UnderGround Forums
 

OtherGround Forums >> Song of Ice+Fire Fan Theories plead your case here


12/4/12 2:12 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
dizz
508 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/12/10
Posts: 5633
Mencken - 

Bran is marrying a tree, so he won't be eligible


Good point. But that would make Manderly's plan (sending Davos to get Rickon) make even more sense

12/4/12 2:17 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Mencken
333 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/14/02
Posts: 35015

Yah, Rickon will probably be the rallying point for the North. 

However, just to go back to Sansa's rights....Manderly and others wouldn't really think of raising her as the heir because she isn't in their hands.  It would be silly of them to say she is the leader of the north when she is either missing or in Lannister control.  They need a free Stark to be the rallying point....so I wonder if the desire for Rickon is also an acceptance due to that.

However, the north is probably patriachal and so it would go to Bran/Rickon. 

12/4/12 2:19 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Papa BUrgandy
101 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 2/26/06
Posts: 2306
Plus I think right now, Ramsey Bolton is married to "Arya" and they are claiming Winterfell
12/4/12 2:51 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Mencken
333 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/14/02
Posts: 35021

Yah, but the Bolton plot is a house of cards that will quickly fall. 

12/4/12 5:23 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Zenoplata
160 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 6/14/10
Posts: 9815

The only part in the book that made me legit laugh out loud was when they described Rickon attacking people in the crypts.

12/4/12 5:26 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Mencken
333 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/14/02
Posts: 35044

Tyrion's wit has made me laugh a few times.  And the boner I got when Sansa's clothign was ripped off was funny too. 

 

12/4/12 5:29 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Zenoplata
160 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 6/14/10
Posts: 9816

There are a ton of people that should be able to recognize Arya as not exactly Arya.

Is Jaime currently aware of his father's plot?

12/4/12 5:32 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Mencken
333 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/14/02
Posts: 35046
Zenoplata - 

There are a ton of people that should be able to recognize Arya as not exactly Arya.

Is Jaime currently aware of his father's plot?


There are a lot of people that should be able to recognize it...but without an alternate cause to rally around, what would be the benefit in voicing it?  So long as the Boltons are unopposed, the plot will stand. 

12/4/12 6:03 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Ari2
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/26/03
Posts: 15773
Zenoplata - 

There is a passage where Tommen describes how Lady Whiskers stole a mouse Ser Pounce had caught. This furthermore makes me believe they are intended to symbolize Cersei and Jaime. Cersei ends up stealing Jaime's right to Castle Rock - in fact when Tommen tells the story she tells him how the strong take advantage of the weak. Once Jaime returned with his hand severed she is constantly describing him as weak and how she will use him etc.

I was also thinking, what if this is a more direct allusion to something? Varys use to describe his "little birds" as "little mice", there is a character named The Mad Mouse, and I believe Arya has been described as little mouse. It could be possible something happens where Arya comes to kill Cersei, Jaime catches her and intends to send her back to Winterfell before Cersei steals her from him.

Could be something else of course, but I think the kittens are a very intriguing symbol in the books.


and cats are associated with the Lannisters.

The LION of Casterly Rock
12/4/12 6:50 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Zenoplata
160 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 6/14/10
Posts: 9817

Yeah... Jaime, Cersei and Tyrion are Lannisters brah.

12/4/12 7:08 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
nottheface
129 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 5/2/02
Posts: 14982
Zenoplata - 

Another thought I had.

The Direwolves represent the Stark children.

Grey Wind shared the same fate as Robb. Ghost and Jon Snow are linked in many ways, Lady's death represented Sansa's rise from a naive wannabe-princess to a legitimate player in the game, Shaggy Dog is wild and ill-tempered like Rickon and Summer acts similar to Bran.

So where is Nymeria? She was forced to flee in order to escape death - just as Arya was. But what happened after Nymeria fled? She slowly rose in power over the other wolves, gathering a horde of them to prowl the forests. if Arya is on her way back to Westeros, is it possible that she is the one that rallies the North as some sort of Joan of Arc type figure? There is always the possibility that she leads the wolves directly.


I think the wolves are allegorical.

Nymeria/Arya = "the lost wolf" - deadly, lost and wild, forced to fend for themselves they become deadly killers in their own right. Arya has a higher body count than many more physically dangerous characters.

Lady/Sansa = "the dead wolf" - Sansa lost her wolf, she's lost her fighting spirit, and the wildness of the north. She is a pawn in the game, civilized and at the mercy of others.

Ghost/Jon = "the stranger/the lone wolf" - perpetual outsiders that are strong and capable in their own right. The bond between the two are clear

Shaggy/Rickon = "The feral wolf" - Without a guidance they've both become wild dogs. Scavenger dogs.

