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S&C UnderGround >> BMI says I am overweight


9/13/12 1:32 PM
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kroddy_man
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ArthurKnoqOut -  that took a weird turn...Leigh is right though...Kroddy, what make you think a 300 pound lifter is "healthier" than a lean and fit 170 pounder? 

First of all, there was no mention of 300lbs and neither of us mentioned a lifter.

Secondly, the simple fact is that height and weight alone cannot determine "health". Therefore, statements like Leigh made (and even you) are worthless in this context.

Let me ask you this, which is healthier:

A 6ft x 250lb man with 14% body fat with a perfect blood and metabolic panel or a 6ft x 170 lb man with congenital heart issues?

Looking at just height to weight ratios, the answer is the 170lb man.

-km
9/13/12 1:37 PM
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kroddy_man
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In addition, I see that you added "lean and fit" to the 170 lb person.

What if we said "who is healthier, the 300 lb lean and fit lifter or the 170 lb lean and fit person?

I'm really only trying to point out that sometimes our opinions and preconceived notions of things can cloud logic. This is particularly true in the "fitness and health" industries.

-km
9/13/12 1:39 PM
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ArthurKnoqOut
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 oh my bad...270 pounds...
9/13/12 2:26 PM
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Seul
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Leigh is very correct.

Obviously, it's better to be lean than fat, whatever the weight on the scale. You can be lean at 200 lbs, and you can be fat at 200 lbs.

Either way, being 200 lbs is more work for your body to maintain than being 150 lbs; your circulatory system has to work harder to pump blood to the extra tissue.

Also, most of the diseases correlated with being fat are more likely to occur if you 5'8", lean, and weigh 210 compared to someone who is 5'8", lean, and 150.

Is the BMI simplistic? Absolutely, and it is AT BEST a quick, simple, and extremely generalized profile for disease risk.

If you BMI is too high, but you are otherwise healthy, lean, and your bloodwork/vital signs are good, I would bet most doctors won't really care.

For MOST people, though, a BMI that's too high is accompanied by a big jiggly fat gut or other larger than healthy fat stores. Phone Post
9/13/12 2:28 PM
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Leigh
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kroddy_man lost all credibility when he failed to realise that BMI is useful for determining when someone is unhealthily over or under weight, regardless of body composition.

If he had any credibility left after that (which he didn't), he lost it when he tried to create a strawman and claim that a person with a lower BMI is not necessarily more healthy.

Maybe he thought he was the first guy to ever come here and try to make a name for himself by attacking others, just to have it backfire.
9/13/12 2:45 PM
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jeremy hamilton
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BMI is pretty crazy though. At 5'7 I would have to be 155lbs to be "Normal". I really don't think I have ever been that weight, even when I was running and training BJJ everyday I was at least 170. If I am ever at the "Normal" weight it will be on my death bed.
9/13/12 3:51 PM
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disbeliever
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Well at least we all established TAKU is a fat ass ;)
9/13/12 4:19 PM
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paw
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Would anyone like to educate me on this?  (bold = mine)

While the formula previously called the Quetelet Index for BMI dates to the 19th century, the new term "body mass index" for the ratio and its popularity date to a paper published in the July edition of 1972 in the Journal of Chronic Diseases by Ancel Keys, which found the BMI to be the best proxy for body fat percentage among ratios of weight and height;[4][5] the interest in measuring body fat being due to obesity becoming a discernible issue in prosperous Western societies. BMI was explicitly cited by Keys as being appropriate for population studies, and inappropriate for individual diagnosis.

9/13/12 6:02 PM
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Leigh
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What do you need education on? I have not seen that article but I think its saying that for the general population, its a reasonable estimate of body fat. It should not be used to determine body composition in an individual.

I don't think anyone is arguing otherwise. Phone Post
9/13/12 6:48 PM
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kroddy_man
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Leigh - kroddy_man lost all credibility when he failed to realise that BMI is useful for determining when someone is unhealthily over or under weight, regardless of body composition.

If he had any credibility left after that (which he didn't), he lost it when he tried to create a strawman and claim that a person with a lower BMI is not necessarily more healthy.

