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5/9/13 9:46 PM
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Barry_BondsMVP
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.............

5/9/13 11:13 PM
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PoundforPound
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Edited: 05/09/13 11:30 PM
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Wasa-B -verified thru....he/she said.


If you really want I can post links to reliable sources where Team Pac makes claims that blood testing makes him weak. Or where Arum says that WADA is more credible than USADA (only to then have WADA come out with a statement that USADA is their representative in the United States.)

Not to harp on this subject or pick on you specifically. But there were too many arguments on this site over the years to just let this pass without at least noting the hypocrisy.

Ultimately it’s good that he finally caved in. Better late than never I guess, I just wish he would have been this willing to test when it was the only thing holding up the biggest fight in boxing history.

5/10/13 12:09 AM
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pharochuck
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MixedMartialArts LLC, Moderator
PoundforPound -
Wasa-B -verified thru....he/she said.


If you really want I can post links to reliable sources where Team Pac makes claims that blood testing makes him weak. Or where Arum says that WADA is more credible than USADA (only to then have WADA come out with a statement that USADA is their representative in the United States.)

Not to harp on this subject or pick on you specifically. But there were too many arguments on this site over the years to just let this pass without at least noting the hypocrisy.

Ultimately it’s good that he finally caved in. Better late than never I guess, I just wish he would have been this willing to test when it was the only thing holding up the biggest fight in boxing history.

Well stated. Phone Post 3.0
5/10/13 12:40 AM
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chadk
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PoundforPound -
Wasa-B -verified thru....he/she said.


If you really want I can post links to reliable sources where Team Pac makes claims that blood testing makes him weak. Or where Arum says that WADA is more credible than USADA (only to then have WADA come out with a statement that USADA is their representative in the United States.)

Not to harp on this subject or pick on you specifically. But there were too many arguments on this site over the years to just let this pass without at least noting the hypocrisy.

Ultimately it’s good that he finally caved in. Better late than never I guess, I just wish he would have been this willing to test when it was the only thing holding up the biggest fight in boxing history.

Yeah, so when he did Floyd changed his whole 50/50 stance. Manny then offers 45/45 with the winner getting the remaining 10% and he still won't sign. Both men are responsible for it not happening. Seems like I recall Sergio offering to meet him at 154lbs and only ask for 20% after crushing Williams. It's not like Floyd's aggressively tried to make tough fights in awhile. Phone Post
5/10/13 12:53 AM
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Barry_BondsMVP
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Chad they could never agree with the cut-off date. Manny said 7 days prior to the fight was too soon..that would weaken him lol. Money was fine, the testing kept the fight from happening. The second negotiations money became an issue. The latest negotations after JMM III, Arum had full of excuses, Floyd offered $40 million and Arum said he wanted 50/50, yet Manny said he'd take less then 50%.

5/10/13 1:57 AM
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Wasa-B
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PoundforPound - 
Wasa-B -verified thru....he/she said.


If you really want I can post links to reliable sources where Team Pac makes claims that blood testing makes him weak. Or where Arum says that WADA is more credible than USADA (only to then have WADA come out with a statement that USADA is their representative in the United States.)

Not to harp on this subject or pick on you specifically. But there were too many arguments on this site over the years to just let this pass without at least noting the hypocrisy.

Ultimately it’s good that he finally caved in. Better late than never I guess, I just wish he would have been this willing to test when it was the only thing holding up the biggest fight in boxing history.


Do you (or BBMVP), agree to the account on Mayweather's wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floyd_Mayweather,_Jr.

Negotiations with Manny Pacquiao

Seven-division world champion Manny Pacquiao reportedly agreed to fight Mayweather on March 13, 2010 for a split of $50 million.[115] However, the fight was canceled due to disagreements about Olympic- drug tests. Mayweather's camp wanted blood tests by the United States Anti-Doping Agency, which would conduct random tests from training until the fight date.[116] The Pacquiao camp refused to provide samples, only willing to allow blood to be taken if the test were scheduled. Pacquiao's coach, Freddie Roach, stated that he would allow a blood sample to be taken if there was a cut-off date for blood testing or at least one week before the fight.

