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UnderGround Forums >> Is Jones Black Belt Level?


9/23/12 8:25 PM
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OnlyTheStrongSurvive
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Im going to say no. I think 3 of his last 4 submissions came from simply breaking his opponents. Phone Post
9/23/12 8:25 PM
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chawkins
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Is Jones Black Belt Level?


No. And he never will be.
9/23/12 8:25 PM
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MarcusRenatoBlackBelt
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Punch a blackbelt in the face he is a brown belt. Punch him again, he is a purple.





A blackbelt covers 2 inches of your ass, YOU have to cover the rest . -- Royce Gracie






These timeless quotes give great insight on why JJ is a great grappler. Here is another reason...




POSITION before SUBMISSION.
Jones is a great wrestler.


The MMA blueprint for winning fights is by punching you in the face, shooting, taking you down, posturing up , and landing GNP....

examine Jon Jones. He takes you down, HE DOESNT HAVE TO POSTURE UP because his long torso. Great advantage. Landing GNP is easier when your elbow is where most people's fists are. Another great advantage for Jones.

However, there are great disadvantages to a longer body type. Takedown defense is harder for longer legs.

Defending submissions is harder for longer arms, and leglocks would be harder to defend as well.
9/23/12 8:26 PM
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Winston Wolf
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Smith1234 - To get a black belt, you don't have to be high level black belt. You can be lower end black belt.

I think Jones hangs with or beats Shogun, Wandy, little Nog, Vitor, and other "not high level" BJJ black belts in various types of grappling tournments.

Jones would put an ass whooping on 99% of BBs in the USA his weight.
9/23/12 8:27 PM
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uniquetechnique
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Gaidojutsu Black Belt level but not BJJ Black Belt level Yet.
9/23/12 8:28 PM
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D241
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OnlyTheStrongSurvive -  Im going to say no. I think 3 of his last 4 submissions came from simply breaking his opponents. Phone Post

  This is a different point of view than that of my own.

I can respect this view, however let me explain my view.


To me, a black belt means you are pretty bad ass. Bad ass in that when shit gets real, and you're in a fight, having a blackbelt means you can use your grappling ability to dictate and/or win the fight.

Of course in pure Jiu Jitsu, I can understand why he may not be considered a blackbelt b/c as a wrestler, I'm sure JBJ isn't nearly as comfortable off his back as he is when he's on top.

But basically, if you can use your grappling skills to win a fight, and you're doing so against professional fighters, some of which are "black belts" under regular jiu jitsu standards, I think Jon Jones is a blackbelt.
9/23/12 8:34 PM
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Smith1234
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Winston Wolf - 
Smith1234 - To get a black belt, you don't have to be high level black belt. You can be lower end black belt.

I think Jones hangs with or beats Shogun, Wandy, little Nog, Vitor, and other "not high level" BJJ black belts in various types of grappling tournments.

Jones would put an ass whooping on 99% of BBs in the USA his weight.

A lot of people have no idea what it really means to say Black Belt. They think Roger, and even use him as the reason that Jon is not BB level (LOL).

They should be thinking 15 notches below Roger, that is the regular black belt...
9/23/12 8:36 PM
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uniquetechnique
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Edited: 09/23/12 8:43 PM
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A highly skilled striker that can strike on his feet as well as striking on the ground plus, with a BJJ Blue belt and with Wrestling skills would dominate a BJJ Black belt that didn't know how to use BJJ in an MMA bout. BJJ in MMA is totally different, There are a lot of moves you shouldn't try to do against a striker.
9/23/12 8:38 PM
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OnlyTheStrongSurvive
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D241 -
OnlyTheStrongSurvive -  Im going to say no. I think 3 of his last 4 submissions came from simply breaking his opponents. Phone Post

  This is a different point of view than that of my own.

I can respect this view, however let me explain my view.


