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Kickboxing UnderGround >> The truth about striking.


11/9/12 8:39 AM
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zombie prophet
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Hey guys, I've been becoming a bigger and bigger fan of striking and kickboxing in general over the last few years coming from jiu jitsu originally and slowly breaking down the 'grappling is all you need' mindset and opening up to the beauty and art that exists on the high levels in k-1, muay thai, boxing etc.

Without having any friends(beyond basic comprehension) that can talk and share info/videos etc. it's hard to really break into something and get an understanding for it when there is so much information to go through. What I was hoping is someone could break down the concepts of kickboxing for me, something that will allow me to look for these things when watching fights(right now it's hard to 'see' techniques etc. because I don't really know what's going on that well) Any suggested reading would be helpful too!

What are the fundamental concepts and how do they expand outward towards the more advanced styles?
11/9/12 11:12 AM
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sly fox
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check out jack slacks post and break downs he posts, lots of great info in there

11/9/12 6:21 PM
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seek
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I started training in 1995.

Japanese jiujitsu
Judo
Kickboxing
Boxing

Discovered BJJ a year later, and became that Guy who thought BJJ is all I needed. Got into a fight against 3 guys, BJJ saved my ass but I realized how striking could have helped me big time.

Came back to the previous arts I started with + BJJ/grappling with a focus on striking. My 2 cents:

Start with boxing, find a great coach who has strong basics. With ring experience and success if possible.

As soon as you can spar, spar and spar! But focus on applying what you learn, dont care about winning or not at this point. Care on internalizing each lesson!

Master your fundamentals, footwork, jab, right, hooks and uppercuts. Parrying, dodges and your defensive tools. Your stance and posture will make you or break you. Work on your feints, counters, feints. BREATHE!

Learn to relax even when hell breaks loose! It will only come with time and sparring.

Spar with different partners, tall, small, skinny and huge. Southpaws and orthodox. Experienced and noobs. If you spar with high level guys make sure they go down to your level, some never do and they will hurt you, so refuse to engage with them.

Use youtube and DVDs but be very selective on the information you put in your head and body. There's lots of crap too!

Dont go for fancy combos, stick to the basic ones. Work on the timing of each one. Even single strikes have their timing.

TIMING is for me the name of the game! I have seen older heavy smokers, drinkers beat the crap of younger athletes because of the timing they acquired with time and lots of ring time.



WHEN you have a sound understanding of that!

Rince and repeat with kickboxing/muaythai!

It hurts more, everywhere! Because of the weapons being more numerous. Your legs and shins will hurt, dont kick trees, just train.

When you get hurt in boxing it hurts deeply. In kickboxing, you tend to get hurt often, winning or loosing.

For both, watch lots of matches!

When ready jump on the ring, it Will make you improve a lot! Much more stress, pressure, the crowd, etc!

If people like fuck@ng Kaman, roufus or uncle mayweather have seminars around you, go, just go!

FIND A GREAT TEACHER!!!!!!!!!!! He Will save you time!


Good luck brother!

11/9/12 6:24 PM
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seek
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Get Duke Roufus DVDs!

they're awesome and they know a thing or two about striking in his family!
11/9/12 10:11 PM
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zombie prophet
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thanks for the heads up on the duke roufus dvd and jack slack's articles.

thanks for breaking it all down like that seek. Without a gym around here it's hard to process all the information out there like you said.. any info on going a little deeper about the stance? Any striking will eventually be integrated into MMA so with wrestling in mind, is something to follow as a guideline what thiago alves and allistair do staying in that tight sortve hunch with a wider base?

11/10/12 3:23 PM
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seek
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You're welcome!

I learned a lot here so if I can help, im happy to do so.

For MMA in mind and from my experience and observations:

Most fighters tend to have a stance that favor their strongest weapons.

-Wand and Overeem are hunched, they like to knee in the clinch while preventing the shoot.

-couture does not have the best stance for heavy striking, but it allows him to get close while staying safe and engage the clinch, dirty boxing and takedowns.

-fedor is more upright, it benefits his hands and is very close to his sambo/judo stance. It helped him for many years, he can fluently go from heavy punching to takedowns.

-guys like Machida have an awesome stance for evading and striking.



It is sort of oversimplified but I strongly believe that there is some truth in these descriptions.


So depending on what you want to favor choose your stance.



