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11/21/12 10:54 AM
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Adventure Runner
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Mencken - 
canuck34 - 
irishman84 - I thought there were multiple instances of characters saying Snow looked alot like Ned?
Yes, but surely Ned looked like his sister.

And the reason Ned would want to hide him is because he saw what happened to the other targ children and Robert approved of it. Phone Post

 

You can follow the chain of looks haha.  Ned says Arya looks like Lyanna.  Arya looks like Jon.  Therefore, Jon looks like Lyanna.

 

One interesting note is Margaery is said to look like Lyanna.  I'm taking this from the Wiki though....I don't remember that from the books.  If so, I wonder if there's a connection

 

Edit: It's apparently here: In Chapter 27 of GOT Ned said that Renly had shown him a portrait of Margaery and had said that several people had remarked how much she looked like Lyanna.  When Ned said she didn't bear any resemblance at all, Renly had appeared very disappointed.  Ned said he thought this a very odd occurrence.


No on Margaery. Renly shows it to Ned saying "she is said to look like Lyanna" and Ned either says or thinks "not at all, homie".

11/21/12 10:55 AM
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Adventure Runner
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^^ Ooops. My B. I should read the full post before responding. :)
11/21/12 11:36 AM
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leifdawg
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The Targaryans were known for practicing bigamy so, some people theorize that they were married in secret.
11/21/12 12:25 PM
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Zekolas
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MickColins - 

"Ned would have no reason to hide he is raising Robert/Lyanna's bastard and lie about his origin as Jon would be just like Eric Storm on of robberts other bastard kids."

 

Sure he would. You think the second wife would let that kid live? History is full of the wives of kings killing older kids of their husbands so their biological kid inherits the throne. 


He would still be a bastard and have not right to the throne, just like Eric storm.

Robert and Lyanna never wed. In fact lyanna was not really too keen on marrying robert and would not have done it seceratly. She was worried about Roberts whoring ways as he already had bastard children running around.

Lyanna's heart was stolen by Rhangar Targarian and Ben Stark even teased her about this at the tourney that she was googly eyed over him.
11/21/12 12:30 PM
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Zekolas
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Mencken - 

I suppose it could be as simple as Renly wanted it in order to sway Robert into dropping Cersei for Lyanna.


Yes when Renly showed Ned a pic of Margery and asked if she looked like Lyanna it was because Renly wanted Robert to drop Cercie and marry Margery.

That way the knight of the flowers could become part of the king guard to protect his sister and live in kings landing with Renly so they could be gay together.

11/21/12 1:12 PM
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Zenoplata
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thirdleg - "Childish?

Fuck off guy, you may very well be retarded.

No one can make the claim that Ramsay or the Mountain are redeemable characters with many layers of depth. Their intention is to be monstrous bad guys for other characters to rally against."

In your childish opinion.

"Not every single character in the story is hyper dynamic. Static characters have their place as well, in a story with this many characters it'd be childish to think that every single one ought to be dynamic."

I never said they were.


You make absolutely no valid points. I can see why this forum community considers you such a shitstain.

11/21/12 1:14 PM
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Zenoplata
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it wouldn't surprise me if Gendry came into more prominence in the next couple of books. He's been kept around for a reason.

Also did we ever find out for certain who hired the assassin to kill Bran? I know it has been heavily implied that it was Joffrey.

11/21/12 1:26 PM
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Mencken
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Zenoplata - 

it wouldn't surprise me if Gendry came into more prominence in the next couple of books. He's been kept around for a reason.

Also did we ever find out for certain who hired the assassin to kill Bran? I know it has been heavily implied that it was Joffrey.


We know it was Joffrey as much as we know anything in the story.  It is VERY strongly implied

11/21/12 2:45 PM
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Flyers179
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Zekolas - 
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"Ned would have no reason to hide he is raising Robert/Lyanna's bastard and lie about his origin as Jon would be just like Eric Storm on of robberts other bastard kids."

 

Sure he would. You think the second wife would let that kid live? History is full of the wives of kings killing older kids of their husbands so their biological kid inherits the throne. 


He would still be a bastard and have not right to the throne, just like Eric storm.

Robert and Lyanna never wed. In fact lyanna was not really too keen on marrying robert and would not have done it seceratly. She was worried about Roberts whoring ways as he already had bastard children running around.

