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BJJGround Forum >> Not to nitpick but re: World Champion


10/21/12 4:52 PM
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kying418
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^

Unless you split the championship with teammates...then you might have a lot less matches.

IE. Alberto Crane saying he is a world champion from 2002...but I'm not sure how many matches he had as first-3rd place were all Gracie Barra teammates.
10/21/12 9:09 PM
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GIBB0
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Calibur1980 -
GIBB0 -

Just for another perspective;

If you entered a state spelling competition in elementary school and won would you call yourself a state spelling champion?

I think most people would.

But the top university students in the state would most likely destroy you, so how can you call yourself state champion?

I think that if you are the world champion for your division then you have won a world championship.

(I just woke up so this might not make sense)

People like you always leave out the fact that belts are completely arbitrary.

You can't compare belts to something clearly definable like age and gender.

If you are the blue belt world champ it just means your coach needed to promote you along time ago. Phone Post
But if you're a blue belt then that's the rank allocated to you. There's nothing you can do about that.

Also, it definitely doesn't mean you were overdue your purple if you win at blue. I feel like that's an excuse for people who lose, saying the other guy should have been promoted long ago.

Do you really think that every winner has a coach who is deliberately holding someone back to get team points? Do you really think every winners coach is a bad sport?

Some people win without having a fully developed game at that level. They may be great in some areas but be weak in others. Often they haven't done there time at that belt and also wouldn't be eligible to compete at the next belt if promoted too quickly. Phone Post
10/21/12 9:26 PM
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elitecmbt
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Just curious. Anyone on here won a world championship at any level. If so, what's your feelings on winning at the lower levels or master/ seniors? Phone Post
10/21/12 9:57 PM
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graciesrule
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The problem with the Mundials or any other worlds where you pay to enter and not have it where you qualify at regional, then national levels is why BJJ will never be in the Olympics. No doubt your black belt medalist are the best in the world but how it is set up needs to change. Look at wrestling and Judo at the World and Olympic level, you can't just show up and compete. And in Judo there is no belt divisions, only weight. This is the route BJJ needs to go in the future. Not make Carlos Jr richer with high entrance fee's. Until BJJ is bigger in Europe, Russia, Japan I doubt this will happen. Maybe in 25 years or so.
10/21/12 10:03 PM
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Hillary
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10/22/12 1:57 AM
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CompanyBlue
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Kying,
I know for sure that there are adults winners at black belt who would lose to the masters winners at the same division. Do you think the adult would win 9 out of 10? Masters starts at only 30 years old right? There are 30 years olds with 20 years of training and guys winning the adults with 5 or 6 years total. I might have to do that vote down thing on you lol
10/22/12 2:01 AM
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kying418
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^ I dont agree with you- unless you conside Xande an adult masters winner. And, even with him, one could argue that he cannot beat Rodolfo Viera.

Who else do you think in the Masters division can beat a current adult champion?
10/22/12 2:16 AM
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CompanyBlue
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HolyAvengerP5 - 
graciesrule - The problem with the Mundials or any other worlds where you pay to enter and not have it where you qualify at regional, then national levels is why BJJ will never be in the Olympics. No doubt your black belt medalist are the best in the world but how it is set up needs to change. Look at wrestling and Judo at the World and Olympic level, you can't just show up and compete. And in Judo there is no belt divisions, only weight. This is the route BJJ needs to go in the future. Not make Carlos Jr richer with high entrance fee's. Until BJJ is bigger in Europe, Russia, Japan I doubt this will happen. Maybe in 25 years or so.

how is this a problem?

please go through the men's BB divisions and tell who did not win gold that should have?

you think joe schmo BB will win it because there are no trials? lol

the best in the division win consistently. can we please stop bitching about this. just go shoe shopping and watch the oprah channel instead

It waters down the competition. Let's say a great bb gets matched with a very low level one in the first round and smokes him, it happens all the time. That low level bb wouldn't have even been allowed to compete if he had to qualify somehow. Then in round two, the great bb gets another easy win because the bracket next to him happened to pair up two lowly regarded bbs. Just like that the great bb sleepwalked his way into round 3 without beating a good bb. There are always going to be mismatches but the legitimacy of a world championship would be so much greater if qualifying took more than getting an id card and a registration fee. The ibjjf should do qualifiers if they are going to call it the worlds, they could make more money running those events and raise the legitimacy of it so why not?
10/22/12 2:20 AM
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graciesrule
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Edited: 10/22/12 2:31 AM
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The problem is some of us would like to see BJJ taken to the next level and be in the olympics. But the rules need to be tweeked. This get a 1 pt lead or an advantage and stall is a joke.Really there has never been a controversy with IBJJF ref? ok, lol. world championships you should have to pay a ridiculous amount to enter, oh and by the way the majority of the Gracie family agree's with this in case you forgot who founded this art. This is not what Jiu Jitsu is suppose to be.
10/22/12 3:19 AM
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JSho
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kying418 -
JSho -  None of them have a single black belt ibjjf Mundials title but...
-Rene took black belt gold at the last copa do Mundo in 2007
-vitor took black belt gold at the Copa do Mundo in 2003 (I think)
-Galvao closed out twice at rooster at the ibjjf Mundials 97 and 98 with NU teammates but Robson Moura and someone else, Marcelo Ferreira maybe, took gold in those years, no joint firsts at the Mundials...

so it's reasonable but not entirely accurate to call them world champs. Phone Post

That's exactly why I think some sort of across the board standards should be in place.

