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HolyGround >> Why were Adam and Eve forced to leave Eden?


9/7/12 10:55 AM
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Cappytime
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Just seeing who actually reads the bible and who just repeats what they are told by others. Phone Post
9/7/12 1:47 PM
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Cappytime
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Wow, no takers to answer the million dollar question. I'm not going to be disrespectful to anyone, just pointing out that most people believe one thing about it when the bible states something completely different. Phone Post
9/7/12 7:23 PM
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RoninBT
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Are you asking:
What did they do to warrant exile?
Or
Why was exile the punishment? Phone Post
9/7/12 10:19 PM
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Cappytime
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What they did to warrant exile. Phone Post
9/7/12 10:43 PM
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jrrrrr
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G-d did not want them to eat from the tree of life after they ate the fruit from the tree of good and bad...
G-d wasnt happy that Eve ate it and that Adam ate it but blamed eve for him eating from it instead of taking responsibility.

was that so hard...
9/8/12 5:45 AM
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Cappytime
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jrrrrr - G-d did not want them to eat from the tree of life after they ate the fruit from the tree of good and bad...
G-d wasnt happy that Eve ate it and that Adam ate it but blamed eve for him eating from it instead of taking responsibility.

was that so hard...
Thank you sir for actually reading your bible. Most people I speak to believe they were exiled for eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The punishment for that transgression is listed in Genesis 3:14-3:19. They were exiled to keep them from eating from the tree of life and living forever as seen in Genesis 3:22-3:24. Phone Post
9/8/12 5:51 AM
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Cappytime
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jrrrrr - G-d did not want them to eat from the tree of life after they ate the fruit from the tree of good and bad...
G-d wasnt happy that Eve ate it and that Adam ate it but blamed eve for him eating from it instead of taking responsibility.

was that so hard...
I have a weird line of reasoning here that you may appreciate. They were only forbidden to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. I would assume that they had already eaten from the tree of life since it wasn't forbidden. If this is correct, the tree of life grants everlasting life only as long as you continue to eat from it. Phone Post
9/8/12 9:55 AM
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jrrrrr
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the bible state that g-d exiled them so as to NOT enable them from eating from the tree of life. therefore they had not earem from that tree.
now you can ask...why had they not eaten from that tree previously..


perhaps someone with a stronger background can answer that, as I can not....
9/8/12 11:09 AM
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Grakman
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Cappy, do you believe this story to be literally true?
9/8/12 12:47 PM
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Malvert the Janitor
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What a gloriously beautiful METAPHOR. Phone Post
9/8/12 1:13 PM
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phydeau
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"They were exiled to keep them from eating from the tree of life and living forever as seen in Genesis 3:22-3:24."

You're only telling half the story.

They had eaten from the Tree of Knowledge of Good & Evil, and thus entered a fallen state. They were banished from the Tree of Life to prevent them from living forever IN THEIR FALLEN CONDITION.
9/8/12 1:15 PM
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Cappytime
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Grakman - Cappy, do you believe this story to be literally true?
No, I do not. I think that it's interesting that G-d is speaking to some unnamed entity as an equal in Genesis 3:22. "Behold,the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever." I also think it's interesting that G-d actively prevents us from gaining eternal life. Phone Post
9/8/12 1:15 PM
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phydeau
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Always remember, the God's plan of redemption was fully developed before God ever created Adam & Eve.
9/8/12 1:16 PM
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phydeau
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Grakman - Cappy, do you believe this story to be literally true?

Do you believe God is a liar?
9/8/12 1:31 PM
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Cappytime
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phydeau - "They were exiled to keep them from eating from the tree of life and living forever as seen in Genesis 3:22-3:24."

You're only telling half the story.

They had eaten from the Tree of Knowledge of Good & Evil, and thus entered a fallen state. They were banished from the Tree of Life to prevent them from living forever IN THEIR FALLEN CONDITION.
Genesis 3:14-3:24 never mentions a "fallen state" or "fallen condition." It says "Behold, the man has become like one of us, to know good and evil." Phone Post
9/8/12 1:33 PM
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Cappytime
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phydeau - Always remember, the God's plan of redemption was fully developed before God ever created Adam & Eve.
Why does God ask them questions if he already knows the answer? Phone Post
9/8/12 1:52 PM
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phydeau
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Cappytime - 
phydeau - "They were exiled to keep them from eating from the tree of life and living forever as seen in Genesis 3:22-3:24."

You're only telling half the story.

They had eaten from the Tree of Knowledge of Good & Evil, and thus entered a fallen state. They were banished from the Tree of Life to prevent them from living forever IN THEIR FALLEN CONDITION.
Genesis 3:14-3:24 never mentions a "fallen state" or "fallen condition." It says "Behold, the man has become like one of us, to know good and evil." Phone Post

He spells out the curse, on the serpant, on Eve, on Adam, and all creation. And then comes the promise - To the serpant God says "I will put emnity between your seed and her seed, and you will bruise his heel, but he will bruise your head."

Again, God's plan of redemption, it's all spelled out and from the first few pages.

See, as a fundie that's my thing - The bible is either true or it isn't. So either man & all creation is cursed because of Adam's transgretion (not Eve, Adam) or we aren't.

And if we aren't, then we aren't in need of redemption. and if we aren't in need of redemtion, then we aren't in need of a savior. So Jesus died for nothing.

So if Genisis isn't true, then we're telling God that he send His Son to die for no good reason. Or we're saying that Jesus isn't the Son of God.

