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11/14/12 4:33 PM
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AlphaOnBetaBlockers
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I agree that he is Azor Ahai. Warging into Ghost for a time doesn't change that, and may help him develop the ability to do so whenever he wishes. Phone Post
11/14/12 4:37 PM
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Zenoplata
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Lady Stoneheart is a dumb bitch. Just because Jon Snow is ressurected doesn't mean he'll be like her. Berric was pretty well off mentally at first, it was just that he kept dying over and over again.

11/14/12 4:38 PM
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Awesomo4000
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AlphaOnBetaBlockers -  I agree that he is Azor Ahai. Warging into Ghost for a time doesn't change that, and may help him develop the ability to do so whenever he wishes. Phone Post

He is not going to Warg into Ghost. In Varamyr's introductory chapter he clearly states it's one way transfer on death. So unless you also think he's going to be riding one of Daenerys's dragon as a white dire wolf, it's not going to happen.
11/14/12 4:41 PM
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Mencken
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Awesomo4000 - 
AlphaOnBetaBlockers -  I agree that he is Azor Ahai. Warging into Ghost for a time doesn't change that, and may help him develop the ability to do so whenever he wishes. Phone Post

He is not going to Warg into Ghost. In Varamyr's introductory chapter he clearly states it's one way transfer on death. So unless you also think he's going to be riding one of Daenerys's dragon as a white dire wolf, it's not going to happen.

That is where the host body dies and doesn't come back.  What will happen with Jon's body?  Will he be reborn? 

11/14/12 4:44 PM
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dizz
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AlphaOnBetaBlockers -  I agree that he is Azor Ahai. Warging into Ghost for a time doesn't change that, and may help him develop the ability to do so whenever he wishes. Phone Post

That could be. I still tend to think the Sixskins prologue had more to do with a) Bran and b) a red herring with Jon than a warg. But I wouldn't be shocked to see Jon warg, especially if Martin is doing it to lengthen the Azor Ahai story arc (i.e. waiting till Book 7 to bring him back as AA).

11/14/12 4:44 PM
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Awesomo4000
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Zenoplata - 

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of the Faceless Men/Euron theories. I think the Faceless Men are involved in something else with the dragons, although if Euron DID pay them with a dragons' egg I could see them bringing it back to Varys/Illyrio if they're involved together. Although if they were involved in a hypothetical Blackfyre rebellion then I don't see why they'd need Arya Stark.


I think it's clear a faceless man killed Balon. One of the visions that the dwarf crone mentions in ASoS when she talks to Lem and Tom O'Sevens is a man without a face on a bridge with a king.

Just because the iron bank hires faceless men doesn't mean they're the exclusive client. Robert talks about hiring one to kill Daenerys in AGoT, with the only obstacle being cost. Euron certainly obtained a shitton of treasure from raiding around the world. It's how he bought off the captains at the Kingsmoot.
11/14/12 4:46 PM
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Awesomo4000
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Mencken - 
Awesomo4000 - 
AlphaOnBetaBlockers -  I agree that he is Azor Ahai. Warging into Ghost for a time doesn't change that, and may help him develop the ability to do so whenever he wishes. Phone Post

He is not going to Warg into Ghost. In Varamyr's introductory chapter he clearly states it's one way transfer on death. So unless you also think he's going to be riding one of Daenerys's dragon as a white dire wolf, it's not going to happen.

That is where the host body dies and doesn't come back.  What will happen with Jon's body?  Will he be reborn? 


Melissandre will resurrect him with a kiss, like Thoros with Beric and Catelynn.
11/14/12 4:46 PM
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Mencken
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Yep, Faceless Men are definitely available for hire by anyone with the cash

11/14/12 4:47 PM
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Mencken
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Awesomo4000 - 
Mencken - 
Awesomo4000 - 
AlphaOnBetaBlockers -  I agree that he is Azor Ahai. Warging into Ghost for a time doesn't change that, and may help him develop the ability to do so whenever he wishes. Phone Post

He is not going to Warg into Ghost. In Varamyr's introductory chapter he clearly states it's one way transfer on death. So unless you also think he's going to be riding one of Daenerys's dragon as a white dire wolf, it's not going to happen.

That is where the host body dies and doesn't come back.  What will happen with Jon's body?  Will he be reborn? 


