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5/10/13 2:31 AM
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Wasa-B
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Btw, BBMVP, in your opinion alone, do you think the way the negotiations transpired, casts some doubt on whether Pac was juicing? Though, if the latest he agreed to was up to 14 days, isnt that late enough to determine he wasnt able to cycle thru his training camp?

Also what about JMM's so-called 2nd puberty stage? And did that size, legit or non, help him with the 4th fight with Pac? I suppose they were that close already and that Pac just walked right into that last punch anyhow?
5/10/13 2:33 AM
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Barry_BondsMVP
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no doubt brother, it goes both ways..seemed like Manny was ready to let Floyd take the bigger cut, but Arum will never have that. Because of their dislike for eachother, they'll never put money in eachother's pockets. Yea like Fedor, Manny is too loyal to his team, Floyd is his own man, does whatever he wants. Arum controls Manny, which is sad because Manny really doesn't need him.

Floyd called Manny and told him, I'll wire you $20 million right now, and the other $20 million in a few weeks. Manny said 50/50.

5/10/13 2:38 AM
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Barry_BondsMVP
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I think Ariza is a little shady and feel Manny was likely on PED's...the guy started at 108 pounds, got dropped early in his career by a body shot lol. But he becomes a monster later on in his career. I found it ironic all of Ariza's fighters JCC, Khan, Manny have complained of leg cramps during fights lol.

I remember hearing Manny felt 7 days was too close to draw blood. He was scared of needles, but he has tats? 

I know the fourth fight they worked more on power, and JMM was working with a known drug dealer Angel Heredia.

5/10/13 2:39 AM
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Barry_BondsMVP
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Edited: 05/10/13 2:39 AM
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voted up btw Wasa-B.

never know, Floyd might of done some PED's in the past as well, who knows.

5/10/13 2:40 AM
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Wasa-B
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Barry_BondsMVP - http://sports.yahoo.com/news/boxing--floyd-mayweather-and-manny-pacquiao-nearly-agreed-to-a-2010-fight.html read that bro, after the initial cut-off wasn't agreed upon..both camps were trying to get each other to agreed on different cut offs.

"A contract sent on Dec. 11, 2009, by Golden Boy Promotions on behalf of Mayweather to Top Rank on behalf of Pacquiao proposed a 50-50 financial split between the sides for a fight that would have been held March 13, 2010."

So 50/50 was offered by GoldenBoy/Mayweather initially i guess?

"Pacquiao's side declined the 2009 contract offer because Pacquiao objected to Mayweather's request for the drug testing. Though Pacquiao has subsequently agreed to Mayweather's demands for random blood and urine testing, the sides have not been able to reach agreement on a deal. "

...because of the cut off date?

And then the he said/she said between Arum and Schaefer save for the supposed contract?

" Schaefer said he met Arum shortly before Thanksgiving in 2009 to discuss parameters of a deal, but said he didn't remember sending Top Rank a completed contract for signature that included a 50-50 purse split.

However, in a contract obtained by Yahoo! Sports, paragraph 11 under the section entitled Net Profits reads: "Net Profits shall be allocated 50/50 between GBP and TR." The contract goes on to say that net profits would include a split of "all gross revenues."

In sub-paragraph 11 (a), entitled HBO PPV Fight Night Advance, it reads, "Not withstanding the foregoing, the HBO PPV fight night advance shall be paid 50% directly to GBP and 50% directly to TR.""
5/10/13 2:42 AM
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Wasa-B
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Cool, again, thanks for the info, will carry on tomorrow....
5/10/13 2:46 AM
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Wasa-B
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Oh and usually dont vote up or down but up for you!
5/10/13 2:47 AM
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Barry_BondsMVP
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yea you nailed it buddy..money split was agreed upon, the testing/cutt-off wasn't..then like you mentioned afterwards the nagging and finger pointing wars would begin.

5/10/13 2:58 AM
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lockon
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Edited: 05/10/13 3:12 AM
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Why did no one bring up the "second puberty" garbage when the third fight took place. I don't think I'm hallucinating here, but I'm pretty fucking sure Marquez had already gained a significant amount of muscle then. Being slightly bigger in the fourth fight a year later was hardly a big deal.

Being skeptical about JMM working with Heredia is fine, but to begin spewing that stuff out a year and two fights later is such a joke. Watching Lampley get choked up immediately after Marquez's win only to throw him under the bus during his crappy fight show a week or two later is truly disgusting.
5/10/13 3:06 AM
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PoundforPound
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Edited: 05/10/13 3:10 AM
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Yeah, that Wiki is pretty much spot on. But it combines all the different attempts to make the fight over the years.

The only time when a 50/50 fight was agreeable to both it was the refusal to do the drug testing that ruined everything.

