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HolyGround >> Possible Jesus was married?


9/19/12 9:15 AM
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770mdm
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 http://www.freep.com/article/20120919/NEWS07/120919009/jesus-wife-ancient-papyrus-fragment

A papyrus fragment from the fourth century contains a phrase in which Jesus refers to "My wife," which a U.S. scholar says is the first evidence supporting the belief among early Christians that he was married, The New York Times reports.

The fragment consists of eight lines of black ink, written in Coptic, which include the phrase. "Jesus said to them, 'My wife ...' " Below it is what the Times calls "a second provocative clause" that reportedly says, "she will be able to be my disciple."

Karen King, a Christian scholar at the Harvard Divinity School, presented the finding today in Rome at the International Congress of Coptic Studies. She said in a statement that the earliest claim that Jesus did not marry is from 200 A.D. Early Christians did not always agree on whether they should marry or be celibate.

The fragment does not prove that Jesus was married or that if he was that it was to Mary Magdalene, according to the draft paper.

Based on the faded papyrus and handwriting, the fragment is likely authentic, Roger Bagnell, director of the Institute for the Study of the Ancient World in New York, said in a statement from Harvard, Bloomberg reports.

King did not identify the owner of the fragment, which is about the size of a business card.

King showed the fragment, enclosed in glass, to the Times,The Boston Globe and Harvard Magazine on Thursday.

In an interview, the Times writes, King "repeatedly cautioned that this fragment should not be taken as proof that Jesus, the historical person, was actually married. The text was probably written centuries after Jesus lived, and all other early, historically reliable Christian literature is silent on the question," she said.

"This fragment suggests that some early Christians had a tradition that Jesus was married," King told the Times. "There was, we already know, a controversy in the second century over whether Jesus was married, caught up with a debate about whether Christians should marry and have sex."

Princeton University religion professor AnneMarie Luijendijk, who co-authored the paper with King, said the fragment's poor condition suggests it was found in a garbage heap, Bloomberg writes.

The Smithsonian Channel will air a special on the discovery Sept. 30, at 8 p.m. ET/PT.


9/19/12 11:28 PM
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quick
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So Kevin Smith was right?
9/20/12 5:29 AM
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DyingBreed
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I'm sure there would be some record of it in the bible by someone who was around him a lot. Like one of the four gospel writers Phone Post
9/20/12 6:48 AM
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TheHawker
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I guess we were past due for another one of these shocking revelations about Jesus, it's been a few years since the last one.

The Jesus burial box, The Gospel of Judas, Da Vinci Code, and now the alleged 4th century gnostic fragment. This one is kind of boring, though, I hope the next one is more titillating.

As an aside, Mormons actually believe Jesus practiced polygamy and had multiple wives.
9/20/12 9:37 AM
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gord96
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Edited: 11/11/12 9:38 PM
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9/26/12 6:31 AM
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CJJScout
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No, he wasn't. More Da Vinci code-esque fantasy.
9/26/12 8:58 AM
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Grakman
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Hmmm... How could he be tempted in every way if he wasn't married? You can't be tempted to commit adultery unless you're married. Phone Post
9/26/12 7:17 PM
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zealot66
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i laugh everytime someone finds something that could 'change christianity forever'. I have a degree in ancient history and studied mostly early christianity and Roman history. On purpose. Here is the deal. The things they arent telling you is that the gnostics were prevalent among the coptics. Nothing wrong about it, just stating that this appears to me to be a gnostic teaching story. you can find early on in the gnostic movement, they deviated from what we recognize as the cannon. 

a scrap of paper that tells about a story is no definitive proof of jesus being married and quite frankly, I have no dog in the fight as most consider me agnostic I guess but NOTHING in the earliest writings of the church mention Jesus being married although he did have close relationships with women. I guess he was one of the first feminists besides all those ladies on the isle of lesbos. 

9/27/12 3:18 PM
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jrrrrr
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My understanding is that the scriptures were written a generation or two after all that happened took place. Some of the writings might have been motivated by politics WHEN they were WRITTEN rather than based on WHAT HAPPENED.

Jesus might have been happlily married for all we know.