Maybe he thought he was the first guy to ever come here and try to make a name for himself by attacking others, just to have it backfire.

I laughed at the insinuation that I am trying to make a name for myself. Thanks for that.

I won't protract this conversation much more, but if I understand you correctly, are you saying that a person with a lower bmi is unquestionably healthier than a person with a higher bmi, even if they have the same body fat percentage?

Thanks for playing,
-km
9/13/12 7:04 PM
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kroddy_man
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Seul -  Leigh is very correct.

Obviously, it's better to be lean than fat, whatever the weight on the scale. You can be lean at 200 lbs, and you can be fat at 200 lbs.

Either way, being 200 lbs is more work for your body to maintain than being 150 lbs; your circulatory system has to work harder to pump blood to the extra tissue.

Also, most of the diseases correlated with being fat are more likely to occur if you 5'8", lean, and weigh 210 compared to someone who is 5'8", lean, and 150.

Is the BMI simplistic? Absolutely, and it is AT BEST a quick, simple, and extremely generalized profile for disease risk.

If you BMI is too high, but you are otherwise healthy, lean, and your bloodwork/vital signs are good, I would bet most doctors won't really care.

For MOST people, though, a BMI that's too high is accompanied by a big jiggly fat gut or other larger than healthy fat stores. Phone Post

"Obviously, it's better to be lean than fat, whatever the weight on the scale."

I agree with this statement 100%.


-km
9/14/12 1:59 AM
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Leigh
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kroddy_man -
Leigh - kroddy_man lost all credibility when he failed to realise that BMI is useful for determining when someone is unhealthily over or under weight, regardless of body composition.

If he had any credibility left after that (which he didn't), he lost it when he tried to create a strawman and claim that a person with a lower BMI is not necessarily more healthy.

Maybe he thought he was the first guy to ever come here and try to make a name for himself by attacking others, just to have it backfire.

I laughed at the insinuation that I am trying to make a name for myself. Thanks for that.

I won't protract this conversation much more, but if I understand you correctly, are you saying that a person with a lower bmi is unquestionably healthier than a person with a higher bmi, even if they have the same body fat percentage?

Thanks for playing,
-km
Obviously you do not understand me correctly. Your incorrect comprehension of my post would mean that I think losing weight is a miracle cure for every ailment. Despite having no credibility left, you are still making a fool of yourself by creating more straw men.

You are the only one playing and you still lost. Phone Post
9/14/12 1:05 PM
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kroddy_man
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Edited: 09/14/12 1:22 PM
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You are quite a hostile dude. Accusing me of incorrect comprehension is laughable...kettle.

Anyway you said this:

"A guy who is 6' and 250lbs, whether it be fat or muscle, is not going to be as healthy as a guy who is 6' and 170lbs".

That is an exact quote so make sure you read that again a few times.

Frankly, I am astounded that you, someone who clearly trains and is knowledgeable, do not see the fallacy of your original statement. In addition, you refused to answer my question "how do you define "healthy".

I said height/weight ratios do not determine "healthiness". Then I gave some hypothetical examples of why this is true.

My HYPOTHETICAL examples to refute this logic are NOT straw man arguments, perhaps you should learn what a straw man argument really is. BTW, it was only a matter of time before someone chimed in with the old straw man accusation. Its all the fad now on forums. Yet few actually understand what it is and its often unilaterally and incorrectly applied to counter points and HYPOTHETICAL examples. As in this case.

In fact, laughably so, this quote "Your incorrect comprehension of my post would mean that I think losing weight is a miracle cure for every ailment." is a true straw man argument, because I never implied or stated anything about losing weight, ailments or miracle cures. It takes my hypothetical and attempts to redirect it to an unrelated assumption.

I'm done. Nothing more to say. If you disagree or do not see the above as an accurate portrayal of the crux of this whole thing, then that's that.

Regards,
-km
9/14/12 5:24 PM
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Leigh
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In other words, owned Phone Post
9/14/12 7:25 PM
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kroddy_man
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Leigh -  In other words, owned Phone Post

Thanks for being man enough to admit it.

-km

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