Heck, even legends like Robson Moura and Andre Galvao sometimes include their world championships at lower belts when counting their # of world championships.
Yes, Moura generally says 7 time iirc but that includes a purple belt Mundials title and a Copa do Mundo black belt title as well as 5 black belt Mundials titles. Phone Post
10/22/12 3:31 AM
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dokomoy
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CompanyBlue - Hockey, basketball, and I'm sure soccer and other sports have World Championships for people who aren't anywhere close to being the best in the world. Junior world championships, 19 and under, 23 and under etc. these are world championships for people at a certain age group only. It's somewhat comparable right? There are other sports who do amateur worlds too.

I do agree with what y'all are saying though, but I know the difference like all of you do so I don't let it bug me these days. The ibjjf worlds are not really world championships either. There should be qualifying to enter or invitations based on performances in other events, not just entrance based on being able to write a check. The way it is now lowers the quality of competition but it's all about the money so of course it's going to be open to anybody. Anybody else agree with me on any of this? How come one guy can win 1 match total and be world champion in a divison, while another guy had to go through 5 matches? The whole process is profitable but pathetic considering its the worlds. So many say winning brasileiros is tougher than mundials.

I am thinking of promoting y a couple 70 year olds with no training to purple bet and having the, enter the worlds. Nobody else will be in their division so one will become a world champion without having ever trained and the other one will be a world silver medalist.

There's no Masters/Seniors division at Worlds at any belt except white....
10/27/12 1:05 PM
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Bjjudo
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dokomoy -
CompanyBlue - Hockey, basketball, and I'm sure soccer and other sports have World Championships for people who aren't anywhere close to being the best in the world. Junior world championships, 19 and under, 23 and under etc. these are world championships for people at a certain age group only. It's somewhat comparable right? There are other sports who do amateur worlds too.

I do agree with what y'all are saying though, but I know the difference like all of you do so I don't let it bug me these days. The ibjjf worlds are not really world championships either. There should be qualifying to enter or invitations based on performances in other events, not just entrance based on being able to write a check. The way it is now lowers the quality of competition but it's all about the money so of course it's going to be open to anybody. Anybody else agree with me on any of this? How come one guy can win 1 match total and be world champion in a divison, while another guy had to go through 5 matches? The whole process is profitable but pathetic considering its the worlds. So many say winning brasileiros is tougher than mundials.

I am thinking of promoting y a couple 70 year olds with no training to purple bet and having the, enter the worlds. Nobody else will be in their division so one will become a world champion without having ever trained and the other one will be a world silver medalist.

There's no Masters/Seniors division at Worlds at any belt except white....
False.

There is masters, and senior for worlds on Nov 3/4 Phone Post
10/27/12 5:47 PM
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JSho
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Bjjudo -
dokomoy -
CompanyBlue - Hockey, basketball, and I'm sure soccer and other sports have World Championships for people who aren't anywhere close to being the best in the world. Junior world championships, 19 and under, 23 and under etc. these are world championships for people at a certain age group only. It's somewhat comparable right? There are other sports who do amateur worlds too.

I do agree with what y'all are saying though, but I know the difference like all of you do so I don't let it bug me these days. The ibjjf worlds are not really world championships either. There should be qualifying to enter or invitations based on performances in other events, not just entrance based on being able to write a check. The way it is now lowers the quality of competition but it's all about the money so of course it's going to be open to anybody. Anybody else agree with me on any of this? How come one guy can win 1 match total and be world champion in a divison, while another guy had to go through 5 matches? The whole process is profitable but pathetic considering its the worlds. So many say winning brasileiros is tougher than mundials.

I am thinking of promoting y a couple 70 year olds with no training to purple bet and having the, enter the worlds. Nobody else will be in their division so one will become a world champion without having ever trained and the other one will be a world silver medalist.

There's no Masters/Seniors division at Worlds at any belt except white....
False.

There is masters, and senior for worlds on Nov 3/4 Phone Post
Thats the nogi, He means the ibjjf gi Mundials, where there are no masters seniors etc for coloured belts, there are two gi masters and seniors championships now, one in too and a new one in the US. Phone Post
10/27/12 10:35 PM
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crotchshot
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Calibur1980 - 
GIBB0 -

Just for another perspective;

If you entered a state spelling competition in elementary school and won would you call yourself a state spelling champion?

I think most people would.

But the top university students in the state would most likely destroy you, so how can you call yourself state champion?

I think that if you are the world champion for your division then you have won a world championship.

(I just woke up so this might not make sense)

People like you always leave out the fact that belts are completely arbitrary.

You can't compare belts to something clearly definable like age and gender.

If you are the blue belt world champ it just means your coach needed to promote you along time ago. Phone Post

Has Edwin Najmi won worlds at blue? I believe he spent the minimum amount of time at blue (by IBJJF standards).

Same with that other kid that switched from Saulo's to Atos. I believe he won worlds at blue. Once he met the IBJJF age requirement for purple, he was promoted right away.

Jordan Schultz won mundials at brown after training like 5 years, I believe.

I get your point though, a lot of the guys winning at lower levels have been at their rank a long time, but there are quite a few who didn't.

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