Then you have guys like st pierre, bj, jose aldo, Cain to name a few who are able to sort of switch stances depending on the fight and be good in every position.

But a guy like Randy with so much knowledge and experience in wrestling would be a fool to suddenly adopt a muay thai stance.
11/11/12 3:50 AM
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KiserSmash
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In Phone Post
11/12/12 6:17 AM
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zombie prophet
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Yeah man, i found a torrent for the first 2 duke roufus dvd's and they seem really helpful with fundamentals- just ordered the set.

If anyone else comes across this thread and has anything to add for beginning kickboxing/striking that will help set or stay on the right track please do.. there's mma at my gym but no legit strikers so they all want to learn flying knees and the crazy shit first but it seems like the fundamentals get lost so is it worth it to risk learning bad habits?

With a full length muay thai bag and a few hours to dedicate every day to drilling what seek said about footwork, defense, straight punches and then finding partners to get comfortable putting it together with.. is there anything else to focus on/avoid?

what stuff did it take years of experience to learn/unlearn and will set a newb on the straight path?

I'm right handed but have been drilling as southpaw to get comfortable with power leg forward for wrestling and have been watching lots of giorgio petrosyan watching for technique.

thanks
11/12/12 6:19 AM
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zombie prophet
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sent you a couple VU's btw seek thanks for the info
11/12/12 4:47 PM
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seek
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It would be awesome if Duke Roufus put some of his awesomeness in your thread!


Thanks for voting me up!

It seems to me that Cain Velasquez is someone you could model after, for MMA at least!


Oh yeah....very important at the beginning check fighters who have your body type and morphology.

If tall and lanky, Tyson style is probably not for you. : )

Sounds obvious but it might help if you dont know it yet!



11/13/12 11:48 PM
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OneScoup
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IMO watch lots of videos of fights, spar and watch instructional videos of strategy, defense, counters, etc.
11/15/12 1:46 PM
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The Sauce
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YouTube has tons of info (bad and good) but I have seen videos 10-20-30 times and always catch something new.

What are YOU working on? Then watch how bad ass fighters do it on YouTube. I honestly get a lot of ideas from watching fighting and pad work on YouTube! Phone Post
11/16/12 6:52 PM
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zealot66
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Not the hugest Rufus fan but I hear his instructionals are good. I would also utilize youtube and watch as many real muay thai fights from thailand and Scup K-1 max and legit big time kickboxing fights you can. You start to see stuff.

11/29/12 8:43 PM
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ashadel
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zombie prophet - Hey guys, I've been becoming a bigger and bigger fan of striking and kickboxing in general over the last few years coming from jiu jitsu originally and slowly breaking down the 'grappling is all you need' mindset and opening up to the beauty and art that exists on the high levels in k-1, muay thai, boxing etc.

Without having any friends(beyond basic comprehension) that can talk and share info/videos etc. it's hard to really break into something and get an understanding for it when there is so much information to go through. What I was hoping is someone could break down the concepts of kickboxing for me, something that will allow me to look for these things when watching fights(right now it's hard to 'see' techniques etc. because I don't really know what's going on that well) Any suggested reading would be helpful too!

What are the fundamental concepts and how do they expand outward towards the more advanced styles?

Usually I don't post much on these forums but I feel your pain. I've been away at school for a couple of years and only get to train over breaks. So about a year ago I grilled my instructors for things I could do on my own without a gym.

First, as mentioned above is timing! Its huge and really its the big difference in a fight, especially a brawl.

Also try to break bad habits while shadow boxing. This is something you can do on your own, either shadowbox in front of a mirror or film yourself or just be conscious of your movements. You'll catch things like your feet stop right before you throw a cross, or you drop your hands during hooks, or my friends biggest tell- he pumps his guard up really quick right before a combination. Try to fix little things like that.

You can make drills like taping a pad up to the end of a wall or a bed post (dorm rooms had lofts) and practicing knee accuracy and form, you don't have to kill it, just throw 60-70% and get the entrance, form, and exit down well.

Finally, get a friend. MMA is getting bigger so tons of people want to learn. Find someone who genuinely wants to learn, and not for the purpose of beating up guys at the bar, and train with him. Watch videos, and break things down together. It gives you a live target and teaching a skill is the best way to retain the skill.

Goodluck man! hope this helps.

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