Melissandre will resurrect him with a kiss, like Thoros with Beric and Catelynn.

Exactly.  I was speaking to your point about dying and warging being a one way trip.  It's a one way trip because the host body isn't normally brought back to life.  I think that makes the Jon/Ghost situation different, and so he definitely could have warged into Ghost

11/14/12 4:48 PM
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Mencken
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By "host body" I mean the original body (i.e. the dying body).  That was a silly way to phrase it by me

11/14/12 5:02 PM
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AlphaOnBetaBlockers
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One of the reasons I believe he warged into Ghost for now is this Melisandre quote:

"It is not the foes who curse you to your face that you must fear, but those who smile when you are looking and sharpen their knives when you turn your back. You would do well to keep your wolf close beside you. Ice, I see, and daggers in the dark. Blood frozen red and hard, and naked steel." Phone Post
11/14/12 5:08 PM
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AlphaOnBetaBlockers
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Another, more specific quote:

"The flames crackled softly, and in their crackling she heard the whispered name Jon Snow. His long face floated before her, limned in tongues of red and orange, appearing and disappearing again, a shadow half- seen behind a fluttering curtain. Now he was a man, now a wolf, now a man again. But the skulls were here as well, the skulls were all around him." Phone Post
11/14/12 5:17 PM
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Awesomo4000
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AlphaOnBetaBlockers -  One of the reasons I believe he warged into Ghost for now is this Melisandre quote:

"It is not the foes who curse you to your face that you must fear, but those who smile when you are looking and sharpen their knives when you turn your back. You would do well to keep your wolf close beside you. Ice, I see, and daggers in the dark. Blood frozen red and hard, and naked steel." Phone Post

I'm not sure what that is supposed to show except that Ghost seems to be able to detect danger to Jon (like all the other direwolves to their respective Stark). He also has protected Jon on numerous occasions (vs. Halfhand). Keeping him close is a way to have an ally whose loyalty cannot be questioned at all times.

The second quote just shows that Jon wargs into Ghost subconsciously (e.g., when he's dreaming), which is nothing new. Are you saying he's actually going to be Ghost for a prolonged period of time? What happens to Ghost's psyche during this time? Varamyr's chapter makes it clear that the lost psyche dissipates when it has no host body.

What happens to Ghost's psyche when the warg has no host body that is alive to return to?



11/14/12 5:29 PM
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Joe Sacto
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In Phone Post
11/14/12 5:31 PM
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microMx
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11/14/12 7:24 PM
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kuruptz
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Papa BUrgandy - Lyana Stark is alive, being held at Greywater Watch, being protected by Howland Reed.
Say it isn't so!!!!! Phone Post
11/14/12 7:32 PM
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Mencken
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Awesomo4000 - 
AlphaOnBetaBlockers -  One of the reasons I believe he warged into Ghost for now is this Melisandre quote:

"It is not the foes who curse you to your face that you must fear, but those who smile when you are looking and sharpen their knives when you turn your back. You would do well to keep your wolf close beside you. Ice, I see, and daggers in the dark. Blood frozen red and hard, and naked steel." Phone Post

I'm not sure what that is supposed to show except that Ghost seems to be able to detect danger to Jon (like all the other direwolves to their respective Stark). He also has protected Jon on numerous occasions (vs. Halfhand). Keeping him close is a way to have an ally whose loyalty cannot be questioned at all times.

The second quote just shows that Jon wargs into Ghost subconsciously (e.g., when he's dreaming), which is nothing new. Are you saying he's actually going to be Ghost for a prolonged period of time? What happens to Ghost's psyche during this time? Varamyr's chapter makes it clear that the lost psyche dissipates when it has no host body.

What happens to Ghost's psyche when the warg has no host body that is alive to return to?




What?  Are you suggesting that when Jon wargs into Ghost that Ghost goes into Jon?  They don't switch.  Ghost's psyche just withdraws into the periphery....basically like Jon pushes Ghost into the passenger seat and takes over driving.

11/14/12 7:44 PM
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CyborgRoyce
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I think Jon Snow will get excommunicated from the Night's Watch for his faults as commander, the wildlings will follow him and he'll have an army of his own. 

