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11/13/12 11:41 PM
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Zenoplata
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Edited: 05/15/13 11:42 AM
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R + L = J

Anyone who has done some reading online about different hidden plots and secrets in A Song of Ice and Fire is likely shaking their head at the inclusion of this theory. They’re probably yelling “This theory is SO OBVIOUS,” at the top of their lungs right now.

However, for people who have just read the books without partaking in the online community, the theory that Jon Snow might actually be the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark may have never occurred to them!

What do we know? We know that Robert’s Rebellion was triggered when Prince Rhaegar Targaryen kidnapped Lyanna Stark (Ned’s sister and Robert’s fiance). Rhaegar kept her hidden in a place called the Tower of Joy. After Rhaegar was slain and Robert’s faction was victorious, Ned sought out his sister.

The tower was guarded by members of the King’s Guard, Westeros’ equivalent of the Secret Service. Ned’s contingent of knights barely managed to best the King’s Guard units stationed outside the tower. Ned entered the Tower of Joy only to see his sister, bloody and dying. She made him promise her something—what the promise was, specifically, is unknown.

Some months later, Ned showed up back at Winterfell with a his “bastard” child that he had with another woman.

Proponents of the Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon theory claim that Lyanna asked Ned to promise he’d take care of her son with Rhaegar or some similar vow. Ned only lied about the child being his to protect it, for if anyone knew the child was 1/2 Targaryen then King Robert—who just risked life and limb to topple the Targaryens—would’ve surely had the child murdered.

Sandor = the Gravedigger

 

  • The Elder Brother of the monestary, while speaking to Brienne, seems to know an awful lot about the mind and soul of Sandor Clegane. Perhaps too much for having only briefly spoke to him as he died.
  • The gravedigger at the monestary is a large man, bigger than Brienne. [1]
  • The gravedigger, along with all the other novices, wears a scarf which covers his face. This would have made it impossible for Brienne to have seen the distinctive burns attributed to Sandor.
  • The gravedigger has a healing injury similar to the one that Sandor received at the Inn at the Crossroads.
  • Brienne notices the gravedigger bend down to pet a dog, which many readers believe is a hint left by GRRM.
  • The Elder Brother is very vague while speaking of the death of The Hound. It is possible that he is speaking metaphorically and that he believes the violent and angry version of Sandor has died and now the new Sandor lives on. This is supported by the fact that the Elder Brother mentions that he 'died' on the Trident when he used to be a warrior. In reality his 'death' only consisted of a major life change (as he believes Sandor has taken).
  • The presence of a horse that matches the description of Sandor's black stallion Stranger in appearance and temperament on the Quite Isle is another clue. It has been previously stated that only Sandor could lead or ride Stranger as the horse is exceptionally hard to handle.

The Mountain = Robert Strong

Alleras = Sarella

What else do you guys got?

Ned really alive?

Varys and Illyrio Blackfyres?

11/13/12 11:43 PM
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junon
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what?
11/13/12 11:44 PM
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turducken
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syrio is really varys
11/13/12 11:46 PM
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Zenoplata
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turducken - syrio is really varys

So Syrio is really Ja'Qen, Dany, Ned AND Varys? Holy shit...

11/13/12 11:46 PM
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Zenoplata
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Edited: 05/15/13 11:48 AM
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Jojen’s blood is being fed to Bran

From Buzzfeed:

Readers of the books will know all about Jojen Reed. Viewers of the show who haven’t been exposed to the novels will be meeting the character for the first time this season.

What’s his deal? He’s a wise-beyond-his-years, sagacious kid with a gift called the “greensight.” Him and his sister Meera accompany Bran and Hodor on their exploits to points north of the Wall.

But there might be a bit more to that. When Bran meets the Children of the Forrest, they might be making him do unsavory things…like eating Jojen’s blood that’s been ground up in paste.

From westeros.org:

I recently reread the Bran and Reed chapters in the COTF caves with Bloodraven and a sneaking suspicion I had in my first read through has solidified into something I would be surprised to find out not to be true. This being: Jojen Reed was sacrificed to the Old Gods and then fed to Bran in the weirwood paste in order to awaken his latent ability to warg into weirwood.

Now, you have to read between the lines in order to come to this conclusion, but I believe the hints are disturbingly clear in retrospect. Jojen's deepening gloom and sense of his impending demise, Bran seeing ancient Men sacrificing humans to the Old Gods and then tasting their blood, Bran's initial perception that the weirwood paste had blood in it and his initial revulsion at its taste, and finally Bran's looking for Jojen and Meera as his last chapter in the book closes and not finding them. Also, to a lesser extent, the ancient bones of animals and humans scattered through the caves.