And I have a BIG problem with that. See, in John 8:58 Jesus, in Jerusalem, at the Temple & talking to the Pharasies, said "Before Abraham was, I am." So in the one place on earth & talking to the one group of people who cound not possible misunderstand his intent, Jesus claimed to BE the voice from the burning bush. And just in case we missed it John follows up with "Then took they up stones to cast at him."

So there in the Bible someone is claiming to be God come in the flesh. Either he knows isn't and Jesus is lying, or he doesn't know he isn't and he's crazy as a bed bug, or he actually is God.
9/8/12 1:56 PM
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phydeau
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So there we go, either it's all true, or it is unreliable. IMO if any part of the Bible can't be trusted, then the God of the bible can't be trusted and he is unworthy of my worship. Throw the book in the river, eat, drink & be merry for tomorrow we die.
9/8/12 2:06 PM
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Cappytime
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phydeau -
Cappytime - 
phydeau - "They were exiled to keep them from eating from the tree of life and living forever as seen in Genesis 3:22-3:24."

You're only telling half the story.

They had eaten from the Tree of Knowledge of Good & Evil, and thus entered a fallen state. They were banished from the Tree of Life to prevent them from living forever IN THEIR FALLEN CONDITION.
Genesis 3:14-3:24 never mentions a "fallen state" or "fallen condition." It says "Behold, the man has become like one of us, to know good and evil." Phone Post

He spells out the curse, on the serpant, on Eve, on Adam, and all creation. And then comes the promise - To the serpant God says "I will put emnity between your seed and her seed, and you will bruise his heel, but he will bruise your head."

Again, God's plan of redemption, it's all spelled out and from the first few pages.

See, as a fundie that's my thing - The bible is either true or it isn't. So either man & all creation is cursed because of Adam's transgretion (not Eve, Adam) or we aren't.

And if we aren't, then we aren't in need of redemption. and if we aren't in need of redemtion, then we aren't in need of a savior. So Jesus died for nothing.

So if Genisis isn't true, then we're telling God that he send His Son to die for no good reason. Or we're saying that Jesus isn't the Son of God.

And I have a BIG problem with that. See, in John 8:58 Jesus, in Jerusalem, at the Temple & talking to the Pharasies, said "Before Abraham was, I am." So in the one place on earth & talking to the one group of people who cound not possible misunderstand his intent, Jesus claimed to BE the voice from the burning bush. And just in case we missed it John follows up with "Then took they up stones to cast at him."

So there in the Bible someone is claiming to be God come in the flesh. Either he knows isn't and Jesus is lying, or he doesn't know he isn't and he's crazy as a bed bug, or he actually is God.
My problem isn't with the bible itself, it's with the interpretations that the church pushes that infers things that simply aren't there. I believe that everyone should read the bible and understand what is actually there instead of allowing the church to read it for us. The consequences of not reading it for ourselves is people believing things like "there were 2 of every animal on Noah's arc" when the bible implicitly states otherwise. Phone Post
9/8/12 2:13 PM
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Cappytime
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Going to watch some football but I will be back in a little while. Phone Post
9/8/12 2:35 PM
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phydeau
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"My problem isn't with the bible itself, it's with the interpretations that the church pushes that infers things that simply aren't there. I believe that everyone should read the bible and understand what is actually there instead of allowing the church to read it for us."

That's a fundamental tenent of modern protestantism. Centuries ago the streets of Europe ran red with the blood of men who had the temerity to translate the bible into languages the people could read for themselves.

And while good men can differ over "minor" points, we have to remember that Christianity isn't something any of us built in our basement. Fundamental creeds of the church like the Apostle's Creed, the Nicene Creed, Athanasian Creed. Leave that framework and you have left Christianity.
9/8/12 3:02 PM
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Ridgeback
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phydeau - So there we go, either it's all true, or it is unreliable. IMO if any part of the Bible can't be trusted, then the God of the bible can't be trusted and he is unworthy of my worship. Throw the book in the river, eat, drink & be merry for tomorrow we die.

What the Old Testament actuallys says is not how Jesus or the first Christians read it.  This is a point that everybody should consider carefully.  Jews who knew their OT scriptures very well rejected Jesus and did not see him anywhere in their scriptures.  Therefore, reading on a surface level is actually not a Christian way of reading scriptures.  Jesus clearly pointed out that he didn't want most people to understand his teachings and it is also clear that nobody understood the scriptures as a Christian until they were opened up by a qualified teacher.  This is repeated on the Road to Emmaus with the disciples, when St. Paul preaches to the Bereans, and when St. Philip preaches to the Ethiopian eunuch.  In each case people were aware of or reading the OT but did not understand it.  

The surface level understanding of scriptures that Jews have is not the Christian understanding, which is why it is beyond ridiculous for fundamentalists to turn to Jewish teachers in modern times but then ignore the Church that both wrote the NT and put it together into an authoritative canon.  But since when do fundamentalists care about history?  Aren't Americans the only real Christians anyway?
9/8/12 5:45 PM
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Grakman
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phydeau - 
Grakman - Cappy, do you believe this story to be literally true?

Do you believe God is a liar?

Does God have a physical body?
9/8/12 6:35 PM
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phydeau
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Grakman - 
phydeau - 
Grakman - Cappy, do you believe this story to be literally true?

Do you believe God is a liar?

Does God have a physical body?

God the Son does.
9/8/12 8:39 PM
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Grakman
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phydeau - 
Grakman - 
phydeau - 
Grakman - Cappy, do you believe this story to be literally true?

Do you believe God is a liar?

Does God have a physical body?

God the Son does.

When did he obtain the physical body? Has he always had it or did he obtain a physical body when he became incarnate on earth?

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