 

Also, Brienne is the daughter of Duncan the Tall

11/14/12 7:56 PM
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homegrowncone
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Bran ate Jojen paste

Patchface is the prince of Skagos and the great other

Manderly now has a taste for Frey Pie

 

Basically Winds is going get very, very cannibalismy.

 

11/14/12 8:04 PM
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TX_432
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Jojen paste? Did I miss something? Phone Post
11/14/12 8:06 PM
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canuck34
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CyborgRoyce - 

I think Jon Snow will get excommunicated from the Night's Watch for his faults as commander, the wildlings will follow him and he'll have an army of his own. 

 

Also, Brienne is the daughter of Duncan the Tall


Wouldn't that make Brienne over 40 years old? I thought she was in her 20s.
11/14/12 8:12 PM
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Awesomo4000
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Mencken - 
Awesomo4000 - 
AlphaOnBetaBlockers -  One of the reasons I believe he warged into Ghost for now is this Melisandre quote:

"It is not the foes who curse you to your face that you must fear, but those who smile when you are looking and sharpen their knives when you turn your back. You would do well to keep your wolf close beside you. Ice, I see, and daggers in the dark. Blood frozen red and hard, and naked steel." Phone Post

I'm not sure what that is supposed to show except that Ghost seems to be able to detect danger to Jon (like all the other direwolves to their respective Stark). He also has protected Jon on numerous occasions (vs. Halfhand). Keeping him close is a way to have an ally whose loyalty cannot be questioned at all times.

The second quote just shows that Jon wargs into Ghost subconsciously (e.g., when he's dreaming), which is nothing new. Are you saying he's actually going to be Ghost for a prolonged period of time? What happens to Ghost's psyche during this time? Varamyr's chapter makes it clear that the lost psyche dissipates when it has no host body.

What happens to Ghost's psyche when the warg has no host body that is alive to return to?




What?  Are you suggesting that when Jon wargs into Ghost that Ghost goes into Jon?  They don't switch.  Ghost's psyche just withdraws into the periphery....basically like Jon pushes Ghost into the passenger seat and takes over driving.


No, I'm not saying they switch. I'm saying when a warg changes the "host" body, the psyche of the original host is lost. Even if it's another warg. Varamyr took over Haggon's wolf when Haggon died and "warged" into the wolf. When that happened, Haggon died his second and final death.

Ghost's psyche cannot "withdraw" if Ghost's body becomes the actual host body of the warg. Jon is able to push Ghost into the passenger seat only so long as he has a separate, living, physical host. Also, skin changing seems to be lost when the original warg's body dies. It's why Varamyr knows that once he dies, he won't be able to warg anymore.

I don't want to say definitively that there's no way, but there's nothing to suggest that it can happen as you theorize.

11/14/12 8:17 PM
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CyborgRoyce
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canuck34 - 
CyborgRoyce - 

I think Jon Snow will get excommunicated from the Night's Watch for his faults as commander, the wildlings will follow him and he'll have an army of his own. 

 

Also, Brienne is the daughter of Duncan the Tall


Wouldn't that make Brienne over 40 years old? I thought she was in her 20s.

Sorry, didn't mean daughter, but descendant. Possibly granddaughter. This is hinted in AFfC

11/14/12 8:25 PM
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homegrowncone
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Edited: 11/14/12 8:31 PM
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TX_432 -  Jojen paste? Did I miss something? Phone Post

 

Weirwoods are linked to human blood,  Bran ate "weirwood paste", Jojen has been getting weaker in the cave (possibly from bloodletting?).  Bran ate Jojen paste.

 

 

I dunno man, it's a theory.

 

Edit: Didn't mean for that to sound rude, I'm just spittballing here, for some reason I just really got the vibe from Dance that Cannibalism is going to be a factor in the next book.

11/14/12 8:45 PM
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TX_432
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homegrowncone -
TX_432 -  Jojen paste? Did I miss something? Phone Post

 

Weirwoods are linked to human blood,  Bran ate "weirwood paste", Jojen has been getting weaker in the cave (possibly from bloodletting?).  Bran ate Jojen paste.

 

 

I dunno man, it's a theory.

 

Edit: Didn't mean for that to sound rude, I'm just spittballing here, for some reason I just really got the vibe from Dance that Cannibalism is going to be a factor in the next book.

Could be with Stannis army stranded out there you could be onto something Phone Post

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