To me, a black belt means you are pretty bad ass. Bad ass in that when shit gets real, and you're in a fight, having a blackbelt means you can use your grappling ability to dictate and/or win the fight.

Of course in pure Jiu Jitsu, I can understand why he may not be considered a blackbelt b/c as a wrestler, I'm sure JBJ isn't nearly as comfortable off his back as he is when he's on top.

But basically, if you can use your grappling skills to win a fight, and you're doing so against professional fighters, some of which are "black belts" under regular jiu jitsu standards, I think Jon Jones is a blackbelt.
That makes sense. I guess it depends on what you define as blackbelt level. Hes a very good grappler in an mma sense, when you include the strikes and all.

I see him more as having very good guillotine out of scrambles, as many wrestlers do. He can get some weird ones with his height/length too. But in the pure grappling of an mma fight, I don't think hes quite on the level of the real blackbelts. We also don't know how he is off of his back.

Personally, I think he got Bader, Rampage and Vitor to give up or not defend his submissions by just totally breaking them. I'm bot trying to put down any of them either, it speaks to Jones greatness. Phone Post
9/23/12 8:40 PM
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Immaculata
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Immaculata - 
Smith1234 - 
Immaculata - You need to be proficient with the Gi to be a true BB. I don't know the extent of his training using one.

Matt Hughes never traned gi, but many legit people said he was BB level. Jones is nearing that Matt Hughes wrestler/grappler BB level as well.

I can appreciate that, but I stand by my statement. A true Black Belt is proficient in the Gi.

Jones in a GI without a GI would smash most BBs in BJJ.

It goes beyond "smashing" someone. We are talking about knowledge here. To be a true Black Belt in Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu you need to have to be proficient in the Gi.
9/23/12 8:44 PM
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Smith1234
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^^ you seem smart. Stop being so dogmatic. Think beyond the gi. Looks beyond it to the core of what you HAVE seen without the gi. Base your answer on that.

If it is helpful, base it on ADCC Jones vs any of the Pride LHWs who had BJJ black belts.

Put the gi aside, please, for just a moment.
9/23/12 8:45 PM
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Winston Wolf
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Immaculata - 
Winston Wolf - 
Immaculata - 
Smith1234 - 
Immaculata - You need to be proficient with the Gi to be a true BB. I don't know the extent of his training using one.

Matt Hughes never traned gi, but many legit people said he was BB level. Jones is nearing that Matt Hughes wrestler/grappler BB level as well.

I can appreciate that, but I stand by my statement. A true Black Belt is proficient in the Gi.

Jones in a GI without a GI would smash most BBs in BJJ.

It goes beyond "smashing" someone. We are talking about knowledge here. To be a true Black Belt in Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu you need to have to be proficient in the Gi.

dude i trained at a high level BJJ club for years.I stand bye Jones would beat most blackbelts in BJJ with GI.
9/23/12 8:47 PM
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uniquetechnique
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Immaculata - 
Winston Wolf - 
Immaculata - 
Smith1234 - 
Immaculata - You need to be proficient with the Gi to be a true BB. I don't know the extent of his training using one.

Matt Hughes never traned gi, but many legit people said he was BB level. Jones is nearing that Matt Hughes wrestler/grappler BB level as well.

I can appreciate that, but I stand by my statement. A true Black Belt is proficient in the Gi.

Jones in a GI without a GI would smash most BBs in BJJ.

It goes beyond "smashing" someone. We are talking about knowledge here. To be a true Black Belt in Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu you need to have to be proficient in the Gi.