After those initial negotiations the sides kept getting more entrenched. Floyd started wanting more and more of the pie each time since he believed his PPV numbers warranted a bigger cut. And Arum kept coming up with odd bullshit like needing to build a stadium (has it been built yet?) and so on.
5/10/13 4:24 AM
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Barry_BondsMVP
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nice post lockon...plus JMM wanted to drug test for the IV fight.

and according to a source, FMJ/Guerrero exceeded a million buys.

 

http://www.fighthype.com/news/article14394.html
5/10/13 10:22 AM
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chadk
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Some time back, I posted an article from Thomas Hauser that told how Floyd's supposedly failed a few drug tests. However, his contract was written in a way that if he passed his post fight tests, only those ( clean ) results counted.

I think the article was called "The PED Mess" and was published in a few parts on Maxboxing. I'm on my phone, so don't ask me to find and link it now.

Does everyone remember the defamation suit Manny filed on Floyd? Interestingly enough, the writer said that when whispers about Floyd's failed tests started leaking out, Manny's lawyers supoened (sp?) those results and then Floyd's lawyers suddenly settled out of court for an undisclosed sum & non-discloser of the terms. Makes you wonder, no?

With as much money as there is available, I don't doubt ANYONE wouldn't be tempted, including Manny, Floyd, Marquez, etc, etc, etc,.. Phone Post
5/10/13 10:30 AM
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chadk
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Barry_BondsMVP -

nice post lockon...plus JMM wanted to drug test for the IV fight.

and according to a source, FMJ/Guerrero exceeded a million buys.

 

http://www.fighthype.com/news/article14394.html
Why wouldn't he? Not a single client of Heredia's ever tested positive to my knowledge. But, he admitted under oath to administering roids. "Sure.... test me!" Phone Post
5/10/13 10:35 AM
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chadk
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As a wise man once pointed out to me, you think a man who was willing to drink his own piss in an effort to gain an advantage WOULDN'T be willing to roid in an effort to best his biggest rival??? Phone Post
5/10/13 11:53 AM
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Barry_BondsMVP
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Edited: 05/10/13 11:54 AM
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yea I remember those claims, but the tests were later released showing both Cotto and FMJ were clean.

http://www.usada.org/cotto-mayweather 

I don't know why USADA would look to protect Mayweather? If they were, at least someone like Floyd is willing to test, yet Manny still refused testing with Floyd and JMM.

5/10/13 12:53 PM
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Barry_BondsMVP
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Mayweather PPV Does Over One Million Buys                                                                                                                                                           The numbers are in, and Showtime is reporting that the Floyd Mayweather-Robert Guerrero fight did over one million buys.

Stephen Espinoza, head of boxing at Showtime, told TSS that he is quite pleased with the result, and that the buy rate shows that Floyd Mayweather is the top PPV draw in sports.

"Rumors of our financial demise were greatly exagerrared, if not fabricated," said Espinoza, in reference to the Twitterspehere speculation earlier in the week that the PPV was in the 800,000 neighborhood.

"We wanted to take our time, not speak without a sufficient basis. We're very comfortable saying the buys are going to be over a million. These numbers re-confirm that Floyd is without a doubt the top pay-per-view draw in the sport. This kind of number without the benefit of a well-known opponent establishes Floyd's drawing power."

Espinoza admitted he would have liked a few more weeks to hype the promotion. "The promotion was a little shorter than usual, by a few weeks," he said. "But I'm very happy how the promotion happened, the visibility in the general market. It was a big win. One big focus was on the non-boxing and casual fans, and we reached them, and in the process further elevated Showtime's brand."

Follow Woods on Twitter here.

Boxing doesn't have an offseason, so I was curious, have talks between Showtime, Team Mayweather, Golden Boy and Team Canelo started?

"I have spoken to reps for both fighters as well as Golden Boy, talks are ongoing, and it appears all sides want that fight as first choice," Espinoza told me.

I heard a rumors that perhaps Canelo might be pricing himself out, wanting too much money. Has Espinoza heard that? "I've heard nothing along those lines," he said. "Of course the deal with the fighters is with Golden Boy, not Showtime, but I am in the loop in those discussions and I haven't heard of any major problems in prelimary talks."

5/10/13 1:00 PM
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chadk
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Barry, it was my understanding it was Golden Boy who wasn't releasing the early testing results, just the clear post fight results. Phone Post
5/10/13 2:36 PM
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PoundforPound
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Edited: 05/10/13 2:38 PM
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Thomas Hauser wrote about "rumors" of Floyd's failed tests. But never provided any actual proof. The rumors probably trace back to nothing more than an article by Gabriel Montoya who also had no evidence of any wrong doing.

