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Wrestling UnderGround >> Best technique when behind an opponent standing


9/9/12 5:44 AM
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shiznit
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Out of curiosity as its my weakest position, what is the most effective takedown or takedowns when behind an opponent standing with your arms locked. Its a really poor position for myself :0)
9/10/12 5:44 PM
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hawks#1
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I like the "slip on a bannana" technique. It takes no effort and works almost everytime. Phone Post
9/11/12 2:09 AM
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EdgeHoboken
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Edited: 09/11/12 2:44 AM
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Lift and return-

Here is a high school coach demonstrating the lift and return- a technique used widely in collegiate wrestling and in MMA and submission grappling.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AffCzDGk8vI

Often times an opponent in sub grappling tries to go for a counter to your return by reaching back for a Kimora- as can be seen Multiple times when Frankie Edgar fought Ben Henderson (fight 1). Frankie goes to return and Ben threatens a Kimora. The counter to this is rather simple, and as you saw in fight 2- Frankie had worked on this and was able to not be threatened by the Kimora off his return attempts.

Keys to lift and return?

-Hips in, TIGHT
-After the step around, POP your hips to lift your opponent.
9/11/12 2:55 AM
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EdgeHoboken
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Also, be weary of Rolling Knee bars
9/11/12 5:47 AM
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shiznit
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hawks#1 -  I like the "slip on a bannana" technique. It takes no effort and works almost everytime. Phone Post

Whats the slip on a banana technique?
9/11/12 5:49 AM
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shiznit
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EdgeHoboken - Lift and return-

Here is a high school coach demonstrating the lift and return- a technique used widely in collegiate wrestling and in MMA and submission grappling.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AffCzDGk8vI

Often times an opponent in sub grappling tries to go for a counter to your return by reaching back for a Kimora- as can be seen Multiple times when Frankie Edgar fought Ben Henderson (fight 1). Frankie goes to return and Ben threatens a Kimora. The counter to this is rather simple, and as you saw in fight 2- Frankie had worked on this and was able to not be threatened by the Kimora off his return attempts.

Keys to lift and return?

-Hips in, TIGHT
-After the step around, POP your hips to lift your opponent.

Ahhh thanks awesum vid il work on this :0)
10/13/12 12:48 AM
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JLTECH
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I always liked try to get um to turn towards me then dtop down for s low db or single leg they alway s seem more vonorable to the back Phone Post
10/16/12 9:27 PM
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ChipW
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hawks#1 - I like the "slip on a bannana" technique. It takes no effort and works almost everytime. Phone Post
If that's what I think it is be careful with it. A good wrestler will hit a switch on you Phone Post
10/22/12 3:20 AM
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FullyLoadedFists
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Sub Phone Post
12/22/12 12:27 AM
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Root12
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ChipW -
hawks#1 - I like the "slip on a bannana" technique. It takes no effort and works almost everytime. Phone Post
If that's what I think it is be careful with it. A good wrestler will hit a switch on you Phone Post
Came to post this.

Usually went for a lift and return while looking for a half on the way down. Phone Post
12/22/12 5:15 PM
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garagetrainedloser
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My son switches between the lift and return, and a drag/sweep. Out if the sweep he will try to come up fast and keep them on there back it if they turn away he will go rough fit a power half and flanker. Phone Post
1/11/13 7:36 AM
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victorchensky
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come on guys really? the easiest least effort but still very effective takedown when behindis a jumping reverse crabride. not only is it easy normally but it is even easier if they are
leaning back trying to make space to cut off and escape. it also allows you to fall straight into a position where tilts are applicable and if its bjj or mma, it is very easy to establish hooks or at least tilt to sidecontrol.
1/11/13 7:49 AM
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ChipW
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^^^ that's true as long as they don't post on your thighs and get their hips out to one side when your bringing them to the crab ride. If they do that their getting 2 for the reversal and possible back points to.

I like what your talking about but usually try for the lift and return 1st Phone Post
1/12/13 12:59 AM
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victorchensky
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ChipW -  ^^^ that's true as long as they don't post on your thighs and get their hips out to one side when your bringing them to the crab ride. If they do that their getting 2 for the reversal and possible back points to.

