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Canada UnderGround >> How Cobrinha Made It Into Canada


10/21/12 1:57 AM
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Don Whitefield
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After hearing that so many Grappling Stars were refused entry especially at YVR we had no problem at all bringing Cobrinha in with this simple Invitation Letter:

To Whom is may concern,
I am inviting Rubens Charles Maciel to give two seminars at two of my company’s location In Port Coquitlam and Vancouver on October 21st , 2012.

Rubens is a multiple World Champion in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and he is a uniquely well spoken fighter with unique skills. We are very lucky to have him with us to speak about Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and train us in the latest techniques during the two seminars. My company will pay him $________ for his work and effort.

I have tried to apply for a temporary work permit but have been told by Immigration Canada that Rubens definitely falls under the commercial speaker section of the law especially since the seminars last only one day.

Please find below the relevant section of the Citizen and Immigration Canada website from the section titled: Working temporarily in Canada: Jobs that do not require a work permit.

“Public speakers
Guest speakers, commercial speakers or seminar leaders can speak or deliver training in Canada without a work permit as long as the event is no longer than five days.”
Source: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/work/apply-who-nopermit.asp#speaker

I have also confirmed with the local Border Guards that there should be no problem for Rubens Charles Maciel to visit Canada for the one day to lead these seminars based on this law.

I hope that this satisfies your requirements. If you have any more questions about Rubens visit to our club please do not hesitate to call me at _________.

He simply showed the letter to Immigration officials and after a short wait they let him go. I hope that will eliminate the cases where athletes are put back on the plane in the future.
10/21/12 2:51 AM
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bravo13
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Thanks for sharing that. I bet it will help some folks get through customs a little smoother.
10/21/12 4:08 PM
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Stephan Kesting
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That's awesome. Should help a lot of
Other guys get in. Thanks for sharing Don! Phone Post
10/21/12 5:23 PM
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Dougie
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TTTeh

10/22/12 10:53 AM
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deepu
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Thank you for that! Hopefully this applies for Quebec too.
10/22/12 11:37 AM
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aed333
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deepu - Thank you for that! Hopefully this applies for Quebec too.

It's federal law. CBSA is Canada-wide and should treat immigration the same way throuhout canada
10/22/12 2:07 PM
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Phil999
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aed333 - 
deepu - Thank you for that! Hopefully this applies for Quebec too.

It's federal law. CBSA is Canada-wide and should treat immigration the same way throuhout canada

Your at the whim of the immigration officer.
10/22/12 3:00 PM
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scalesaj
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I have heard of guys having issues but I never had an issue bring guys to my gym! And I have had allot.

But good to see a template for invitation letter!

AJ
11/26/12 12:52 PM
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deepu
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Heel Hooker - 
Phil999 - 
aed333 - 
deepu - Thank you for that! Hopefully this applies for Quebec too.

It's federal law. CBSA is Canada-wide and should treat immigration the same way throuhout canada

Your at the whim of the immigration officer.

^This. It's great to take the extra effort to do the letter but at the end of the day they just make up the rules as they go.

Unfortunately this is true. This weekend we had our coach turned back at the border because the border guard said he did not fall under the speaker category. Major suckage. There has to be a way to guarantee entry.
11/26/12 4:59 PM
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Don Whitefield
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I agree that many immigration officers make decisions based on what they remember and that they are not having the exact text of the law on them. If they refused entry before or saw their colleagues do so they will probably do so again.

YVR is notorious for refusing BJJ Fighters and I had De la Riva, Thiago Dominguez, Oscar Daniotti and Cobrinha come through it without problem.

I wonder if actually quoting the section of the law with a link for him to double check this would have caused him to make another decision since the law is very clear and specific. Did he had a letter with him similar to mine quoting the law?


11/26/12 6:03 PM
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deepu
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Don Whitefield - I agree that many immigration officers make decisions based on what they remember and that they are not having the exact text of the law on them. If they refused entry before or saw their colleagues do so they will probably do so again.

YVR is notorious for refusing BJJ Fighters and I had De la Riva, Thiago Dominguez, Oscar Daniotti and Cobrinha come through it without problem.

I wonder if actually quoting the section of the law with a link for him to double check this would have caused him to make another decision since the law is very clear and specific. Did he had a letter with him similar to mine quoting the law?



