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UnderGround Forums >> Ben Fowlkes: Brock not HoF worthy


9/9/12 8:27 PM
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Underground Blog
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Over the weekend, Brock Lesnar's best friend and biographer Paul Heyman made the case for his worthiness in the UFC Hall of Fame.

MMAJunkie's Ben Fowlkes begs to differ.

When I read the story by Danny Acosta on Saturday that quoted Lesnar's old pro wrestling running buddy Paul Heyman as saying "of course" Lesnar was worthy of a spot the UFC Hall of Fame after a 5-3 run in a four-year career, I had to stop and read it again.

His case for Lesnar is especially weak. It's the kind of argument only a friend could make, and also the kind that only a friend would accept.

"Five and three?" Heyman said of Lesnar's record. "But look at the five – and look at the three."

Don't mind if I do, Paul. First there's Min-Soo Kim, who also sports losses to Bob Sapp and an over-the-hill Don Frye on his record. Then there's Heath Herring, who, by that point, had been winning one and losing the next like it was part of some schedule he felt compelled to keep. There's also Randy Couture, who had no business fighting at heavyweight, and Frank Mir, who won one and lost one against Lesnar, but somehow only seems to get credit for the latter. Finally, there's Shane Carwin, who might have beaten Lesnar if he'd had better cardio or been smarter about how he used it.

That wraps up his victories as a professional fighter. You add in two first-round TKO losses, and you have his entire body of work. Five and three. A career that spanned just over four years. That's his case for a spot on the wall next to guys like Matt Hughes and Chuck Liddell? Sorry, but I don't see it.

Lesnar fans also love to talk about what he did for the sport and for the UFC simply by hanging around and generating so much interest and attention. The fact that he did this exclusively for his personal gain doesn't get mentioned. Suddenly the unintended consequences of his own career are justification for treating him like one of the greats.

Read entire article...


9/9/12 8:29 PM
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ThinkMMA
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I agree Phone Post
9/9/12 8:33 PM
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Mahakala
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Agreed.
9/9/12 8:35 PM
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Ant124m
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Agreed Phone Post
9/9/12 8:35 PM
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Farewell Brock
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Hard to disagree Phone Post
9/9/12 8:35 PM
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letsgobois
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Is he still in the WWE?
9/9/12 8:38 PM
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FortyKoatz
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Couture, mir and carwin are all legit wins. Saying that though I think HOF is a bit of a reach. He's definitely earned his place in the ufc annals though.
9/9/12 8:40 PM
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Snappy Whistleteeth
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I agree. Phone Post
9/9/12 8:41 PM
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redwhiteandblues
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Agreed!

9/9/12 8:44 PM
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12SixElbow
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Edited: 09/09/12 8:50 PM
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Complete shit writing.

Cutting down Lesnar for winning against Herring, Couture, Mir, and Carwin?
Those were his 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th professional MMA bouts.

That is an absolutely incredible feat.
He won the UFC HW in his 4th fucking fight, and defended it 2x.
Don't cut the guy down for that.

And Randy Couture has no business fighting at HW?
He is the fucking former HW champion, who the fuck are you!?
 
I am not saying I am a huge Lesnar fan, or that he should be in the HOF.
But make your point without cutting down how incredible his short career was.

9/9/12 8:49 PM
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Galanis
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 Agreed also
9/9/12 8:51 PM
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Orcus Knows MMA Better Than Goku
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Of course not. Hof is meaningless if Brock gets in. Phone Post
9/9/12 8:51 PM
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Immaculata
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With no ammy career to start fighting not just seasoned vets but former Champs? I don't know if his skill is HOF worthy, but his courage was.
9/9/12 8:52 PM
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Kostakio
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ThinkMMA - I agree Phone Post
. Phone Post
9/9/12 8:52 PM
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robbie380
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 ....and water is wet.
9/9/12 9:00 PM
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MadmanGadman
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12SixElbow - Complete shit writing.

Cutting down Lesnar for winning against Herring, Couture, Mir, and Carwin?
Those were his 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th professional MMA bouts.