Lyanna's heart was stolen by Rhangar Targarian and Ben Stark even teased her about this at the tourney that she was googly eyed over him.

There is nothing in the books that says Rhaegar and Lyanna never wed. That is a baseless assumption. After Rhaegar found out Elia could no longer have children it is perfectly reasonable to assume he married again in order to have a third prince/princess.
11/21/12 2:50 PM
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dizz
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Who here thinks Jaime becomes an extremely proficient swordsman with his left hand? The Ilyn Payne practice, plus the Halfhand backstory, makes me think its possible.

 

On the other hand, I could see him becoming more of a badass general, like Stannis, who no longer is involved in direct combat but instead is a killer strategist

 

What do you guys think

11/21/12 3:57 PM
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Awesomo4000
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Edited: 11/21/12 4:11 PM
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Adventure Runner - Boom. Just found what I'm talking about online.

The fifth room, finally, shows a man very much alike her brother Viserys, except that he is taller and has eyes of dark indigo rather than lilac. He is speaking to a woman who is nursing a newborn babe, telling her that the child's name should be Aegon and saying that "What better name for a king?". The woman asks him if he will make a song for the child, and he replies that he has a song and that "He is the prince that was promised, and his is the song of ice and fire.". He appears to look at Dany then, as if seeing her, and then he adds that "There must be one more," and "The dragon has three heads.".

I was at work and didn't have the passage in front of me so I couldn't reference it, but you're absolutely right, Rhaegar does say Aegon.

In which case, Rhaegar's statement (if correct) would not be evidence that Jon is Azor Ahai, and, would rather be suggestive that he isn't.

That said, I still think it's likely that Jon is Azor Ahai, and my guess is that Rhaegar was mistaken about which of his sons would grow up to be the prince that was promised.

I guess I find Melissandre's visions to be much weightier on the issue, though I freely admit, the case isn't as strong as I misremembered it to be =P.

Edit: tried to clean up a punctuation error and quote got effed. sorry
11/21/12 4:02 PM
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canuck34
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dizz -

Who here thinks Jaime becomes an extremely proficient swordsman with his left hand? The Ilyn Payne practice, plus the Halfhand backstory, makes me think its possible.

 

On the other hand, I could see him becoming more of a badass general, like Stannis, who no longer is involved in direct combat but instead is a killer strategist

 

What do you guys think

I think Jamie will become a badass with his left hand for sure. Methinks Jamie will kill a lot of bad people in the next book with Brienne. Phone Post
11/21/12 4:08 PM
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Awesomo4000
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Flyers179 - 
Zekolas - 
MickColins - 

"Ned would have no reason to hide he is raising Robert/Lyanna's bastard and lie about his origin as Jon would be just like Eric Storm on of robberts other bastard kids."

 

Sure he would. You think the second wife would let that kid live? History is full of the wives of kings killing older kids of their husbands so their biological kid inherits the throne. 


He would still be a bastard and have not right to the throne, just like Eric storm.

Robert and Lyanna never wed. In fact lyanna was not really too keen on marrying robert and would not have done it seceratly. She was worried about Roberts whoring ways as he already had bastard children running around.

Lyanna's heart was stolen by Rhangar Targarian and Ben Stark even teased her about this at the tourney that she was googly eyed over him.

There is nothing in the books that says Rhaegar and Lyanna never wed. That is a baseless assumption. After Rhaegar found out Elia could no longer have children it is perfectly reasonable to assume he married again in order to have a third prince/princess.

There's also no evidence to suggest that they did wed. Absent a specific pronouncement that Rhaegar and Lyanna never wed, your statement would always be true.

Why would Rhaegar have to wed Lyanna at all? He could have just taken her as his consort/mistress if he really wanted to.
11/21/12 4:10 PM
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Mencken
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Flyers179 - 
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MickColins - 

"Ned would have no reason to hide he is raising Robert/Lyanna's bastard and lie about his origin as Jon would be just like Eric Storm on of robberts other bastard kids."

 

Sure he would. You think the second wife would let that kid live? History is full of the wives of kings killing older kids of their husbands so their biological kid inherits the throne. 


He would still be a bastard and have not right to the throne, just like Eric storm.