In an attempt to resolve their differences, the two camps agreed to mediation before a retired judge. After the mediation, Mayweather agreed to a 14-day no-blood-testing window. Pacquiao refused, only agreeing to a 24-day window.[117] On January 7, 2010 Pacquiao's promoter Bob Arum declared that the fight was canceled, offering a chance to fight Pacquiao to Joshua Clottey instead; Mayweather accepted the offer to fight Mosley.[118]

It was reported that Golden Boy Promotions CEO Richard Schaefer and Top Rank chief Bob Arum were trying to work out the failed negotiations for the bout between Mayweather and Pacquiao. Mayweather asked Pacquiao to undergo random blood and urine testing until fight day. Pacquiao agreed to give blood until 14 days before the fight, which is closer to the fight day than the 18-day cutoff in Mayweather's previous bout against Mosley. Pacquiao said that giving blood too close to the fight day would weaken him, and he has a fear of needles (despite having tattoos on his body). On June 12, 2010, president of Golden Boy Promotions Oscar De La Hoya stated during an interview with a Spanish network that a fight deal was near, although the negotiation process had been difficult.[119]

On June 30 Arum announced that management for both sides had agreed to terms, all points of contention were settled (including Pacquiao agreeing to submit to blood and urine testing) and only Mayweather's signature was needed to seal a deal that could have earned both fighters at least $40 million each.[120] Mayweather was then given a two-week deadline to sign the contract.[121]

On Thursday, July 15, Mayweather was given until midnight Friday midnight to sign the contract. The following day, the Top Rank website embedded a countdown clock with the heading "Money Time: Mayweather's Decision".[122] On July 17, Arum announced that there was no word from Mayweather's camp and a deal for a November 13 fight was not reached.

On July 19, after waiting for Mayweather's response, Leonard Ellerbe (a close adviser) denied that negotiations for a fight between Mayweather and Pacquiao had ever taken place. He stated that Arum was not telling the truth, and Pacquiao never agreed to testing until the fight.[123] Arum later criticized De La Hoya and Golden Boy Promotions CEO Richard Schaefer for denying that negotiations took place, after De La Hoya previously stated that they were "very, very close in finalizing the contracts".[124]

Arum revealed that HBO Sports president Ross Greenburg acted as mediator between Mayweather's handlers and those of Pacquiao's from Top Rank Promotions.[125] On July 26 Greenburg stated that he had been negotiating with a representative from each side since May 2, trying to put the fight together, but they were unable to come to an agreement at all (contradicting what Arum and Top Rank had previously said).[126][127] After the second round of negotiations broke off, Mayweather told the Associated Press that he had fought 60 days ago, was in no rush to fight Pacquiao and was not thinking about boxing at the moment.[128]

Almost a year later (on July 8, 2011), Pacquiao's top adviser Michael Koncz stated that Pacquiao had never agreed to testing until fight day (which contradicted Arum and the Pacquiao camp).[129] However, Arum confirmed that Pacquiao had agreed to unlimited random testing administered by the Olympic organization.[130]

Further obstacles to the fight surfaced when Mayweather refused a 50-50 split of earnings with Pacquiao for the fight. Pacquiao was reportedly offered a flat fee of $40 million, with no share of the pay-per-view earnings.[131] Mayweather affirmed that a 50-50 split would not be offered to Pacquiao.[132]
5/10/13 2:01 AM
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Barry_BondsMVP
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first part I agree, I believe I posted on here the article from Iole that shows the fight was a go...but Arum and Co couldn't agree to the testing.

the second part was too much finger pointing, with the advisor, Arum and Ellerbe saying this and that.

the last attempt came after the 3rd JMM fight.

5/10/13 2:05 AM
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Wasa-B
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And no offense taken, i remember the Pac camp claiming the weakening and all the back and forth and some progress seemingly made but lost patience after a while and tuned out.

As far as the cut off dates, what is the standard USADA usually goes by?
5/10/13 2:07 AM
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Barry_BondsMVP
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USADA is usually random, no cutoff...I remember Mosley complaining during 24/7 lol.

5/10/13 2:11 AM
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Wasa-B
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Barry_BondsMVP - 

first part I agree, I believe I posted on here the article from Iole that shows the fight was a go...but Arum and Co couldn't agree to the testing.

the second part was too much finger pointing, with the advisor, Arum and Ellerbe saying this and that.

the last attempt came after the 3rd JMM fight.