Isn't it a little far fetched to believe that the same organization who caught Lance Armstrong would give a boxer of all people a pass?
5/10/13 3:19 PM
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chadk
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Well, I found it odd that Floyd's lawyers suddenly settled when Manny's submitted legal work to access those test results. Like I said, I don't put any of them above it. Phone Post
5/10/13 5:41 PM
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Wasa-B
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lockon - Why did no one bring up the "second puberty" garbage when the third fight took place. I don't think I'm hallucinating here, but I'm pretty fucking sure Marquez had already gained a significant amount of muscle then. Being slightly bigger in the fourth fight a year later was hardly a big deal.

Being skeptical about JMM working with Heredia is fine, but to begin spewing that stuff out a year and two fights later is such a joke. Watching Lampley get choked up immediately after Marquez's win only to throw him under the bus during his crappy fight show a week or two later is truly disgusting.

Im certainly not accusing JMM of anything and am a fan of him myself. I was merely asking because I was curious to see what some of the more serious boxing fans think about it personally, just as they do about Pac not accepting the tests initially. Im not up to boxing as closely as MMA and thought this would be a good thread to ask about it.....and dam, cant believe its almost been a year since!
5/10/13 5:43 PM
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Wasa-B
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lockon - Why did no one bring up the "second puberty" garbage when the third fight took place. I don't think I'm hallucinating here, but I'm pretty fucking sure Marquez had already gained a significant amount of muscle then. Being slightly bigger in the fourth fight a year later was hardly a big deal.

Being skeptical about JMM working with Heredia is fine, but to begin spewing that stuff out a year and two fights later is such a joke. Watching Lampley get choked up immediately after Marquez's win only to throw him under the bus during his crappy fight show a week or two later is truly disgusting.

Btw, the second puberty line was from our good ol friend Chael and put it accordingly in quotes, didnt I?

And again, though i dont follow boxing as closly as MMA, i sure dont remember the muscular gains for the 3rd fight as much as it noticeably was for the 4th fight (again, without making any accusatons or dismissing the notion he could have done that legit).
5/10/13 5:45 PM
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Wasa-B
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chadk -  As a wise man once pointed out to me, you think a man who was willing to drink his own piss in an effort to gain an advantage WOULDN'T be willing to roid in an effort to best his biggest rival??? Phone Post

How did Machida get thrown in this boxing debate? ;p
5/10/13 9:05 PM
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Barry_BondsMVP
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there's nothing to hide, the test results are right there...USADA isn't going to put their reputation on the line for Mayweather.

5/10/13 9:06 PM
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lockon
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Wasa-B - 
lockon - Why did no one bring up the "second puberty" garbage when the third fight took place. I don't think I'm hallucinating here, but I'm pretty fucking sure Marquez had already gained a significant amount of muscle then. Being slightly bigger in the fourth fight a year later was hardly a big deal.

Being skeptical about JMM working with Heredia is fine, but to begin spewing that stuff out a year and two fights later is such a joke. Watching Lampley get choked up immediately after Marquez's win only to throw him under the bus during his crappy fight show a week or two later is truly disgusting.

Im certainly not accusing JMM of anything and am a fan of him myself. I was merely asking because I was curious to see what some of the more serious boxing fans think about it personally, just as they do about Pac not accepting the tests initially. Im not up to boxing as closely as MMA and thought this would be a good thread to ask about it.....and dam, cant believe its almost been a year since!

I didn't mean any disrespect to you personally, you seem pretty level-headed and fair about it all, considering you have questions and concerns about Pacquiao and his team as well.

Since their fight in December it's been a big trend to bring up Heredia & JMM's muscle gain, despite the fact that they've been working together since his third fight with Pacquiao. Still, in the last few months of 2011 when that fight took place there might have been a couple of articles and a tiny amount of posters who brought it up.

Of course, Marquez is still working with Memo a year later through his 2012 bout with Fedchenko (at least I'm pretty sure) and still not a word is said. Fast forward to the fourth fight and people attribute his "hulk-like" power to the Marquez's steroid use, giving little credit to the beautiful feint that set up the right hand and the third and Pacquiao practically leaping into the counter punch which knocked him cold.

Also, as Barry mentioned, Freddie and his camp had some vocal concerns about JMM which lead to Marquez's willingness to take whatever tests they had in mind, so long as Pacquiao did so himself. Sure enough, all that talk halted after that.

Anyway, I didn't mean to come off like a douche. You're one of the more knowledgeable posters on the board and seem cool in your posts. Pacquiao's fan community and HBO have just made a lot of disparaging, ignorant remarks over their poster boy's loss.
5/10/13 9:09 PM
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lockon
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PoundforPound - Thomas Hauser wrote about "rumors" of Floyd's failed tests. But never provided any actual proof. The rumors probably trace back to nothing more than an article by Gabriel Montoya who also had no evidence of any wrong doing.

Isn't it a little far fetched to believe that the same organization who caught Lance Armstrong would give a boxer of all people a pass?

Is that where that all came from? I remember reading about all these rumors on NSB yet never seeing anything of substance. All of that seemed ridiculous.

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