Robert and Lyanna never wed. In fact lyanna was not really too keen on marrying robert and would not have done it seceratly. She was worried about Roberts whoring ways as he already had bastard children running around.

Lyanna's heart was stolen by Rhangar Targarian and Ben Stark even teased her about this at the tourney that she was googly eyed over him.

There is nothing in the books that says Rhaegar and Lyanna never wed. That is a baseless assumption. After Rhaegar found out Elia could no longer have children it is perfectly reasonable to assume he married again in order to have a third prince/princess.

There is nothing in the books that says Ned and Lyanna didn't wed.  That would be a baseless assumption too

 

11/21/12 4:11 PM
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Mencken
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Awesomo4000 - 
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MickColins - 

"Ned would have no reason to hide he is raising Robert/Lyanna's bastard and lie about his origin as Jon would be just like Eric Storm on of robberts other bastard kids."

 

Sure he would. You think the second wife would let that kid live? History is full of the wives of kings killing older kids of their husbands so their biological kid inherits the throne. 


He would still be a bastard and have not right to the throne, just like Eric storm.

Robert and Lyanna never wed. In fact lyanna was not really too keen on marrying robert and would not have done it seceratly. She was worried about Roberts whoring ways as he already had bastard children running around.

Lyanna's heart was stolen by Rhangar Targarian and Ben Stark even teased her about this at the tourney that she was googly eyed over him.

There is nothing in the books that says Rhaegar and Lyanna never wed. That is a baseless assumption. After Rhaegar found out Elia could no longer have children it is perfectly reasonable to assume he married again in order to have a third prince/princess.

There's also no evidence to suggest that they did wed. Absent a specific pronouncement that Rhaegar and Lyanna never wed, your statement would always be true.

Why would Rhaegar have to wed Lyanna at all? He could have just taken her as his consort/mistress if he really wanted to.

In terms of Jon's legitimate claim to the throne, a marriage would be important. 

11/21/12 4:12 PM
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Mencken
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canuck34 - 
dizz -

Who here thinks Jaime becomes an extremely proficient swordsman with his left hand? The Ilyn Payne practice, plus the Halfhand backstory, makes me think its possible.

 

On the other hand, I could see him becoming more of a badass general, like Stannis, who no longer is involved in direct combat but instead is a killer strategist

 

What do you guys think

I think Jamie will become a badass with his left hand for sure. Methinks Jamie will kill a lot of bad people in the next book with Brienne. Phone Post

Jaime will get a magical hand, imo.  A golden hand that works like a real one, and he'll be badass again that way

11/21/12 4:16 PM
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dizz
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Mencken - 
canuck34 - 
dizz -

Who here thinks Jaime becomes an extremely proficient swordsman with his left hand? The Ilyn Payne practice, plus the Halfhand backstory, makes me think its possible.

 

On the other hand, I could see him becoming more of a badass general, like Stannis, who no longer is involved in direct combat but instead is a killer strategist

 

What do you guys think

I think Jamie will become a badass with his left hand for sure. Methinks Jamie will kill a lot of bad people in the next book with Brienne. Phone Post

Jaime will get a magical hand, imo.  A golden hand that works like a real one, and he'll be badass again that way


I bet it would be awesome to jerk off with a golden magical hand

11/21/12 4:17 PM
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Mencken
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I'm not so sure.  I stuck my dick in a marble statue's hand once and it wasn't as magical as you'd think

11/21/12 4:18 PM
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canuck34
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Mencken -

I'm not so sure.  I stuck my dick in a marble statue's hand once and it wasn't as magical as you'd think

Lol! That makes up for our disagreement on the mars thread! Phone Post
11/21/12 4:30 PM
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dizz
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We've all been there

11/21/12 4:43 PM
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Flyers179
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Mencken - 
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"Ned would have no reason to hide he is raising Robert/Lyanna's bastard and lie about his origin as Jon would be just like Eric Storm on of robberts other bastard kids."

 

Sure he would. You think the second wife would let that kid live? History is full of the wives of kings killing older kids of their husbands so their biological kid inherits the throne. 


He would still be a bastard and have not right to the throne, just like Eric storm.

Robert and Lyanna never wed. In fact lyanna was not really too keen on marrying robert and would not have done it seceratly. She was worried about Roberts whoring ways as he already had bastard children running around.

