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JKD UnderGround >> evolution of trapping debate


9/10/12 10:21 AM
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banco
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Edited: 09/10/12 10:21 AM
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mid 90's "([wing chun style] trapping works provided you train it enough"

late '90's "([wing chun style] trapping works if you train it in an alive manner"



mid 2000s "trapping works [trapping is now defined to include greco-roman clinch work and thai boxing clinch work and the less said about WC the better]"
9/18/12 4:43 PM
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Siciliano
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Evolution of weapons aliveness debate:

None of that works. Everything must be done with "aliveness".

10 years later, neither one of these harsh critics has ever fought in Dog Brothers or any sparring match.
10/5/12 11:20 PM
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lloydmtz
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Good point.
10/30/12 11:44 PM
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markijkd
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Trapping is just one Tactic of many tactics. It has worked in sport and in the street. What is in question really, "in my opinion" is not denying that trapping is an effective tactic but how do you train in realistically?

M...
11/2/12 9:19 AM
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Joe Maffei
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hi Mark.
by realistic do you meane

1. full contact?
2. in sport OF mma
3. sTREET SELF DEFENSE...VIA WEAPONS?

Can you please be more specific? example?
11/2/12 7:08 PM
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Demitrius Barbito
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So then...

 

So, what Joe said (and I agree)...

Trapping was BS until the mid 2000's...

BAM! That just happened.

(Thw White Stripes start playing as I log out)...

11/3/12 1:35 PM
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Paul Hopkins
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Edited: 11/15/12 7:43 AM
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.
11/6/12 4:19 PM
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Siciliano
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Hi Demi,

I might be getting my US visa soon. Let's meet up and spar (if your knee is OK and if there's no religious/ethical reasons). Let's videotape it and post it here. Same with Wide Panic, Adam Singer, Thornton, SBG, etc.

I'm really out to make a name. And what better way than to go against the "aliveness" authorities and trade blows. If I fail, then well and good. I'll humbly turn the other way around.

Watcha say?
11/7/12 10:48 AM
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Demitrius Barbito
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What Paul said...

11/8/12 1:33 AM
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Adam Singer
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Why are you challenging me to? Phone Post
11/8/12 1:34 AM
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Adam Singer
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And SBG is not a person. And Jethro Tull is not a member of the band. Phone Post
11/8/12 10:00 AM
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Demitrius Barbito
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Siciliano - Hi Demi,

I might be getting my US visa soon. Let's meet up and spar (if your knee is OK and if there's no religious/ethical reasons). Let's videotape it and post it here. Same with Wide Panic, Adam Singer, Thornton, SBG, etc.

I'm really out to make a name. And what better way than to go against the "aliveness" authorities and trade blows. If I fail, then well and good. I'll humbly turn the other way around.

Watcha say?

That's not how it works...

You have to pay professional trainers to work with you "regardless" of what your asking them for.

So, if you want something like that to happen you make phone calls, get prices and act professionally.

You don't call a restraunt and say "Gimme your best food and I'll video tape it and put it on the JKD forum and then we will see..."

11/8/12 12:20 PM
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Siciliano
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Not a challenge. Just a sparring session. Let's roll BJJ and do clinch too while we're at it. I'll learn a lot from you.
11/8/12 12:23 PM
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Siciliano
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Edited: 11/08/12 12:28 PM
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Demi,

So your idea of acting professionally is writing JKD all over your website while discrediting JKD gyms? Then you start criticizing stuff on the forums but when asked if he wanted to spar live to prove his point, you back off and say you have an injured knee and you don't do any ma anymore. Very, very professional and Christian indeed.
11/8/12 12:46 PM
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Demitrius Barbito
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No. I say you gotta pay for training.

 

I said the other stuff months ago...

11/8/12 1:06 PM
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Siciliano
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AS,

I'm fully aware that SBG is an organization, as one of your black belts, John Frankl has trained with our little group in the Philippines.
11/8/12 3:12 PM
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Siciliano
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Edited: 11/08/12 3:12 PM
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What I meant with sparring is using padded sticks and a headgear. No one's going to be injured Demi or Adam. There's a bigger chance of injuring yourself doing breakfalls in BJJ class than sparring with padded sticks.

And Demi - me pay you? LOL. Bring me your number one weapons student and I'll spar him. Who loses gets to pay the other for lessons.
11/8/12 4:15 PM
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Demitrius Barbito
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"""Bring me your number one weapons student and I'll spar him. Who loses gets to pay the other for lessons."""