Add on top of this a broader theme in Martin's work; that magic comes with a price. Dany's sacrifice of her unborn child to "save" Drogo and burning of the witch to wake the dragons. The burnt human sacrifices that the Fire God's disciples give him for power. Craster sacrificing his sons to the Others. Bran having to partake in a human sacrifice for his expanded powers would fit perfectly into this pattern. Which is why, along with the context clues in his chapters, I believe Jojen was that sacrifice. Which is dark. And creepy. And kind of pretty freakin' cool.

 

11/13/12 11:48 PM
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junon
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a series of books.
11/13/12 11:50 PM
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Zenoplata
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Edited: 05/15/13 11:51 AM
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The Mountain = Robert Strong

 

  • Qyburn lost his Maester's chain for conducting unethical experiments on humans.
  • It is mentioned at Harrenhal by Gendry that Qyburn is rumored to have knowledge of black magic and necromancy. [1]
  • It is never said what happens to Gregor's body, except that his head is sent to Doran Martell.
  • Qyburn says he is making an "undefeatable champion" for Cersei Lannister. Though none of his work is shown or described in detail, it's known he commissions a very large suit of armor for an unknown purpose.
  • Qyburn convinces Cersei to allow him to experiment on the dying Ser Gregor Clegane, among other prisoners of the Red Keep.
  • Mace Tyrell and Randyll Tarly have doubts about Ser Robert Strong's identity. Meryn Trant claims to never see him eat or drink and Boros Blount says he's never seen him use a privy.[2]
  • Strong is said to never speak. Qyburn claims that Ser Robert made a vow of silence, which sounds like a cover story.[3]
  • While the head of Ser Gregor is supposed to have been sent to Dorne,[4] and Doran Martell remarks that the skull he receives is certainly large enough to have belonged to Ser Gregor, Ser Robert apparently never removes his helm, so there is no conclusive proof that he actually has a head.[2]
  • Ser Gregor championed for Cersei Lannister before Ser Robert.[3] She may well trust in Ser Robert Strong simply because he is physically impressive, but it is remarkable that she stakes her life on someone that she barely knows.
11/13/12 11:53 PM
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AlphaOnBetaBlockers
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Cold Hands isn't Benjen, IMO. Phone Post
11/13/12 11:55 PM
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Zenoplata
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I don't think so either. BR/the Three-Eyed Crow says that Coldhands was a member of the Night's Watch that they killed hundreds of years ago. Imo Benjen is probably going to show up in the next book, alive or dead. I think Bran or the Reed children might recognize Benjen regardless.

11/13/12 11:58 PM
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PR
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Balon really just did fall to his death.
11/14/12 12:02 AM
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Zenoplata
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Yeah, I'm not a big fan of the Faceless Men/Euron theories. I think the Faceless Men are involved in something else with the dragons, although if Euron DID pay them with a dragons' egg I could see them bringing it back to Varys/Illyrio if they're involved together. Although if they were involved in a hypothetical Blackfyre rebellion then I don't see why they'd need Arya Stark.

11/14/12 12:04 AM
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TheRealJoker
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Euron will take
Cersei as his salt wife. Victarion will be all butthurt about it. Phone Post
11/14/12 12:06 AM
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AlphaOnBetaBlockers
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Faceless men are involved with the Iron Bank. They are involved with getting a Targaryen back on the throne. Phone Post
11/14/12 12:07 AM
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Zenoplata
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Do you think Euron's horn will actually control dragons?

11/14/12 12:09 AM
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Zenoplata
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AlphaOnBetaBlockers -  Faceless men are involved with the Iron Bank. They are involved with getting a Targaryen back on the throne. Phone Post

If all of the signs are true, Illyrio and Varys are trying to get a Blackfyre pretender (possibly Illyrio's son) on the throne, do you think they care if it's a Targ or Blackfyre?

And weren't they trying to get Stannis on the throne in the last book?

11/14/12 12:11 AM
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War Potato
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I feel like I've forgotten everything. Who is alleras? Phone Post
11/14/12 12:14 AM
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junon
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dunno but Euron is about to shake things up.
11/14/12 12:17 AM
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djsolar36
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War Potato - I feel like I've forgotten everything. Who is alleras? Phone Post
I had to look that up too. So many damn characters in these books Phone Post
11/14/12 12:27 AM
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MMAxNate
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Zenoplata -
AlphaOnBetaBlockers -  Faceless men are involved with the Iron Bank. They are involved with getting a Targaryen back on the throne. Phone Post

If all of the signs are true, Illyrio and Varys are trying to get a Blackfyre pretender (possibly Illyrio's son) on the throne, do you think they care if it's a Targ or Blackfyre?