I like what your talking about but usually try for the lift and return 1st Phone Post

as with anything it takes practice to get good at it. however, it is a very effective nove with high offensive properyies with very minimal effort. the way to avoid the reversalis to use strong double reverse underhooks in addition to being to use the crabride effectively. the crabride is important in this case for both offense and to stop the opponent from turning into you.
1/12/13 4:43 PM
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Root12
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victorchensky - come on guys really? the easiest least effort but still very effective takedown when behindis a jumping reverse crabride. not only is it easy normally but it is even easier if they are
leaning back trying to make space to cut off and escape. it also allows you to fall straight into a position where tilts are applicable and if its bjj or mma, it is very easy to establish hooks or at least tilt to sidecontrol.
I would agree with you except that is now illegal here in CA for high school. Phone Post
1/12/13 8:06 PM
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victorchensky
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Root12 - 
victorchensky - come on guys really? the easiest least effort but still very effective takedown when behindis a jumping reverse crabride. not only is it easy normally but it is even easier if they are
leaning back trying to make space to cut off and escape. it also allows you to fall straight into a position where tilts are applicable and if its bjj or mma, it is very easy to establish hooks or at least tilt to sidecontrol.
I would agree with you except that is now illegal here in CA for high school. Phone Post

wtf when did they make it illegal?
1/12/13 9:12 PM
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Root12
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Idk. I was in the local has wrestling room and did it to someone and the coach said that it's illegal. He said anything where both feet leave the ground. Fucking bullshit if you ask me. Phone Post
1/17/13 12:07 PM
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Root12
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Lol I asked last night and the guy pretended like he never said that. Guess its not. Phone Post
1/17/13 10:30 PM
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victorchensky
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Root12 -  Lol I asked last night and the guy pretended like he never said that. Guess its not. Phone Post

this is what happens when you have old washed up wrestling coaches that havent competed in decades but still want to feel powerful so they act like they own the place and know everything. a few of them are reasonable and still wrestle at least with their kids, most are just old, washedup, and stubborn. the fact that they constantly change their story only leads more to theconclusion that they are insecure bastards that make terrible roll models.
1/18/13 1:46 AM
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Jorx
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What is a reverse standing crabride?
1/18/13 2:00 AM
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victorchensky
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Jorx - What is a reverse standing crabride?

get behind, lock hands around body and jump your feet to the back of his knees while leaning back
1/18/13 5:29 AM
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Jorx
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Edited: 01/18/13 5:30 AM
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Jorgen Matsi vs Mairon Lepik -77kg from imelik on Vimeo.

Does not always work though:(

- posted a really fun and exhausting nogi match I had in Oct...
1/18/13 6:14 AM
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victorchensky
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Jorx - 

Jorgen Matsi vs Mairon Lepik -77kg from imelik on Vimeo.

Does not always work though:(

- posted a really fun and exhausting nogi match I had in Oct...

to be fair man you didnt do the move all that well, ive done the same myself when under pressure. you shouldve had the bodylock a lot higher up almost jackingit past his armpits and you didnt get the reverse hooks in high enough. the hooks were at calf level when they shouldve been at least knee level. also, he was leaning super far foward to the point if you just forced him foward and down with the bodylock there wouldve been a good chance of him just going down. the way to prevent the opponent of countering the move by leaning foward would be to jack the bodylock higher so you force his upper body to be under your control.

im sure you already know this seeing as you have decent skills yourself and while the statement that the move does not always work is true, however, as with any technique, if not executed to perfection it becomes all the much more likely not to work. also, every tool has a situation it excels at, if the situation is not optimal then other avenues should be taken. just because a wrench cant get to a bolt because it is too big does not mean the tool is broken, in the situation listed above there were better moves to be done. however, as a firm believer in this moves effectiveness, as you too probably are for attempting it as well i still have to stick by it.
1/18/13 5:28 PM
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Jorx
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Edited: 01/18/13 5:30 PM
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Sorry, I didn't want to give the impression that I thought the technique does not work. I think it is very good for gi / nogi setting.

And yes, I sucked while doing it and should've done different stuff:)

(never called it reverse crabride before though)

But yea... we're quite satisfied with the level of wrestling we've managed to aquire without never being real wrestlers.

We try to train with wrestlers as much as possible though and they've been a tremendous influence and help.
1/18/13 9:02 PM
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victorchensky
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Jorx - Sorry, I didn't want to give the impression that I thought the technique does not work. I think it is very good for gi / nogi setting.

And yes, I sucked while doing it and should've done different stuff:)

(never called it reverse crabride before though)

But yea... we're quite satisfied with the level of wrestling we've managed to aquire without never being real wrestlers.

We try to train with wrestlers as much as possible though and they've been a tremendous influence and help.

im glad you took what i stated Constructively. As for your skill in grappling from what I can tell, you do yourself justice. it is refreshing to be able to discuss these techniques in a reasonable and intellectual fashion with skilled individuals as yourself.

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