That is an absolutely incredible feat.
He won the UFC HW in his 4th fucking fight, and defended it 2x.
Don't cut the guy down for that.

And Randy Couture has no business fighting at HW?
He is the fucking former HW champion, who the fuck are you!?
 
I am not saying I am a huge Lesnar fan, or that he should be in the HOF.
But make your point without cutting down how incredible his short career was.

I wish I could vote up!

You can say Brock is not HOF worthy because he didn't set records of wins or he didn't fight that many fights. But the guy was amazing, and beat some very tough opponents.

I don't know anyone who is willing to jump in and fight the best the UFC can offer with just one pro fight. Phone Post
9/9/12 9:03 PM
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Galanis
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 I'd like to add though, I 100% expect to see him in the UFC HOF some day. That is because of the politics.. But yeah. There are a ton of guys ahead of him that deserve it way more
9/9/12 9:05 PM
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12SixElbow
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MadmanGadman - 
12SixElbow - Complete shit writing.

Cutting down Lesnar for winning against Herring, Couture, Mir, and Carwin?
Those were his 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th professional MMA bouts.

That is an absolutely incredible feat.
He won the UFC HW in his 4th fucking fight, and defended it 2x.
Don't cut the guy down for that.

And Randy Couture has no business fighting at HW?
He is the fucking former HW champion, who the fuck are you!?
 
I am not saying I am a huge Lesnar fan, or that he should be in the HOF.
But make your point without cutting down how incredible his short career was.

I wish I could vote up!

You can say Brock is not HOF worthy because he didn't set records of wins or he didn't fight that many fights. But the guy was amazing, and beat some very tough opponents.

I don't know anyone who is willing to jump in and fight the best the UFC can offer with just one pro fight. Phone Post

 The funniest thing about the article was the "Couture had no business at HW"
Couture came out of retirement to beat Tim Sylvia, and defend to Gonzaga.
(Tim Sylvia was on a 6 fight win streak, 5 of those in the UFC)

So, he had a little bit of business fighting at HW.




9/9/12 9:08 PM
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Heroic Rise
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12SixElbow - Complete shit writing.

Cutting down Lesnar for winning against Herring, Couture, Mir, and Carwin?
Those were his 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th professional MMA bouts.

That is an absolutely incredible feat.
He won the UFC HW in his 4th fucking fight, and defended it 2x.
Don't cut the guy down for that.

And Randy Couture has no business fighting at HW?
He is the fucking former HW champion, who the fuck are you!?
 
I am not saying I am a huge Lesnar fan, or that he should be in the HOF.
But make your point without cutting down how incredible his short career was.

. Phone Post
9/9/12 9:11 PM
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CoolnDeadly
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Look what happen to Brock when he fought MMA oppenents with Skill....Cain n Overeem....That showed what a joke Brock was. No way he gets in by Beating Mir and Couture.
9/9/12 9:11 PM
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JoeHurley
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duckhuntgangsta - 
kanodogg3 - Ben Fowles is not too bright. Phone Post
I disagree with you and Ben Fowlkes.

Ben is VERY bright and witty, but I disagree with him on this issue.

It's called the Hall of 'Fame' for a reason and Brock Lesner is arguably one of most famous mixed martial artist of all time.

Let's not get tied down in semantics, let's look at the facts:

-Holds the record for most HW title defenses, an honor shared with Randy and Tim
-Quickest rise to the HW title in UFC history
-Greatest PPV draw of all time (somewhere north of 5 million total)
-Headlined Greatest single PPV event draw

Brock Lesnar 100% deserves to be in the HOF. It doesn't matter his motives nor how short his career was. He accomplished in his short career more than every other HW fighter before him. Add on top of the the dramatic return and victory after his illness and it's an incredible story to boot. To deny him is to deny a significant time in UFC history. Phone Post

  Tim Sylvia won the UFC HW title in his 2nd UFC match.  Faster than Brock.

