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BJJGround Forum >> Pedro Valente talks ryron vs andre


10/25/12 5:24 PM
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demandango
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Pedro valente is correct Phone Post
10/25/12 5:51 PM
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joshjitsu
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Trillo Jiujitsu - 
dojo stormer - why the fuck are his gi sleeves so short?

Summer Gi's are lighter for one reason, also they are not into any competition Jiujitsu matches so no need to wear those thick competition only regulated gi's. I personally use them at my school and we like them.

Thats ridiculous. Just wear a gi that fits. Who are you Sensi John Kreese from the Cobra Kia?
10/25/12 6:56 PM
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Synado
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joshjitsu - 
Trillo Jiujitsu - 
dojo stormer - why the fuck are his gi sleeves so short?

Summer Gi's are lighter for one reason, also they are not into any competition Jiujitsu matches so no need to wear those thick competition only regulated gi's. I personally use them at my school and we like them.

Thats ridiculous. Just wear a gi that fits. Who are you Sensi John Kreese from the Cobra Kia?

SLEEVES DO NOT EXIST IN THIS DOJO!
10/25/12 9:33 PM
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BigEyedFish
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Ttt Phone Post
10/25/12 10:15 PM
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Setree
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tappingout - I dont get this streetfight argument. Working as bouncer i have seen a lot of them and they are rarely one on one fights. The "normal" streetfight is one fighting two, or more persons at the same time. From that perspective you do not want to hangout on the bottom, because you cant be safe from multiple opponents. The days of romance when you were fighting a man one on one in a fair fight is long gone in my opinion.

How fortunate that I will always have one or more on my side! This street fight thing is easy. :)
10/25/12 11:33 PM
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cm81
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mjm345 - The reason people keep bringing up the "real fight" argument is because the Gracie academy is attempting to use the match as validation of their "self defense" style BJJ.

If you are going to claim that performance as a great demonstration of SD BJJ, of course people are going to point out that in a fight Galvao would have pummeled him from the dominant positions he held for 80% of the match.

You can't have it both ways Phone Post
This.

I love the Gracies and Royce was the reason I did BJJ. But that doesn't mean I have to accept everything my heroes say as gospel.

Among others, online belt testing and "keeping it playful" as a viable streetfight strategy are all wrong. Period.

If getting your guard passed and then positionally dominated is ok... Then why didn't it work for Royce vs Hughes. Where was the "space" that Hughes was supposed to give when he pummeled him to oblivion. Phone Post
10/26/12 11:11 PM
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JSho
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Before too long Rorion will have done a retcon with Maeda learning gjj from Helio, going back to Japan and teaching it to Kano who then muddies the pure water and invents Judo. Phone Post
10/27/12 1:18 AM
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JasonGV
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Jivetkr - basically everyone else showed up to fight except rener & co. who showed up to film an infomercial.

IMO...these guys or anyone from their camp should not be invited to the next event. this event should be for fighters who want to fight & for fans that want to see actual fights.


LOL, great observation. There was a clear agenda here.
10/27/12 1:19 AM
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joshjitsu
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Rorian kept it so playful in Gracie in Action
10/27/12 5:30 AM
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burner22
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cm81 -
mjm345 - The reason people keep bringing up the "real fight" argument is because the Gracie academy is attempting to use the match as validation of their "self defense" style BJJ.

If you are going to claim that performance as a great demonstration of SD BJJ, of course people are going to point out that in a fight Galvao would have pummeled him from the dominant positions he held for 80% of the match.

You can't have it both ways Phone Post
This.

I love the Gracies and Royce was the reason I did BJJ. But that doesn't mean I have to accept everything my heroes say as gospel.

Among others, online belt testing and "keeping it playful" as a viable streetfight strategy are all wrong. Period.

If getting your guard passed and then positionally dominated is ok... Then why didn't it work for Royce vs Hughes. Where was the "space" that Hughes was supposed to give when he pummeled him to oblivion. Phone Post
I concur Phone Post
10/28/12 2:10 AM
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CompanyBlue
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I don't agree with bringing up pros like Hughes Royce. If you use mma as an example, there are tons of examples of bjj, wrestling, boxing, muay Thai etc. failing to do what they were meant to do. they all look close to worthless at some point if you want to use mma fighters to judge effectiveness. There are too many factors in a big pro fight
10/28/12 3:51 AM
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ams
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Most here didn't watch the breakdown. See it first before you start to argue Phone Post
10/28/12 6:25 AM
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Jayhof
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Edited: 10/28/12 6:26 AM
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there are two simple to understand different strategies:
1. be aggressive and go for the submission.
2. play defense and wait for opponent to make a mistake or to gas.

All Ryron said was that his father was small so he used strategy "2" during his vale tudo fights. All Andre said was that he would have won on points.

Both are correct opinions. Both are useful stategies. Be a master of strategy and learn different strategies and perspective.

Yesterday while training, I used both during one roll. I tapped the guy a few times, then I played defense for the next five to ten minutes and let the guy try to tap me. I was able to practice several difficult escapes and got a good cardio work out.
10/28/12 2:12 PM
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Don Whitefield
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Honestly, I think as a longtime supporter of Jiu-Jitsu Pedro Valente deserves more respect than some of you are showing to him.