The question becomes...do you believe in what he said about how to live and believe...?
9/27/12 4:17 PM
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ridge hand
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Grakman -  Hmmm... How could he be tempted in every way if he wasn't married? You can't be tempted to commit adultery unless you're married. Phone Post

But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. (Matthew 5:28)

But I would have you without carefulness. He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord: But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please his wife. (1 Corinthians 7:32-33)
9/27/12 11:42 PM
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Grakman
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Good point ridge hand, I hadn't considered that verse. It does give rise to a question though. As I understand it, temptation is the thought of sinning, and we resist temptation when we do not commit the act. But here, we see that the mere thought of committing a sin is the same as committing a sin.

So how can one be tempted without sinning, if the mere thought of a sin is not just temptation but a sin itself?

And if Jesus was tempted in every way as we are, yet was without sin, he must have been tempted somehow without the thought of sinning entering his mind. How would that work?
9/28/12 12:08 AM
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ridge hand
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Lust not after her beauty in thine heart; neither let her take thee with her eyelids. (Proverbs 6:25)

Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; (2 Corinthians 10:5)

For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. (1 John 2:16)
9/28/12 5:36 PM
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Grakman
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Those are all good verses, but they don't really address the question or explain the contradiction. Thanks though.
9/29/12 9:25 AM
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zealot66
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Trust me when I say this is most likely a GNOSTIC piece of writing. It is barely relevant to the original stories of jesus. The gnostics had their own agenda and way of dealing with Jesus.

9/29/12 9:41 AM
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gord96
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9/29/12 12:55 PM
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Ridgeback
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While it is "possible" that Jesus was married it is extremely doubtful considering the long historical weight behind him not being so.  The scholar who did this went straight to the press, which is pretty sloppy.  She should have had the dating verified and then published her work and let it work itself out for awhile.  These sensationalist stories not only give people a false impression about how ancient scholarship works, but it tends to feed into a Dan Brownesque view of history whereby everything as a conspiracy by early Christians to cover up the truth.  

9/29/12 12:55 PM
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Ridgeback
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While it is "possible" that Jesus was married it is extremely doubtful considering the long historical weight behind him not being so.  The scholar who did this went straight to the press, which is pretty sloppy.  She should have had the dating verified and then published her work and let it work itself out for awhile.  These sensationalist stories not only give people a false impression about how ancient scholarship works, but it tends to feed into a Dan Brownesque view of history whereby everything as a conspiracy by early Christians to cover up the truth.  

9/29/12 3:54 PM
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ridge hand
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"Possible Jesus was married?"


But I would have you without carefulness. He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord: But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please his wife. (1 Corinthians 7:32-33)

For God speaketh once, yea twice, yet man perceiveth it not. (Job 33:14)
9/29/12 4:12 PM
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DyingBreed
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ridge hand - "Possible Jesus was married?"


But I would have you without carefulness. He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord: But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please his wife. (1 Corinthians 7:32-33)

For God speaketh once, yea twice, yet man perceiveth it not. (Job 33:14)
That is Paul talking about his preference concerning marriage. He also says in context that he who marries is not wrong for doing so.



I'm not saying I think Jesus was married, just that the scriptures you quoted doesn't say anything either way about the subject. Not sure why you quoted it unless you are speaking from the general idea behind it saying that Jesus would have had this mindset, not that it is ABOUT him Phone Post
9/29/12 10:48 PM
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ridge hand
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DyingBreed - 
ridge hand - "Possible Jesus was married?"


But I would have you without carefulness. He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord: But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please his wife. (1 Corinthians 7:32-33)

For God speaketh once, yea twice, yet man perceiveth it not. (Job 33:14)
That is Paul talking about his preference concerning marriage. He also says in context that he who marries is not wrong for doing so.



I'm not saying I think Jesus was married, just that the scriptures you quoted doesn't say anything either way about the subject. Not sure why you quoted it unless you are speaking from the general idea behind it saying that Jesus would have had this mindset, not that it is ABOUT him Phone Post

All scripture is given by inspiration of God (2 Timothy 3:16)

Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be PERFECT...come and FOLLOW ME. (Matthew 19:21)

So then he that giveth her in marriage doeth well; but he that giveth her not in marriage doeth BETTER. (1 Corinthians 7:38)

But I would have you without carefulness. He that is UNMARRIED careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may PLEASE THE LORD: But he that is MARRIED CARETH FOR the things that are of THE WORLD, how he may please his wife. (1 Corinthians 7:32-33)

Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us FROM THIS present EVIL WORLD, according to the will of God and our Father (Galatians 1:4)
9/30/12 1:23 AM
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Grakman
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The Lord God said, “It is NOT GOOD for the man to be ALONE. I will make a helper suitable for him." (Genesis 2:18)

A wife of noble character is her HUSBAND'S CROWN(Proverbs 12:4)

He who finds a WIFE finds what is good and receives FAVOR FROM THE LORD. (Proverbs 18:22)

Houses and wealth are inherited from parents, but a PRUDENT WIFE IS FROM THE LORD. (Proverbs 19:14)

But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, EACH MAN SHOULD HAVE HIS OWN WIFE and each woman her own husband. (1 Corinthians 7:2 )

Let marriage be held in honor among ALL(Hebrews 13:4)
9/30/12 1:24 AM
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Grakman
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Why would it have been a bad thing if Jesus was married?
9/30/12 9:08 AM
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DyingBreed
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ridge hand -
DyingBreed - 
ridge hand - "Possible Jesus was married?"


But I would have you without carefulness. He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord: But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please his wife. (1 Corinthians 7:32-33)

For God speaketh once, yea twice, yet man perceiveth it not. (Job 33:14)
That is Paul talking about his preference concerning marriage. He also says in context that he who marries is not wrong for doing so.



I'm not saying I think Jesus was married, just that the scriptures you quoted doesn't say anything either way about the subject. Not sure why you quoted it unless you are speaking from the general idea behind it saying that Jesus would have had this mindset, not that it is ABOUT him Phone Post

All scripture is given by inspiration of God (2 Timothy 3:16)

Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be PERFECT...come and FOLLOW ME. (Matthew 19:21)

So then he that giveth her in marriage doeth well; but he that giveth her not in marriage doeth BETTER. (1 Corinthians 7:38)

But I would have you without carefulness. He that is UNMARRIED careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may PLEASE THE LORD: But he that is MARRIED CARETH FOR the things that are of THE WORLD, how he may please his wife. (1 Corinthians 7:32-33)

Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us FROM THIS present EVIL WORLD, according to the will of God and our Father (Galatians 1:4)
Rinse, repeat Phone Post
9/30/12 9:09 AM
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DyingBreed
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Grakman - Why would it have been a bad thing if Jesus was married?
It wouldn't have been a bad thing. God can do what he wants ;)


But there would be some record of it for sure since the gospel writers wrote about many other people in his life much less close to Jesus IMO Phone Post
9/30/12 12:40 PM
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ridge hand
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Grakman - The Lord God said, “It is NOT GOOD for the man to be ALONE. I will make a helper suitable for him." (Genesis 2:18)

A wife of noble character is her HUSBAND'S CROWN(Proverbs 12:4)

He who finds a WIFE finds what is good and receives FAVOR FROM THE LORD. (Proverbs 18:22)

Houses and wealth are inherited from parents, but a PRUDENT WIFE IS FROM THE LORD. (Proverbs 19:14)

But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, EACH MAN SHOULD HAVE HIS OWN WIFE and each woman her own husband. (1 Corinthians 7:2 )

Let marriage be held in honor among ALL(Hebrews 13:4)

"Genesis 2:18, Proverbs 12:4, Proverbs 18:22, Proverbs 19:14"


And Israel abode in Shittim, and the people began to commit whoredom with the daughters of Moab. (Numbers 25:1)

And they took their daughters to be their wives, and gave their daughters to their sons, and served their gods. (Judges 3:6)

All these had taken strange wives: and some of them had wives by whom they had children. (Ezra 10:44)

And I find more bitter than death the woman, whose heart is snares and nets, and her hands as bands: whoso pleaseth God shall escape from her; but the sinner shall be taken by her. (Ecclesiastes 7:26)

Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah (Jeremiah 31:31)
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"But [BECAUSE OF] the temptation to sexual immorality, EACH MAN SHOULD HAVE HIS OWN WIFE and each woman her own husband. (1 Corinthians 7:2 )"


It is GOOD for a man NOT to touch a woman. (1 Corinthians 7:1)

But IF they CANNOT contain, LET them marry: for it is BETTER to marry THAN to BURN. (1 Corinthians 7:9)

if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such SHALL have trouble in the flesh: but I SPARE you. (1 Corinthians 7:28)
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"Let marriage be held in honor among ALL(Hebrews 13:4)"


Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife. (1 Corinthians 7:27)

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