Brock defended the belt twice in a row which Tim also did in addition to winning 5 HW title matches.

Some of the things Brock gets credit for (fast rise to title, high ppv draws) are because fo his fame from the WWE.  It's not a bad thing or a knock on him, but he doesn't get special credit for getting pushed to the title so fast just because other guys had to fight their way up the ranks to even get in the UFC before having to have more fights to get to the same point. 

9/9/12 9:12 PM
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ThinkMMA
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12SixElbow - Complete shit writing.

Cutting down Lesnar for winning against Herring, Couture, Mir, and Carwin?
Those were his 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th professional MMA bouts.

That is an absolutely incredible feat.
He won the UFC HW in his 4th fucking fight, and defended it 2x.
Don't cut the guy down for that.

And Randy Couture has no business fighting at HW?
He is the fucking former HW champion, who the fuck are you!?
 
I am not saying I am a huge Lesnar fan, or that he should be in the HOF.
But make your point without cutting down how incredible his short career was.


  I agree with this also. Good post.
9/9/12 9:14 PM
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12SixElbow
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CoolnDeadly - Look what happen to Brock when he fought MMA oppenents with Skill....Cain n Overeem....That showed what a joke Brock was. No way he gets in by Beating Mir and Couture.

  What is with  you people?

1. Losing to Cain does not make you a JOKE
2. Losing to Overeem does not make you a JOKE
3. Overeem was juiced
4. Brock was coming off a major layoff
5. Brock was coming off major (And multiple) surgeries.

Brock had less than 10 Pro MMA fights, and no solid base of MMA training.
(He jumped directly into the fire).

Brock fought Overeem after a layoff and surgery, with 7 pro MMA fights,
Overeem not only was juiced, but had over 40 pro fights.





9/9/12 9:16 PM
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12SixElbow
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JoeHurley - 
duckhuntgangsta - 
kanodogg3 - Ben Fowles is not too bright. Phone Post
I disagree with you and Ben Fowlkes.

Ben is VERY bright and witty, but I disagree with him on this issue.

It's called the Hall of 'Fame' for a reason and Brock Lesner is arguably one of most famous mixed martial artist of all time.

Let's not get tied down in semantics, let's look at the facts:

-Holds the record for most HW title defenses, an honor shared with Randy and Tim
-Quickest rise to the HW title in UFC history
-Greatest PPV draw of all time (somewhere north of 5 million total)
-Headlined Greatest single PPV event draw

Brock Lesnar 100% deserves to be in the HOF. It doesn't matter his motives nor how short his career was. He accomplished in his short career more than every other HW fighter before him. Add on top of the the dramatic return and victory after his illness and it's an incredible story to boot. To deny him is to deny a significant time in UFC history. Phone Post

  Tim Sylvia won the UFC HW title in his 2nd UFC match.  Faster than Brock.

Brock defended the belt twice in a row which Tim also did in addition to winning 5 HW title matches.

Some of the things Brock gets credit for (fast rise to title, high ppv draws) are because fo his fame from the WWE.  It's not a bad thing or a knock on him, but he doesn't get special credit for getting pushed to the title so fast just because other guys had to fight their way up the ranks to even get in the UFC before having to have more fights to get to the same point. 


  I think he meant fastest run to a UFC title in total career fights?

Tim Might have won the UFC HW title in his second UFC fight, but he was 14 - 0 at the time,
and had been training for 5 years.



9/9/12 9:21 PM
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WALES1
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12SixElbow - Complete shit writing.

Cutting down Lesnar for winning against Herring, Couture, Mir, and Carwin?
Those were his 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th professional MMA bouts.

That is an absolutely incredible feat.
He won the UFC HW in his 4th fucking fight, and defended it 2x.
Don't cut the guy down for that.

And Randy Couture has no business fighting at HW?
He is the fucking former HW champion, who the fuck are you!?
 
I am not saying I am a huge Lesnar fan, or that he should be in the HOF.
But make your point without cutting down how incredible his short career was.


Great post and VTFU!

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