And weren't they trying to get Stannis on the throne in the last book?

Not get him on the throne, just delay the war until Viseries had his army. Phone Post
11/14/12 12:35 AM
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Zenoplata
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War Potato -  I feel like I've forgotten everything. Who is alleras? Phone Post

Alleras is the "Sphinx" from the introduction chapter with Pate the apprentice, the "boy" with the bow and arrow. It's believed Alleras is really Sallera, the missing Sand-snake and one of Oberyn's daughters. It would make sense that she would be skilled with a bow, and Maester Aemon tells Samwell before he dies that "The Sphinx is the riddle not the riddler" after having his famous Targ visions.

She/he is the one to greet Samwell at Oldtown and bring him away from the other Maesters that she believes will try to kill Samwell (perhaps because Ja'qen is posing as Pate and has been killing people? I'm not sure.)

11/14/12 12:38 AM
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Zenoplata
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MMAxNate - 
Zenoplata -
AlphaOnBetaBlockers -  Faceless men are involved with the Iron Bank. They are involved with getting a Targaryen back on the throne. Phone Post

If all of the signs are true, Illyrio and Varys are trying to get a Blackfyre pretender (possibly Illyrio's son) on the throne, do you think they care if it's a Targ or Blackfyre?

And weren't they trying to get Stannis on the throne in the last book?

Not get him on the throne, just delay the war until Viseries had his army. Phone Post

Viserys is dead. The Iron Bank approached Stannis during the last book about overthrowing Tommen since Cersei scoffed at her debts. The last we know about anyone with a connection to the Iron Bank is that they are on their way with a contract back to Braavos and that Stannis is either dead/captured by Ramsay or that Ramsay sent a letter to Jon Snow lying about everything.

11/14/12 12:55 AM
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FatChrist Magic
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I have three observations from the books that are kind of theoretical.

1. In Game of Thrones it is noted that Hodor is a great grandson of Old Nan, and that she is related to the Frey's. It is not clear what her relationship is with the Freys, but I theorize she was Walder's first wife or perhaps his twin sister. Both Walder and Old Nan are referred to as the oldest living people in Westeros (RIP Aemon T.).

2. There is something up with Patchface. In A Storm of Swords, Davos goes to Dragonstone to kill Melisandre and runs into Shireen and Patchface playing tag. Patchface comes up to Davos and sings a little rhyming song that is a direct refernce to the Red Wedding that has not yet occurred at that point in the story.

Fool's blood, king's blood, blood on the maiden's thigh, but chains for the guests and chains for the bridegroom, aye aye.

The shadows come to dance, my lord, dance my lord, dance my lord," he sang, hopping from one foot to the other and back again, "The shadows come to stay, my lord, stay my lord, stay my lord.

Plus he lived with the fish people and all that.

3. It is alluded that Shae is the granddaughter of the gypsy witch Maggy the Frog who curses the young Cersei Lannister.
11/14/12 1:13 AM
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xg47
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Coldhands = the Night's King Phone Post
11/14/12 1:41 AM
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War Potato
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FatChrist Magic - I have three observations from the books that are kind of theoretical.

1. In Game of Thrones it is noted that Hodor is a great grandson of Old Nan, and that she is related to the Frey's. It is not clear what her relationship is with the Freys, but I theorize she was Walder's first wife or perhaps his twin sister. Both Walder and Old Nan are referred to as the oldest living people in Westeros (RIP Aemon T.).

2. There is something up with Patchface. In A Storm of Swords, Davos goes to Dragonstone to kill Melisandre and runs into Shireen and Patchface playing tag. Patchface comes up to Davos and sings a little rhyming song that is a direct refernce to the Red Wedding that has not yet occurred at that point in the story.

Fool's blood, king's blood, blood on the maiden's thigh, but chains for the guests and chains for the bridegroom, aye aye.

The shadows come to dance, my lord, dance my lord, dance my lord," he sang, hopping from one foot to the other and back again, "The shadows come to stay, my lord, stay my lord, stay my lord.

Plus he lived with the fish people and all that.

3. It is alluded that Shae is the granddaughter of the gypsy witch Maggy the Frog who curses the young Cersei Lannister.
Interdasting Phone Post
11/14/12 1:51 AM
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cnAKA
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jon snow is rheagar targaryans son

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