Summer/Bran = "The wise wolf" - At this point they're practically the same character

Grey Wind/Robb - "The young wolf" - heir apparent to Winterfell, they are proud warriors that people admire and respect. They share the same fate.
12/4/12 7:14 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
dizz
508 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/12/10
Posts: 5636

I agree with your assessment of each except Sansa. I think, on the contrary, that she's learning to play the game, and she's becoming more and more dangerous

12/4/12 7:54 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Zenoplata
160 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 6/14/10
Posts: 9819

I think the reason Grey Wind is named well.. Grey Wind is to show Robb's sudden maturity. He is forced to grow up suddenly and make very adult decisions.

 

12/4/12 9:57 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Flyers179
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/9/05
Posts: 1716
Zenoplata -

I think the reason Grey Wind is named well.. Grey Wind is to show Robb's sudden maturity. He is forced to grow up suddenly and make very adult decisions.

 

Or because it sounds fucking awesome! Phone Post
12/5/12 12:53 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
nottheface
129 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 5/2/02
Posts: 14986
dizz - 

I agree with your assessment of each except Sansa. I think, on the contrary, that she's learning to play the game, and she's becoming more and more dangerous


I think she'll eventually develop into her own person, but I think initially the loss of Lady represented what I wrote above. Another theme in the book is how the "old guard" and those who cling to the old ways are shown to be antiquated and are dying off. It doesn't matter if it's Ned and his honor, Tywin Lannister and his blue blood aristocracy, or Balon Greyjoy and his return to the old ways. The winners are the ones who can embrace new thinking. Tyrion, Danny, Arya, etc. Even Jon is getting faced with ideas that challenge his ways of thinking.

I think Sansa losing Lady might eventually represent a new way for the North. A Northerner who can play the game as well as any Southern Lady. The North is in general fierce in battle but terrible on the political front. They keep on taking people at face value, have preset notions that traditions will be honored, and that their enemies will fight fair.
12/5/12 1:13 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Zenoplata
160 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 6/14/10
Posts: 9822

I think there is a theme of Old Guard vs. New Guard in a sense, but I don't think it's necessarily as black and white as that. Danaerys is bringing back the old guard... she is trying to reinstate the old lineage of monarchy and has brought back dragons and thus magic to the land, where it's been deprived for thousands of years.

Jon Snow, Stannis, or whoever is suppose to be the 2nd coming of an ancient hero, characters are often defined by their bloodline, the sigils on their shield and the words of their family.

I agree with you it's a new generation overtaking the previous one, but I think the central theme is that of revolution. Not in the sense of rebellion but in the sense of a cyclical existence. Day and night, winter and summer, the dark and light.

 

12/5/12 1:19 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Zenoplata
160 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 6/14/10
Posts: 9823

And I think one of the main attributes of the "winners" is that they are outsiders or have risen above their birth.

Tyrion is a dwarf, Varys a Eunuch, Littlefinger was lowly born, Ramsay and Jon Snow bastards, Danaerys and exile, the little sister of the "beggar king." It ties in well to the redemption stories a number of characters such as Jaime have.

I predict Hyle has a decent story of redemption if he is allowed to live.

12/5/12 1:21 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
MickColins
116 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/14/08
Posts: 10256

I think Sansa is one of the character Martin has continued developing really well.  Shes gone from snotty,spoiled brat, to victim of horrible abuse, to pawn of littlefinger and the last book made it seem like she was starting to realize she had some power in the situation.

12/5/12 1:31 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Zenoplata
160 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 6/14/10
Posts: 9824

I think Sansa is going to manipulate the lords in the Vale into taking down Littlefinger. Bronze Yohn and Lyn Corbray seem like they're going to be important.

12/5/12 2:04 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
mofugra
16 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/10/08
Posts: 460
Anyone know what the horn that Sam has is? The one they found with all the dragonglass. Is that the horn that can bring down the wall?
12/5/12 2:20 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
homegrowncone
219 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 3/1/09
Posts: 1717
mofugra - Anyone know what the horn that Sam has is? The one they found with all the dragonglass. Is that the horn that can bring down the wall?

Ya most people seem to think it's the horn of winter, but it's broken.  Should be a lot of interesting things happening in Oldtown in TWOW w/ the glass candles and Pate and The Sphynx and whatnot,.

12/5/12 2:49 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
BaldTony
207 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/12/02
Posts: 19719
Zenoplata - 

The only part in the book that made me legit laugh out loud was when they described Rickon attacking people in the crypts.


Don't know why, but the bit that made me laugh the most was when Hot Pie charged into battle in book 2 shouting "HOT PIE!!!!!".
12/5/12 2:54 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
MauricoRua
10 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 3/9/10
Posts: 62
In Phone Post
12/5/12 3:08 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Zenoplata
160 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 6/14/10
Posts: 9840

Pate the Pig Boy!

I wonder if Ja'qen is going to kill Sarella.

12/5/12 10:39 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
DW
150 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 8023

Stannis calling Wyman Manderly "Lord Too-Fat-To-Sit-A-Horse" made me lol


Reply Post

You must log in to post a reply. Click here to login.