Lyanna's heart was stolen by Rhangar Targarian and Ben Stark even teased her about this at the tourney that she was googly eyed over him.

There is nothing in the books that says Rhaegar and Lyanna never wed. That is a baseless assumption. After Rhaegar found out Elia could no longer have children it is perfectly reasonable to assume he married again in order to have a third prince/princess.

There's also no evidence to suggest that they did wed. Absent a specific pronouncement that Rhaegar and Lyanna never wed, your statement would always be true.

Why would Rhaegar have to wed Lyanna at all? He could have just taken her as his consort/mistress if he really wanted to.

In terms of Jon's legitimate claim to the throne, a marriage would be important. 


I never asserted that they were married. I just it is perfectly reasonable possibility they did.

I occasionally feel like I am debating 12 year olds here due to reading comprehension, which blows my mind considering you've all read 5 very long books on this subject.

As Mencken just said, if Jon Snow is Rhaegar's son, it is much more likely he has a claim to the throne (for the purpose of the story) than 'Oh btw he is also part Targaryen'.

Do you think he would go to war over his mistress? Would Lyanna be so deeply infatuated with him that she was fine playing third wheel to the Martel princess? Would Rhaegar assign three Kingsguard to protect his mistress/bastard child?

The fact is it is way more likely that if R+L=J is true that R+L = Married. It is a more sensible way to develop that story. Yes it is an assumption, but it makes a hell of a lot more sense than simply "They just fucked".
11/21/12 4:44 PM
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Mencken
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^That's a valid point.  Why would the three Kingsguard be assigned to a bastard? 

11/21/12 4:52 PM
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Mencken
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As someone said before, I'm not sure why Ned would feel the need to lie to Robert about Robert's bastard.  I think it much more likely that Ned would lie to save the life of a Targaryen baby....and even more so if that baby was legitimate. 

11/21/12 4:54 PM
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dizz
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Flyers179 - 
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MickColins - 

"Ned would have no reason to hide he is raising Robert/Lyanna's bastard and lie about his origin as Jon would be just like Eric Storm on of robberts other bastard kids."

 

Sure he would. You think the second wife would let that kid live? History is full of the wives of kings killing older kids of their husbands so their biological kid inherits the throne. 


He would still be a bastard and have not right to the throne, just like Eric storm.

Robert and Lyanna never wed. In fact lyanna was not really too keen on marrying robert and would not have done it seceratly. She was worried about Roberts whoring ways as he already had bastard children running around.

Lyanna's heart was stolen by Rhangar Targarian and Ben Stark even teased her about this at the tourney that she was googly eyed over him.

There is nothing in the books that says Rhaegar and Lyanna never wed. That is a baseless assumption. After Rhaegar found out Elia could no longer have children it is perfectly reasonable to assume he married again in order to have a third prince/princess.

There's also no evidence to suggest that they did wed. Absent a specific pronouncement that Rhaegar and Lyanna never wed, your statement would always be true.

Why would Rhaegar have to wed Lyanna at all? He could have just taken her as his consort/mistress if he really wanted to.

In terms of Jon's legitimate claim to the throne, a marriage would be important. 


I never asserted that they were married. I just it is perfectly reasonable possibility they did.

I occasionally feel like I am debating 12 year olds here due to reading comprehension, which blows my mind considering you've all read 5 very long books on this subject.

As Mencken just said, if Jon Snow is Rhaegar's son, it is much more likely he has a claim to the throne (for the purpose of the story) than 'Oh btw he is also part Targaryen'.

Do you think he would go to war over his mistress? Would Lyanna be so deeply infatuated with him that she was fine playing third wheel to the Martel princess? Would Rhaegar assign three Kingsguard to protect his mistress/bastard child?

The fact is it is way more likely that if R+L=J is true that R+L = Married. It is a more sensible way to develop that story. Yes it is an assumption, but it makes a hell of a lot more sense than simply "They just fucked".

.

11/21/12 4:56 PM
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MickColins
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Mencken -

^That's a valid point.  Why would the three Kingsguard be assigned to a bastard? 

Maybe they weren't protecting her, maybe they were guarding her and she was a prisoner. Phone Post

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