People don't understand that with a Gi, you have to be more techinical. The great thing in a Gi is, You excercise your mind a lot more since there is more you have to do with a gi. What No-Gi practitioners hate the most about the gi..is the "handles" and most of the time when they try gi for the first time..they immediately hate it and decide not to enter the Gi world.
9/23/12 8:49 PM
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Smith1234
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More BJJ guys should learn to wrestle and grapple no gi if they want to do MMA. Gi is overrated.
9/23/12 8:50 PM
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Smith1234
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I also don't think that high level BJJ w/ the gi is more technical than, for example, high level wrestling in a singlet.
9/23/12 8:50 PM
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Random Hero
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 MMA is not BJJ. he would not have a chance in a BJJ tournament against a BB. just because he beats a BB in MMA doesnt mean he beats a BB in jiu jitsu. thats like saying Randy is better at boxing than Toney because he beat him in MMA. they are two different sports. MMA grappling isnt even close to no gi grappling nvm actual brazilian jiu jitsu. its a whole different game when you add strikes. untill they start ranking MMA fighters with belt colours, he is not a black belt. in my opinion his striking is a bigger asset to his ground game than his grappling is.

in short..... MMA is not BJJ!
9/23/12 8:50 PM
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Winston Wolf
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uniquetechnique - 
Immaculata - 
Winston Wolf - 
Immaculata - 
Smith1234 - 
Immaculata - You need to be proficient with the Gi to be a true BB. I don't know the extent of his training using one.

Matt Hughes never traned gi, but many legit people said he was BB level. Jones is nearing that Matt Hughes wrestler/grappler BB level as well.

I can appreciate that, but I stand by my statement. A true Black Belt is proficient in the Gi.

Jones in a GI without a GI would smash most BBs in BJJ.

It goes beyond "smashing" someone. We are talking about knowledge here. To be a true Black Belt in Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu you need to have to be proficient in the Gi.

People don't understand that with a Gi, you have to be more techinical. The great thing in a Gi is, You excercise your mind a lot more since there is more you have to do with a gi. What No-Gi practitioners hate the most about the gi..is the "handles" and most of the time when they try gi for the first time..they immediately hate it and decide not to enter the Gi world.

put a GI on Jones and take him to your local BJJ club and watch him run a clinic
9/23/12 8:51 PM
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uniquetechnique
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Winston Wolf - 
Immaculata - 
Winston Wolf - 
Immaculata - 
Smith1234 - 
Immaculata - You need to be proficient with the Gi to be a true BB. I don't know the extent of his training using one.

Matt Hughes never traned gi, but many legit people said he was BB level. Jones is nearing that Matt Hughes wrestler/grappler BB level as well.

I can appreciate that, but I stand by my statement. A true Black Belt is proficient in the Gi.

Jones in a GI without a GI would smash most BBs in BJJ.

It goes beyond "smashing" someone. We are talking about knowledge here. To be a true Black Belt in Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu you need to have to be proficient in the Gi.

dude i trained at a high level BJJ club for years.I stand bye Jones would beat most blackbelts in BJJ with GI.

Winston, question for you though. Has Jones ever tried the gi on? even once?
Diego Sanchez was training with us a while back during his UF days and stopped by Laimons many times...He put the Gi on..what do you think happened? He go man handled. Big Time.
If you put Jones in a Pure sport Jiu Jitsu match with a BJJ Black Belt, He would get put to sleep with even just a front choke..he would definitely hate the "handles" because they would be sweeping him left and right. Same went for Joe Daddy Stevenson when he put on the Gi as well.
9/23/12 8:53 PM
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Winston Wolf
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Random Hero -  MMA is not BJJ. he would not have a chance in a BJJ tournament against a BB. just because he beats a BB in MMA doesnt mean he beats a BB in jiu jitsu. thats like saying Randy is better at boxing than Toney because he beat him in MMA. they are two different sports. MMA grappling isnt even close to no gi grappling nvm actual brazilian jiu jitsu. its a whole different game when you add strikes. untill they start ranking MMA fighters with belt colours, he is not a black belt. in my opinion his striking is a bigger asset to his ground game than his grappling is.

in short..... MMA is not BJJ!

