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UnderGround Forums >> Is Jones Black Belt Level?

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9/28/12 8:14 PM
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Winston Wolf
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equally sized purples sub JOnes ? pallleeeeese
9/28/12 8:15 PM
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Winston Wolf
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Hughes subbed Almieda who else ? u said 4 or 5
9/28/12 8:36 PM
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kevinchhay
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The point is Matt Hughes would sub Almeida, Renzo and Royce over again if they fought (I think that's what he's trying to explain)

Hughes accredits most of his experience to Wrestling

9/28/12 8:43 PM
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Winston Wolf
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Hughes didnt sub Renzo or Royce but did win convinsingly.Jones is 25 and has plenty of subs against high level fighters.And Im sure his grappling game will only get better Dont understnd why hes being put under a microscope
9/28/12 8:46 PM
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kevinchhay
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Edited: 09/28/12 8:46 PM
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Sorry, I'm tired I believe he would though just my opinion

9/28/12 8:56 PM
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Ministry of Truth
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kevinchhay - 

The point is Matt Hughes would sub Almeida, Renzo and Royce over again if they fought (I think that's what he's trying to explain)

Hughes accredits most of his experience to Wrestling


If the submission comes after stunning them, that still doesn't make him on their level, grappling-wise.

I know if I were to hit Mariusz Pudzianowski in the head with a baseball bat full force, I could lift more than him right at that moment. Does that mean I am as strong as him?
9/28/12 9:03 PM
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kevinchhay
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Edited: 09/28/12 9:03 PM
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Now, if they were just grappling I see Hughes scoring the takedown and not getting tapped

 

Fowler went against Renzo and beat him I never got a chance to go against him but I was close on more than one occassion

9/28/12 9:09 PM
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kevinchhay
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I consider punches a submission I think that's where symantex gets involved

9/28/12 9:16 PM
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kevinchhay
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Josh Barnett won Mundials am I correct? CSW represent

9/28/12 9:53 PM
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Smith1234
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Even though MMA = / = BJJ, thought it was interesting to compare Jon's UFC sub list to top LHWs, from BJJ BBs to unranked BJJ guys. Maybe it is hard to get these subs, even if you beat someone up first.

Jones (25 years old) - Jake Obrien, Bader, Jackson, Machida, Vitor (excluded 1 pre-UFC)

Vitor (35) - Telligman, Joe Charles (this was the no striking fight I believe), Bobby Southworth, Anthony Johnson. Only subbed by Jon and Overeem

Machida (34) - Mike McDonald, Sokoudjou. Only subbed by Jon Jones.

Arona (34) Kanehara, Ignatov.

Wandy (36) - Dirty Bob

Shogun (30) - Randleman. Subbed by Babalu and Forrest

Little Nog (36) - Fugi, Imamura, Nak, Hendo

Chuck, Hendo, Randy - not close even combined.

This is just a sampling.

 

9/28/12 9:54 PM
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Smith1234
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Does Jon already have the best list of sub victims in the history of the MMA at 205?

9/28/12 10:02 PM
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kevinchhay
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Edited: 09/28/12 10:09 PM
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Does Matt Hughes think George St. Pierre is a good Wrestler? No, he publicly stated so

I don't think Canada would want him to Wrestle for their Olympic Team if he wasn't good or anyone would entertain the idea

Bj Penn got taken down and severely outwrestled by GSP despite BJ Penn being known for his anti-wrestling ability

Funniest part is Matt Hughes said BJ should've won against GSP and Josh Koscheck would outwrestle GSP

GSP got taken down by Koscheck first round and then he recovered and got a double leg takedown on Koscheck 4th round

Josh Koscheck said he doesn't think Matt Hughes can take him in wrestling

Do you see where I'm getting at here?

We all have our own opinions

9/28/12 10:03 PM
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Winston Wolf
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agreed opinions mean nothing once the match starts
9/29/12 12:20 AM
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WestsideStrangler
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GladiatorGannon - 
WestsideStrangler - 
GladiatorGannon - 
dlong949 - What about Kimbo Slice?