Let me know if im summarizing correctly:

First Part) "In an attempt to resolve their differences, the two camps agreed to mediation before a retired judge. After the mediation, Mayweather agreed to a 14-day no-blood-testing window. Pacquiao refused, only agreeing to a 24-day window.[117] On January 7, 2010 Pacquiao's promoter Bob Arum declared that the fight was canceled, offering a chance to fight Pacquiao to Joshua Clottey instead; Mayweather accepted the offer to fight Moslely"

Second Part) Everything between the above, the cancellation on Jan. 7, 2010 to the bottom of the post

Third Part) After JMM III, post Nov. 12, 2011

- Was there any progress in the 3rd attempt?
5/10/13 2:12 AM
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Wasa-B
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Barry_BondsMVP - 

USADA is usually random, no cutoff...I remember Mosley complaining during 24/7 lol.


Mosely has also been busted before, right?

But what about "Mayweather asked Pacquiao to undergo random blood and urine testing until fight day. Pacquiao agreed to give blood until 14 days before the fight, which is closer to the fight day than the 18-day cutoff in Mayweather's previous bout against Mosley."
5/10/13 2:19 AM
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Barry_BondsMVP
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looks about right bro...

from what I recall, after the third JMM fight...Manny said he wanted Floyd next in his post fight interview in the ring. Don't think Arum liked that, because 20 mins later, he's on ESPN Deportes I believe it was, saying he wants a 4th fight with JMM lol. 

Arum then went on with different complaints, saying he wanted to build a stadium in Vegas, it wouldn't be ready by May 5th in 2012. He also said the cut sustained in the fight with JMM, wouldn't heal by then either. That's when the phone call happened between Floyd/Manny, Manny agreed to the smaller cut, but Arum said no. He demanded 50/50, and no to $40 million.

Arum doesn't like Floyd or Oscar because they both left him, and became superstars. Isn't funny he can't get along with either? I wonder why lol.

these guys want to fight, it's the promoters that keep things from happening because of greed and personal issues. 

even Ariza was complaining about Arum and Koncz, he was on Fighthype saying he had a lot of crap on Arum he wouldn't release.

5/10/13 2:21 AM
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Barry_BondsMVP
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http://sports.yahoo.com/news/boxing--floyd-mayweather-and-manny-pacquiao-nearly-agreed-to-a-2010-fight.html read that bro, after the initial cut-off wasn't agreed upon..both camps were trying to get each other to agreed on different cut offs.
5/10/13 2:27 AM
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Wasa-B
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Thanks man, will check up on it....yeah, as much as a Pac fan i am, i just wanted the fight to happen period....and i realize Arum is the epitome of the scummy shade ass boxing promoter. Didnt know about the phone call either, dam! Who called who? Floyd called Manny?

I guess we'll never know but hearing that, it seems like it coulda happened ironically if left to the fighters. I take it Floyd pretty much calls the shots in his camp and that Manny perhaps was too much like Fedor in leaving his business to Arum?

I guess there were legit sticking points but that they could have made it happen if both sides wanted to. Shamne.

Thanks for the info mang..
5/10/13 2:31 AM
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Wasa-B
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Btw, BBMVP, in your opinion alone, do you think the way the negotiations transpired, casts some doubt on whether Pac was juicing? Though, if the latest he agreed to was up to 14 days, isnt that late enough to determine he wasnt able to cycle thru his training camp?

Also what about JMM's so-called 2nd puberty stage? And did that size, legit or non, help him with the 4th fight with Pac? I suppose they were that close already and that Pac just walked right into that last punch anyhow?
5/10/13 2:33 AM
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Barry_BondsMVP
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no doubt brother, it goes both ways..seemed like Manny was ready to let Floyd take the bigger cut, but Arum will never have that. Because of their dislike for eachother, they'll never put money in eachother's pockets. Yea like Fedor, Manny is too loyal to his team, Floyd is his own man, does whatever he wants. Arum controls Manny, which is sad because Manny really doesn't need him.

Floyd called Manny and told him, I'll wire you $20 million right now, and the other $20 million in a few weeks. Manny said 50/50.