That being said, I also think that him and all other Gracie Jiu-Jitsu guys would be better off to acknowledge the obvious: that Andre simply dominated Ryron in that fight. I think it is very disrespectful to Andre (no matter what you might think of him personally) to deny him this and it makes them look like a lot lesser men.

We all saw how Ryron was easily controlled and it would have stood him better to simply admit this and move on. Him and his family planned to showcase Gracie Jiu-Jitsu but ended up probably loosing more credibility than they gained in BJJ community just because they can't check their pride at the door...

10/28/12 2:21 PM
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BigEyedFish
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DeuceDroppin -  Thanks 12..Video was pretty comical, as I thought it would be. Aren't Ryron and Galvao about the same weight? Listening to Valente talk, you would think that this was some David vs. Goliath match. If this was a real fight, it would have likely went about like the Hughes/Royce fight, except Ryron would have likely been soccer kicked and head stomped into the next life. Obviously guys like Ryron are going to have legit skills, if for no other reason, they have been doing it their whole lives. With that being said, and with respect, it would be nice to see them evolve like so many others have. Phone Post

such a stupid statement.

Its not a question of evolution. There is IBJJF tournament jiu jitsu and there is traditional GJJ. They are both excellent for what their respective need to accomplish. They are different for a reason. Evolution has nothing to do with it.
10/28/12 8:40 PM
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DeuceDroppin
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BigEyedFish -
DeuceDroppin -  Thanks 12..Video was pretty comical, as I thought it would be. Aren't Ryron and Galvao about the same weight? Listening to Valente talk, you would think that this was some David vs. Goliath match. If this was a real fight, it would have likely went about like the Hughes/Royce fight, except Ryron would have likely been soccer kicked and head stomped into the next life. Obviously guys like Ryron are going to have legit skills, if for no other reason, they have been doing it their whole lives. With that being said, and with respect, it would be nice to see them evolve like so many others have. Phone Post

such a stupid statement.

Its not a question of evolution. There is IBJJF tournament jiu jitsu and there is traditional GJJ. They are both excellent for what their respective need to accomplish. They are different for a reason. Evolution has nothing to do with it.
So the traditional Gracie stand up style doesn't need to evolve? Their take downs don't need to evolve? Their wrestling doesn't need to evolve? If you are too blind to see this then you are a true fucking idiot. The Royce/Hughes fight is a perfect example of this as Royce was likely every bit as good as he was back in the day, and Matt Hughes was a great representation of the evolution of MMA. And with that being said, I like Royce and can't stand Hughes..BUT..reality is reality. Phone Post
10/28/12 10:27 PM
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Sgt. Slaphead
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DeuceDroppin - 
BigEyedFish -
DeuceDroppin -  Thanks 12..Video was pretty comical, as I thought it would be. Aren't Ryron and Galvao about the same weight? Listening to Valente talk, you would think that this was some David vs. Goliath match. If this was a real fight, it would have likely went about like the Hughes/Royce fight, except Ryron would have likely been soccer kicked and head stomped into the next life. Obviously guys like Ryron are going to have legit skills, if for no other reason, they have been doing it their whole lives. With that being said, and with respect, it would be nice to see them evolve like so many others have. Phone Post

such a stupid statement.

Its not a question of evolution. There is IBJJF tournament jiu jitsu and there is traditional GJJ. They are both excellent for what their respective need to accomplish. They are different for a reason. Evolution has nothing to do with it.
So the traditional Gracie stand up style doesn't need to evolve? Their take downs don't need to evolve? Their wrestling doesn't need to evolve? If you are too blind to see this then you are a true fucking idiot. The Royce/Hughes fight is a perfect example of this as Royce was likely every bit as good as he was back in the day, and Matt Hughes was a great representation of the evolution of MMA. And with that being said, I like Royce and can't stand Hughes..BUT..reality is reality. Phone Post

GJJ, BJJ or a particular instructor's of jiujitsu does not need to "evolve" .........it is what it is and if peolle find value in it then so be it. MMA & sport jiujitsu do not define jiujitsu or validate it as both are specific environments su ject to their own rules and objectives.

I havent watched the breakdown yet.......HOLY SHIT 1 hour, but i did watch the match. people commenting about if it had been a real fight blahblahblah.......dont understand or are ignoring what has been stated already by others. I just wanted to comment about the evolve bit.
10/28/12 11:55 PM
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cm81
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The truth is that the Gracie Academy is always going on about how their "style" is for the street and sport BJJ schools aren't.

But its largely just a selling/marketing ploy. Any sport BJJ player knows simple things like clinching tight in closed guard to avoid strikes etc. It is painfully obvious stuff. At the end of the day, what decides effective ground fighting is the control over the positions.

Look at Nova Uniao. Sport BJJ school. They mix it up with muay thai and they have some of the best MMA fighters. They don't need to do punch block series or become a GJJ CTC to learn effective street/MMA ready groundfighting. Phone Post

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