Not the same caliber as these guys. Would win white belt divisions and most blues on athleticism and strength, lose against solid purples/elite blues.

As for myself - I won the NAGA World Title in the Intermediate Division...and again at the Advanced Division. The level of grappling in the UFC is so high that even many of the "bad" grapplers at that level would horribly trounce the "good" grapplers at your gym. Not the elite grappling competitors, but a guy you think is "good" at grappling in your area might be horribly manhandled by those guys.

Funny you say that cuz 99% of the time I watch the UFC I think the ground sucks shit and that's why al,ost every single fighter fights for their life not to go to the ground.  Or when they get there they fight for their life ot get back up.


All due respect to the great Chris Brennan, but where exactly are you going with that? If you're fighting for your life to not go to the ground, it's because the other guys ground game is so good. Likewise for trying to get up. Why the heck do you think the guy wants to get up so bad? It's the UFC, if someone like Nog has you down, it's usually a good idea to get up...even if you're "blackbelt level" :)

First off I nevr said I was great.  Second off there are just as many BB's trying to keep it on the feet.  It's a sport now and MMA is the style.  BB doesn't mean a ton in the cage anymore.unless you happen to land in a perfect position. otherwise the guy is climbing the cage like he's escaping a shark tank to get away from you.

9/29/12 1:28 AM
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GladiatorGannon
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First off I never said I was great.



You didn't, I did. You are a legitimate Old School Badass UFC/Pride/Shooto vet that took former champ Militech to a draw. I also liked your instructional tapes and got a lot out of them.
9/29/12 2:20 AM
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Bisping decisioned my SN
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priestcraft - No, i dont think so. I would say he's "google smart" when it comes to bjj. He probably knows all the general bjj moves and how to execute them, but the idiosyncrasies and muscle memory that only comes from years of bjj he can't possibly have. Anytime someone becomes a BB after 2-3yrs, i cringe.
I think your spot on... but obviously that's not to say that in the cage he can't submit bb by using all the diff tools he has. Phone Post
9/29/12 2:55 PM
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kevinchhay
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I'd have to say Jon Jones is the same level because he would compete on the same even platform

Tito Ortiz doesn't even rep Jiu-Jitsu but did very well in ADCC (Bronze like Vitor) and went against Ricardo Arona, Matt Hughes and so on....

They would matched him up against other Black Belt and Black Belt Level guys

9/29/12 2:58 PM
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kevinchhay
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Edited: 09/29/12 2:58 PM
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http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1326784-tito-ortiz-to-jon-jones-i-stood-up-for-you-when-no-one-else-did

9/29/12 3:30 PM
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kevinchhay
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Arguing he's not a BJJ Black Belt is not the OP

Smith1234 is asking if he's on that same playing field

Jon Jones doesn't know all the stuff that x amount other BJJ Black Belts know and maybe he never will

Marcelo Garcia probably knows some things other Black Belts will never know

Jones will know things other Wrestlers, BJJers will never know or utilize

There's no Belt Ranking is Sambo unless you are awarded Honorary by their Government

Where would you place them in ADCC?

9/29/12 3:35 PM
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kevinchhay
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Edited: 01/28/13 5:20 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9cEr2SIzm7o

Flying Omaplata

9/30/12 12:59 PM
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WestsideStrangler
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GladiatorGannon - 
First off I never said I was great.



You didn't, I did. You are a legitimate Old School Badass UFC/Pride/Shooto vet that took former champ Militech to a draw. I also liked your instructional tapes and got a lot out of them.

Thank you and sorry thought you were being sarcastic

9/30/12 1:38 PM
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kevinchhay
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Edited: 01/28/13 5:25 PM
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I've been to some of your fights always looked up to you!

9/30/12 3:07 PM
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WestsideStrangler
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Me?

9/30/12 6:29 PM
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Wasa-B
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9/30/12 6:36 PM
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Gomrad
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Wasa-B -


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