phhhhhh Jones would put a clinic if he enterend a BJJ tourney.You think hed be an easy match cause a guy wears a belt that is black.Jacare couldnt beat Coutore and Jones grappling blows Coutores away and Jacare is among the best at BJJ
9/23/12 8:53 PM
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Smith1234
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Random Hero -  MMA is not BJJ. he would not have a chance in a BJJ tournament against a BB. just because he beats a BB in MMA doesnt mean he beats a BB in jiu jitsu. thats like saying Randy is better at boxing than Toney because he beat him in MMA. they are two different sports. MMA grappling isnt even close to no gi grappling nvm actual brazilian jiu jitsu. its a whole different game when you add strikes. untill they start ranking MMA fighters with belt colours, he is not a black belt. in my opinion his striking is a bigger asset to his ground game than his grappling is.

in short..... MMA is not BJJ!

But no gi grappling is close to wrestling, which is why non-elite/world level wrestlers like Matt Hughes and Mark Kerr can do well or very well at ADCC against BJJ guys.
9/23/12 8:54 PM
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Kostakio
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I wouldn't say he's a black belt but high purple or even a brown belt for sure. But of course, with his athleticism and confidence, he sure seems like it.

I still can't wait for him to lose though...

:) Phone Post
9/23/12 8:55 PM
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Gomrad
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Gold Belt > Black Belt Phone Post
9/23/12 8:56 PM
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Smith1234
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^^^ what purple belt do you know that would be Jon at anything grappling related?
9/23/12 8:58 PM
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Gomrad
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Caught_clean - Matt and Jon didnt learn submissions and submission defence from wrestling though. They have trained jiu jitsu weather they, or you want to admit it. Its like when Matt beat Royce and claimed he didnt use any jiu jitsu even though he took the back with hooks, and was arm locking him from halfguard haha.

BJJ isnt the end all of grappling though, and lets not forget a BJJ black belt doesnt factor in getting elbowed in the face etc, which Jon can use to open up guys on the ground, its part of his grappling game and he kills people with it. Maybe hes not a BJJ black belt skill wise, but he uses other ways to make his grappling strong.
Hughes flatten out Royce with "both hooks" or "double boots" is a matter of your point of reference Phone Post
9/23/12 8:59 PM
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Winston Wolf
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uniquetechnique - 
Winston Wolf - 
Immaculata - 
Winston Wolf - 
Immaculata - 
Smith1234 - 
Immaculata - You need to be proficient with the Gi to be a true BB. I don't know the extent of his training using one.

Matt Hughes never traned gi, but many legit people said he was BB level. Jones is nearing that Matt Hughes wrestler/grappler BB level as well.

I can appreciate that, but I stand by my statement. A true Black Belt is proficient in the Gi.

Jones in a GI without a GI would smash most BBs in BJJ.

It goes beyond "smashing" someone. We are talking about knowledge here. To be a true Black Belt in Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu you need to have to be proficient in the Gi.

dude i trained at a high level BJJ club for years.I stand bye Jones would beat most blackbelts in BJJ with GI.

Winston, question for you though. Has Jones ever tried the gi on? even once?
Diego Sanchez was training with us a while back during his UF days and stopped by Laimons many times...He put the Gi on..what do you think happened? He go man handled. Big Time.
If you put Jones in a Pure sport Jiu Jitsu match with a BJJ Black Belt, He would get put to sleep with even just a front choke..he would definitely hate the "handles" because they would be sweeping him left and right. Same went for Joe Daddy Stevenson when he put on the Gi as well.

im not going to name names but a certain MMA fighter in a lower weight than Jones walked into a prominant school I trained at .First day there he was smashing folks with GI without GI .You really think the average blackbelt can beat Jones in BJJ.Maybe hed lose against the very best But id bet anything u bring in 30 blackbelts his weight and have Jones have a BJJ match against them.I say hed win 28 to 30 times in BJJ.Dude Ive rolled with many blackbelts and not that I beat them but I dont think Id last a minute with Jones

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