japan. Most of the Mongols and their horses never made it off the boats. They were beaten back by the samurai until they had to retreat because of the storm (archeological examinations of the bays in which the Mongols landed yielded little evidence of mass shipwrecks, leading researchers to conclude that the ships weren't destroyed by the storm -they simply retreated...)

No surprise that the Mongols would be bested in an amphibious battle. I'd still put my money on the Mongols if they successfully landed their troops in Japan. The samurai might have been better warriors individually, but the Mongols had superior tactics.

fos
2/27/13 8:17 PM
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Lord Nitemare
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Hurrakayne - 
Fearless Winker -  Maori

/Thread
This Phone Post

No way...Badass, no doubt. But what selection process did they have? How much training did they go through? What significant battles did they have? What Armies did they lay waste to?

 

^ Like Neo said before, if we're talking about the single most professional fighting force the Spartans would have to be top dog. Speaking of which, Lord Nitemare is quite the reader and he just so happened to get the peloponessian wars on his ipad - for those that aren't familiar with it, the Spartans basically fucked the Athenians for close to 10 years...I'll let you guys know what I thought of it.

2/27/13 8:58 PM
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Publicnoose
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The Loge - The Spartans by a mile. They were raised in a true warrior society, with strict military discipline, and trained to be stone cold killers from the tender age of 7. They had the best of both worlds. In addition to their physical prowess they were trained in the most effective tactics and strategy of the day and equipped with the some of the best weaponry as well. Phone Post
This Phone Post
2/27/13 9:01 PM
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Lord Nitemare
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Publicnoose - 
The Loge - The Spartans by a mile. They were raised in a true warrior society, with strict military discipline, and trained to be stone cold killers from the tender age of 7. They had the best of both worlds. In addition to their physical prowess they were trained in the most effective tactics and strategy of the day and equipped with the some of the best weaponry as well. Phone Post
This Phone Post

Agoge son.


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