 

I don't have any students. I haven't trained anyone in almost three years.

11/8/12 6:24 PM
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Paul Hopkins
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11/8/12 8:28 PM
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Adam Singer
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Edited: 11/08/12 9:54 PM
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My gym has and always will have an open door policy. And I will consider the fact that English is not your first language as the reason for why you are going off wrong here.
Adam Phone Post
11/9/12 8:23 AM
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nakmuay26
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Siciliano - Hi Demi,

I might be getting my US visa soon. Let's meet up and spar (if your knee is OK and if there's no religious/ethical reasons). Let's videotape it and post it here. Same with Wide Panic, Adam Singer, Thornton, SBG, etc.

I'm really out to make a name. And what better way than to go against the "aliveness" authorities and trade blows. If I fail, then well and good. I'll humbly turn the other way around.

Watcha say?


what a tool.
11/9/12 10:45 AM
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Joe Maffei
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What seems to be the trouble? There is nothing wrong with asking to spar. There is nothing wrong with refusing to spar. It's like a musician getting together and jamming, either you can make it, or you can't...

Make it easy and you will get results. Next time I'm in georga I will hook up with Adam and hopfully rory, have a beer and talk shop. Explain what I am working on and see if there is interest in the concept.....
If I'm in the PI, I will do the same with sicill, or oregon with paul, or cal with demi....This is how you elvolve, you get ideas and run them past the boys... take the results and comments go back to the lab and go to work for adjustments...

As I get older I have less and less patient ...

Forward pressure, not backward manutia
11/9/12 3:22 PM
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nakmuay26
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Joe,

I wouldn't give him that much credit. You, Demi, Adam, Matt Thornton, and plenty of other guys have been around for a long time, training, helping on the forums, and helping build a better atmosphere for discussing these issues. I wouldn't include what came off as nothing more than a weak, challenge-match concept from Sicilliano as "getting together to jam". He stated he's out to make a name for himself then goes on to mock the people that he would like to help build up his name.

Why not just begin his own thread and modestly ask if anyone could help him get better if he was ever stateside?

I was in a rush earlier when writing. It should have read: what a complete tool.
11/9/12 6:52 PM
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Demitrius Barbito
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nakmuay26 - 
Joe,

I wouldn't give him that much credit. You, Demi, Adam, Matt Thornton, and plenty of other guys have been around for a long time, training, helping on the forums, and helping build a better atmosphere for discussing these issues. I wouldn't include what came off as nothing more than a weak, challenge-match concept from Sicilliano as "getting together to jam". He stated he's out to make a name for himself then goes on to mock the people that he would like to help build up his name.

Why not just begin his own thread and modestly ask if anyone could help him get better if he was ever stateside?

I was in a rush earlier when writing. It should have read: what a complete tool.

nakmuay26 is onto something here. This is why I responded the way I did. 

I have had many people contact me over the years and ask if they could "just come and get an understanding of what I'm doing". They wanted to learn "not make a name for themselves" (especially at the cost of anothers name). I've let people come infor free for an hour or two and work everything from ground to guns. One guy was a criminal psychologist who ended up giving me a 3 hour seminar on criminal psychology/motivation/behavior which helped me add to my psychological game. I gave him a whole day of firearms training the next day for less than half price.

One guy came in once (out of nowhere) and threatened someone who was training and I sprayed him with OC. He went down fast. We helped decontaminate him with Sudecon wipes and gave him water etc. When he was back to normal he apologized and asked if he could come back the next day and train (he would pay full price). I said no. He was a loose cannon and I couldn't trust that he would not go off again. I told him "he was the type we were training to protect ourselves from". Hopefully he "learned something from the experience".

If you present yourself as "a humble student of the martial/combat arts" people will hand you training for free/take the time to talk to you or at least point you in the right direction. If you come across as histile you put yourself in the "tool/loose cannon" camp and you usually get avoided.

11/9/12 8:09 PM
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Joe Maffei
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I kinow what you guys are saying, however many people at times approach a situation, in this case a sparring session with an unclear intention. Often do to excitement or a nervious anticipation, which often leads to mistaken words.

We can bicker over how it was asked or we can get to the root of the question, which in essence is, can I exchange energy with you. And the reason why is irrelevant to the inventor who only cares about results and progress. Anything else is a waist of time, including small talk.

Pay know attention to mean faces and loud talk, focus on distance.

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