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4/22/13 3:50 PM
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ItBurnsWheniOG
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War Potato - So I haven't read thread but is it assumed Melisandre stabbed Jon? Phone Post 3.0
We assume Melisandra brings him back Phone Post 3.0
4/22/13 4:06 PM
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anthonyMI
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In the show they make a point in saying that Jojan Reed was able to see Robert's Rebellion himself even though Howland didn't talk about it. I assume that will be how the show addresses the Tower of Joy. Phone Post
4/22/13 4:26 PM
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Zenoplata
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If Bran can see the ghost of Ned or Ned back in time or whatever I guess he could just ask him.

4/22/13 5:16 PM
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MMAdotCOM
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Jon warged into ghost. Not sure how he will be brought back. Phone Post
4/22/13 5:29 PM
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Zenoplata
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Melisandre will bring him back like Thoros or Beric did. She is a much stronger priest than Thoros was too.

4/22/13 5:31 PM
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Arodjohns
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Zenoplata - 

Melisandre will bring him back like Thoros or Beric did. She is a much stronger priest than Thoros was too.


This occurred to me too. Hopefully that's what happens.

4/22/13 6:47 PM
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how does he go from being in the wolf to back in his body? i haven't seen it done like that. if he was brought back to life would he be both in the wolf and in his body?
4/22/13 6:49 PM
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Zenoplata
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I'm not sure. Maybe they'll have to sacrifice the wolf or something. But Ghost is basically an extension of Jon.

4/22/13 6:56 PM
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CyborgRoyce
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MMAdotCOM - how does he go from being in the wolf to back in his body? i haven't seen it done like that. if he was brought back to life would he be both in the wolf and in his body?

Varamyr Sixskins does it to Thistle in the prologue on ADoD I think
4/22/13 6:58 PM
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kevsh
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My guess as to the final scene in the series (if it ever ends...)

Bran is sitting on the Iron Throne, Daenrys rules beside him (but not as his Queen, she takes King's Landing so he can rule it), Ghost lays at their feet and her last remaining dragon soars over the castle.

Early on I thought Gendry would be the eventual king but he's been downplayed so much I doubt it. Arya will became an elite assassin and help take back the throne before seeking other adventures in other lands, royal life isn't meant for her.
4/22/13 7:30 PM
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MMAdotCOM
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CyborgRoyce - 
MMAdotCOM - how does he go from being in the wolf to back in his body? i haven't seen it done like that. if he was brought back to life would he be both in the wolf and in his body?

Varamyr Sixskins does it to Thistle in the prologue on ADoD I think

not exactly. sixskins gets stuck in oneeye, not his body. thistle gets resurrected as a wight
4/22/13 7:50 PM
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you just noticed that? catelyn saw the meaning right away. robert got ned killed (antler in throat = decapitated)
4/22/13 8:35 PM
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MickColins
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" robert got ned killed"

 

No, he didn't. Littlefinger did. Littlefinger was the one that started the Jamie+Cersei thing rolling. Littlefinger had crazy Lysa kill Jon Arryn.  That made Ned pretty much a shoe in for next Hand. Littlefinger had her send the letter to Cat. Littlefinger is the bad guy in the whole series. He's Barzini in the Godfather.

4/22/13 8:41 PM
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robert got ned killed when he chose him for his Hand but yeah LF caused robert to need a new Hand.
4/23/13 5:38 AM
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Awesomo4000
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shootfighterbull - 
War Potato - So I haven't read thread but is it assumed Melisandre stabbed Jon? Phone Post 3.0
No. It was limey Nights Watch bastards. This is the same lot that killed Lord Commander Mormont, so it isn't too shocking. Phone Post 3.0

This is incorrect, the former members of the watch that killed Mormont took over Craster's Keep and stayed there. The men who stabbed John were not the same. Bowen Marsh wasn't even part of the ranging, as he was the castellan of Castle Black while Mormont and the others were gone.
4/23/13 5:58 AM
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Awesomo4000
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Zenoplata - 

I'm not sure. Maybe they'll have to sacrifice the wolf or something. But Ghost is basically an extension of Jon.


Or maybe he never wargs into Ghost when he dies? Melissandre is already there, I think it's much more likely she brings him back/heals him without him warging into Ghost.

There was no suggestion or indication that Robb "warged" into Grey Wind when he died. The wolves can sense danger to their Stark, and will protect/avenge them at all costs. If the theory is that Jon will automatically warg into Ghost when he dies, then Robb would've warged into Grey Wind. This is unlikely since Robb's death was during a Catelyn pov chapter, if he warged into Grey Wind, it would've made sense that Robb's final chapter would've been as Grey Wind.