I based the letter on your template and I believe they even went and checked the link. In the end, the guard said that "speaker" section was not applicable. Anyway, still appreciate the letter, just wanted to give a heads up.
11/26/12 6:29 PM
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Don Whitefield
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I am very sorry to hear that because the law is as clear as it can be regarding the need for a work permit for "guest speakers and seminar leaders". Thank you for letting me and everyone else know.
12/1/12 1:16 PM
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fakezaga
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Edited: 12/01/12 1:25 PM
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My wonderful wife is an immigration lawyer. I showed her this thread a while ago, but didn't post because I didn't want it to seem like I was shilling for her. Nor did she want to look as though she was dispensing unsolicited legal advice online.

However, she said she didn't think the "guest speakers and seminar leaders," exemption would apply. She has never brought in a BJJ professor, but has brought in other world renowned athletes for training seminars.

The officers use the Temporary Foreign Workers manual to make their decisions. It's a lot more detailed than the general information site OP linked to. You can find it at this link:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/fw/index.asp

In section 5.11 on page 37 it says "Not included in R186(j) are commercial speakers who are hired by a Canadian entity to provide training services, or guest instructors of a particular sport coming to teach weekend seminars."

There's your problem. Individual officers have a lot of discretion and she says sometimes they will let someone in by mistake or on good faith and make a note on the file.

She says she would advise a client they need an LMO: a Labour Market Opinion. This takes 3 - 5 weeks depending on whether you have to advertise the position. If you are organizing a seminar tour, you only need to get the LMO done in the first location.

If you have the LMO, you should have no trouble.

If they are not from a visa-exempt country like the US, they likely would need a visa, too. That's a whole other story.

Fees vary from lawyer to lawyer. My wife operates on a fixed-rate basis and publishes her fees on her website at http://nsimmigration.ca/ She charges $1,500 for an LMO. Technically, you don't need a lawyer to do it, but as you can see these things are pretty nuanced.
12/1/12 3:15 PM
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deepu
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Edited: 12/01/12 3:15 PM
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Thank you fakezaga, voted up! I'll look into the LMO for sure.
12/3/12 11:32 PM
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Don Whitefield
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It is cool that you can shed light on this. I will look into the LMO too but I find it odd that this sub-section almost exactly contradicts the section posted online:

“Public speakers
Guest speakers, commercial speakers or seminar leaders can speak or deliver training in Canada without a work permit as long as the event is no longer than five days.”

and

"Not included in R186(j) are commercial speakers who are hired by a Canadian entity to provide training services, or guest instructors of a particular sport coming to teach weekend seminars.
12/4/12 9:56 AM
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fakezaga
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I know, right?

But there it is, in black and white. I guess every section has exemptions and they don't post them all on the general information site.

Another thing my wife said is that the manual changes all the time. It is constantly being updated. So every time they do an application, they consult the manual, since it is what the officer uses to make their determination.
2/7/13 10:16 AM
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fakezaga
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Been meaning to bump this thread for a few weeks, since I saw on facebook somebody else had visa trouble.
2/7/13 10:48 AM
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deepu
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Massive pain in the ass, but LMO is the way to go. Here is what I got from the govt this month:


Good morning,



The reason why the coach is refused admission at the port of entry may well be that he is entering the Canadian labour market and therefore may require an LMO.



The fact that the instructor's expertise cannot be found in Canada does not, solely in itself, constitute an exemption of the LMO .

Since he is being hired & paid by a Canadian entity, there is an employer/employee relationship.

Training activities are viewed as providing a service to Canadians, and therefore are considered an entry into the labour market.



For more information on LMO exemptions please refer to our Foreign Worker Manual, Section 5.11 R186)j):

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/fw/fw01-eng.pdf



5.11 Work without a work permit R186(j)--Public speakers

Not included in R186(j) are commercial speakers who are hired by a Canadian entity to provide training services, or guest instructors of a particular sport coming to teach weekend seminars. Training activities are viewed as providing a service to Canadians, and therefore are considered an entry into the labour market. In these cases, other entry options must be explored including HRSDC/SC LMOs or the NAFTA Professional category which allows for professionals to provide training services under some circumstances.

To summarize, yes, you would need to fill out the appropriate forms but since it is not the mandate of Immigration Canada to evaluate the labour market you must contact :

Human Resources and Social Development Canada (HRSDC) at:



514-877-0022 our 1 (866) 840-0222 or at their website:

http://www.hrsdc.gc.ca/eng/workplaceskills/foreign_workers/index.shtml
2/7/13 11:17 AM
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fakezaga
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I'm not in the business of bringing people in for seminars.

But if I was, I would think the most risk-free way to do it would be to organize a cross-Canada tour with affiliated academies.

That way you only need the one LMO and you can offset the cost through multiple seminars.

There will always be people who get through despite doing it wrong - but you are taking a big risk without the LMO.

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