5/10/13 2:38 AM
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Barry_BondsMVP
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I think Ariza is a little shady and feel Manny was likely on PED's...the guy started at 108 pounds, got dropped early in his career by a body shot lol. But he becomes a monster later on in his career. I found it ironic all of Ariza's fighters JCC, Khan, Manny have complained of leg cramps during fights lol.

I remember hearing Manny felt 7 days was too close to draw blood. He was scared of needles, but he has tats? 

I know the fourth fight they worked more on power, and JMM was working with a known drug dealer Angel Heredia.

5/10/13 2:39 AM
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Barry_BondsMVP
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Edited: 05/10/13 2:39 AM
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voted up btw Wasa-B.

never know, Floyd might of done some PED's in the past as well, who knows.

5/10/13 2:40 AM
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Wasa-B
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Barry_BondsMVP - http://sports.yahoo.com/news/boxing--floyd-mayweather-and-manny-pacquiao-nearly-agreed-to-a-2010-fight.html read that bro, after the initial cut-off wasn't agreed upon..both camps were trying to get each other to agreed on different cut offs.

"A contract sent on Dec. 11, 2009, by Golden Boy Promotions on behalf of Mayweather to Top Rank on behalf of Pacquiao proposed a 50-50 financial split between the sides for a fight that would have been held March 13, 2010."

So 50/50 was offered by GoldenBoy/Mayweather initially i guess?

"Pacquiao's side declined the 2009 contract offer because Pacquiao objected to Mayweather's request for the drug testing. Though Pacquiao has subsequently agreed to Mayweather's demands for random blood and urine testing, the sides have not been able to reach agreement on a deal. "

...because of the cut off date?

And then the he said/she said between Arum and Schaefer save for the supposed contract?

" Schaefer said he met Arum shortly before Thanksgiving in 2009 to discuss parameters of a deal, but said he didn't remember sending Top Rank a completed contract for signature that included a 50-50 purse split.

However, in a contract obtained by Yahoo! Sports, paragraph 11 under the section entitled Net Profits reads: "Net Profits shall be allocated 50/50 between GBP and TR." The contract goes on to say that net profits would include a split of "all gross revenues."

In sub-paragraph 11 (a), entitled HBO PPV Fight Night Advance, it reads, "Not withstanding the foregoing, the HBO PPV fight night advance shall be paid 50% directly to GBP and 50% directly to TR.""
5/10/13 2:42 AM
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Wasa-B
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Cool, again, thanks for the info, will carry on tomorrow....
5/10/13 2:46 AM
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Wasa-B
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Oh and usually dont vote up or down but up for you!
5/10/13 2:47 AM
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Barry_BondsMVP
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yea you nailed it buddy..money split was agreed upon, the testing/cutt-off wasn't..then like you mentioned afterwards the nagging and finger pointing wars would begin.

5/10/13 2:58 AM
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lockon
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Edited: 05/10/13 3:12 AM
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Why did no one bring up the "second puberty" garbage when the third fight took place. I don't think I'm hallucinating here, but I'm pretty fucking sure Marquez had already gained a significant amount of muscle then. Being slightly bigger in the fourth fight a year later was hardly a big deal.

Being skeptical about JMM working with Heredia is fine, but to begin spewing that stuff out a year and two fights later is such a joke. Watching Lampley get choked up immediately after Marquez's win only to throw him under the bus during his crappy fight show a week or two later is truly disgusting.
5/10/13 3:06 AM
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PoundforPound
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Edited: 05/10/13 3:10 AM
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Yeah, that Wiki is pretty much spot on. But it combines all the different attempts to make the fight over the years.

The only time when a 50/50 fight was agreeable to both it was the refusal to do the drug testing that ruined everything.

After those initial negotiations the sides kept getting more entrenched. Floyd started wanting more and more of the pie each time since he believed his PPV numbers warranted a bigger cut. And Arum kept coming up with odd bullshit like needing to build a stadium (has it been built yet?) and so on.
5/10/13 4:24 AM
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Barry_BondsMVP
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nice post lockon...plus JMM wanted to drug test for the IV fight.

and according to a source, FMJ/Guerrero exceeded a million buys.

 

http://www.fighthype.com/news/article14394.html

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