Sure, that's not really dispositive of him NOT warging, but if he had warged into Grey Wind, wouldn't it make more sense that he would try to run the fuck away when he got released by Raynald Westerling instead of getting himself killed? Or wouldn't he at least try to go after the Freys or Bolton himself, or ANY humans at all instead of going berserk and killing some Frey dogs and maiming a single dude?
4/23/13 7:24 AM
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Silhouette
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I think meslisandra will be bringing back Jon

the wound "smoked" that is either for azor or him being a dragon, could be both...he aint dying, if he did , it would just be a big fuck you from GRRM

he had the dream with the burning sword

melisandra sees him in the fires

his "sacrifice" of ygritte
4/23/13 8:10 AM
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Awesomo4000 - 
Zenoplata - 

I'm not sure. Maybe they'll have to sacrifice the wolf or something. But Ghost is basically an extension of Jon.


Or maybe he never wargs into Ghost when he dies? Melissandre is already there, I think it's much more likely she brings him back/heals him without him warging into Ghost.

There was no suggestion or indication that Robb "warged" into Grey Wind when he died. The wolves can sense danger to their Stark, and will protect/avenge them at all costs. If the theory is that Jon will automatically warg into Ghost when he dies, then Robb would've warged into Grey Wind. This is unlikely since Robb's death was during a Catelyn pov chapter, if he warged into Grey Wind, it would've made sense that Robb's final chapter would've been as Grey Wind.

Sure, that's not really dispositive of him NOT warging, but if he had warged into Grey Wind, wouldn't it make more sense that he would try to run the fuck away when he got released by Raynald Westerling instead of getting himself killed? Or wouldn't he at least try to go after the Freys or Bolton himself, or ANY humans at all instead of going berserk and killing some Frey dogs and maiming a single dude?

Lady Mel told him to keep his wolf close because she saw his death in the flames
4/23/13 11:54 AM
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Awesomo4000
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MMAdotCOM - 
Awesomo4000 - 
Zenoplata - 

I'm not sure. Maybe they'll have to sacrifice the wolf or something. But Ghost is basically an extension of Jon.


Or maybe he never wargs into Ghost when he dies? Melissandre is already there, I think it's much more likely she brings him back/heals him without him warging into Ghost.

There was no suggestion or indication that Robb "warged" into Grey Wind when he died. The wolves can sense danger to their Stark, and will protect/avenge them at all costs. If the theory is that Jon will automatically warg into Ghost when he dies, then Robb would've warged into Grey Wind. This is unlikely since Robb's death was during a Catelyn pov chapter, if he warged into Grey Wind, it would've made sense that Robb's final chapter would've been as Grey Wind.

Sure, that's not really dispositive of him NOT warging, but if he had warged into Grey Wind, wouldn't it make more sense that he would try to run the fuck away when he got released by Raynald Westerling instead of getting himself killed? Or wouldn't he at least try to go after the Freys or Bolton himself, or ANY humans at all instead of going berserk and killing some Frey dogs and maiming a single dude?

Lady Mel told him to keep his wolf close because she saw his death in the flames

... and Catelyn said the same thing to Robb, so what? Melissandre saw danger to Jon's person, makes sense to advise him to keep his wolf guardian around, no? There's been no indication that Melissandre even knows Jon is a warg, either, but according to this theory, she had to 1) know that Jon is a warg, 2) unlike other wargs, Jon can only warg into Ghost, 3) Predict that not only will Jon die, but his soul would warg into Ghost as some sort of vessel, and 4) have some way to extract his soul from Ghost. That whole chain of logic is just unsupported by the material.

And since when has proximity been a factor to warging anyway? Arya still wargs into Nymeria from time to time in Braavos. Varamyr wasn't super close to One-eye and still warged into him when he died.
4/23/13 1:48 PM
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Awesomo4000
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TheWhite - 

Robb didn't warg into Grey Wolf.  He foolishly allowed his wolf to be separated from him.  Ghost, on the other hand, was close by and will have saved Jon.

Melisandre's warning to keep Ghost close carries FAR more weight than Cat's, and even still, Cat saw the truth of it.  Melisandre does see things in the flames.  Magic is returning. 

She may not even know how Ghost could save Jon, but just that Jon had to keep him close so that Ghost could.  So none of "she had to 1) know that Jon is a warg, 2) unlike other wargs, Jon can only warg into Ghost, 3) Predict that not only will Jon die, but his soul would warg into Ghost as some sort of vessel, and 4) have some way to extract his soul from Ghost. That whole chain of logic is just unsupported by the material" is necessary.  She simply knew that Ghost, by being close, would save Jon somehow.

