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S&C UnderGround >> High Pulls and upright rows


11/8/12 3:24 AM
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grapplingwithzen
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I've read in a lot of places that upright rows are harmful due to the fact that they cause a small tendon in your shoulder to get pinched by the bones in the shoulder. However some other lifts such as high pulls, power cleans etc use a similar motion. Are they harmful to the same tendon as well?

I know very little about anatomy, but I was thinking about how I do the different movements and with the wider grip I use for high pulls it doesn't seem as if my shoulder has the same degree of internal rotation as for upright rows.

(For the record I don't do upright rows normally, however I do high pulls and sometimes cleans and/or power cleans). Thanks.
11/8/12 4:32 AM
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Leigh
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A clean only requires you to pull just past your hips. Upright row to your neck is different Phone Post
11/8/12 1:29 PM
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Taku
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Following up on what Leigh said (which is correct). During High-pull, the grips is wider. The classic Upright Row has folks pushing the hands close to the center of the bar. This causes internal rotation during the movement which is where the potential for impingement (at the AC joint) to occur. If and when I have folks do any sort of upright pull, I do one of the following:

1. Keep the grip at shoulder width, and only pull as high up as this position will allow (for most it is about mid-pec (nipple line) height.

2. I use DB's and pull one at a time. With dumbbell I allow the body to be slightly canted forward ( sort of looking down without losing posture). I then have them pull the DB's as high as possible, without forcing them to the inside.

These two versions seem to accomplish the goal in a more user friendly (joint safe) manner.

TAKU

11/8/12 9:12 PM
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Walbert
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Adding to above which is all correct people stick their chin out while doing upright rows making the situation worse. In a high pull people instinctively keep their chin "stacked", I like the verbal cue "make a double chin" if people don't get what stacked is.
11/9/12 11:13 AM
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Taku
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Great input from Walbert. The "jutting" chin does happen a lot. Most often because folks try to use too much weight, and then the chin goes forward as the try to "close the gap" between bar and face.

TAKU 

11/10/12 12:22 AM
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Chocolate Shatner
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another option for upright rows if you really feel the need to do them is to use a cable with a tricep rope. The rope will naturally spread as your hands go up, allowing the joint to move naturally and not be stressed as much.
11/10/12 8:41 AM
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HULC
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Without having tried it myself, wouldn't using a triceps rope push your shoulders towards internal rotation?
11/10/12 1:39 PM
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Taku
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Final note on these:

Most often I choose not to do any type of direct "High-Pull" type motion. I have folks do lots of other shoulder work with shrug variations etc.

TAKU

11/10/12 6:46 PM
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Chocolate Shatner
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HULC - Without having tried it myself, wouldn't using a triceps rope push your shoulders towards internal rotation?

At the bottom of the movement, yes, your hands will tend to go together. But, as you pull higher, you'll see your hands spread apart. I personally still don't do upright rows, but when I have done them, this is the version that is easiest on my shoulders.
11/11/12 1:18 PM
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MattB ATC
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Chocolate Shatner - 
HULC - Without having tried it myself, wouldn't using a triceps rope push your shoulders towards internal rotation?

At the bottom of the movement, yes, your hands will tend to go together. But, as you pull higher, you'll see your hands spread apart. I personally still don't do upright rows, but when I have done them, this is the version that is easiest on my shoulders.

Chocolate Shatner is correct that at the bottom of the movement you may tend to lean more towards an internally rotated position, but the main problem with the upright row and impingement is combined shoulder flexion and internal rotation under a load. Using the rope will eliminate some of the forced internal rotation that would occur when using a barbell. I try to explain the movement using the rope as a vertical face pull. Still not a huge fan of upright rows in any form, and as others already stated during a high pull, the bar is being carried by mostly momentum shortly after it passes your hips, so I don't compare the two.

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