 


I agree Robb didn't warg into Grey Wind, that's my point. If Jon would, then Robb would have. And again, Arya has dreams of Nymeria from an ocean away, distance means shit for the Starks and their wolves.

If you call Robb foolish for keeping GW separated from him, then Jon is equally foolish for keeping Ghost penned up to keep him away from Borroq's boar. Ghost is not appreciably closer (if at all) to Jon than GW was to Robb.

Robb kept Grey Wind in the kennels of the Crossing, THE SAME CASTLE Robb was killed in. Ghost is kept in Jon's room while Jon is stabbed walking around outside. I wouldn't say Grey Wind was any more separated from Robb than Ghost is from Jon, and if so, drawing some distinction between those two would be totally arbitrary.

What makes you think Melissandre saw that Ghost would save Jon? She never says that to Jon about her visions, and that vision is never described in the books, even though the book provides other examples of both. Even if she did, since he didn't keep Ghost close (since Ghost was locked up in his room), then her prediction failed.

Based on what she explicitly said to Jon, Melissandre saw Jon had enemies that he thought were his friends. Doesn't it make moresense to advise him to keep Ghost near so Ghost could help protect Jon? She never saw him warging, and doesn't know (at least, there is no indication/suggestion that she knows) he's a warg. All she knows is that he's a big ass wolf and that he protects Jon.
4/23/13 2:27 PM
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Awesomo4000
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TheWhite - 

Did Grey Wolf die before Robb?  I can't remember.  It's been a while, but either way, even if Robb HAD warged into GW, GW was still killed, so Robb would be dead anyways. 

As for why I think Melisandre saw that Ghost would save Jon, I'd say it's VERY strongly implied by "It is not the foes who curse you to your face that you must fear, but those who smile when you are looking and sharpen their knives when you turn your back. You would do well to keep your wolf close beside you. Ice, I see, and daggers in the dark. Blood frozen red and hard, and naked steel."

She's predicting the stabbing, and advising him to keep the wolf close. 


No, Robb was killed first. GW was afterwards released by his squire. If Robb HAD warged into GW, then he likely would've escaped or picked his victims better right? He would've gone after some Freys instead of like, some dogs, and the throat of some dudes instead of ripping off one arm.

Melissandre can see attempts at her own life and then thwart them. See: Cressen's attempted poisoning, Prologue a Clash of Kings.

So already not all the things she sees actually happen. If she can do that, she can warn Jon and try to help him keep from getting killed. I interpreted the passage you quoted as her trying to warn Jon to keep Ghost around to prevent him from being killed in the first place, not to have a convenient vessel with which to resurrect him.

4/23/13 10:25 PM
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NeoSpartan
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Varys actually works for the Iron Bank of Bravoos, this is all about settling debts

Aegon really is the son of Rhaegar

Arya kills Daenarys because she lost her identity and is a servant of the faceless god

The faceless god is actually the god of the others

Aegon wants to kill her but Tyrion somehow saves her

Upon rediscovering herself Arya is able to warg into the dragons which is something no one else can do (she seems to be the strongest Warg even more so than Bran)

Aegon falls in love with her (like Rhaegar and Lyanna)

they come to the rescue of john snow (azor ahai) who is aided by bran who is now like cold hands




I don't know I'm making shit up
4/23/13 10:34 PM
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NeoSpartan
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Ice & Fire = Aegon + Arya

“To Winterfell we pledge the faith of Greywater. Hearth and heart and harvest we yield up to you, my lord. Our swords and spears and arrows are yours to command. Grant mercy to our weak, help to our helpless, and justice to all, and we shall never fail you. I swear it by earth and water. I swear it by bronze and iron.

We swear it by ice and fire."

- Oath of House Reed to House Stark
4/24/13 5:36 PM
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Billco
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subbed for later

4/24/13 6:05 PM
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NeoSpartan
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TheWhite - 
NeoSpartan - Ice & Fire = Aegon + Arya

“To Winterfell we pledge the faith of Greywater. Hearth and heart and harvest we yield up to you, my lord. Our swords and spears and arrows are yours to command. Grant mercy to our weak, help to our helpless, and justice to all, and we shall never fail you. I swear it by earth and water. I swear it by bronze and iron.

We swear it by ice and fire."

- Oath of House Reed to House Stark

What does this have to do with Aegon?  Nothing whatsoever


I fully admit that. I am basing my theories off of nothing other than flow of consciousness rambling.

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