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UnderGround Forums >> GSP needs to fight for the MW title


11/18/12 11:30 AM
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Kneeblock
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If Georges is going to take a fight against Anderson, it's basically all risk and no reward at a catchweight. If he wins, sure he can say he beat the GOAT, but he gets no belt and people after the fact can second guess Anderson's weight cut. If he loses, he heads back to WW with a little more damage and gets little besides a big payday, but GSP is clearly about winning much more than money.

Fighting at a catchweight is a waste. I think the reason GSP was equivocating a bit last night was because he was so happy to get his belt back and has to think long and hard about giving it up to move to MW permanently.

If he left the WW division now, there are a number of challengers who could cobble together an impressive tournament to fill the void. If Anderson left MW, even though there are challengers, most people agree that they wouldn't fill Anderson's shoes in any satisfying way. Weidman, Bisping, Boetsch, Belcher; maybe Sonnen would return. Rockhold is out there. These are all talented guys and may even be able to give Anderson a little trouble, but no one is realistically thinking they could fill Anderson's shoes right now. 

At WW, a tournament of Hendricks, Diaz, Condit, Rory/Penn winner and Marquardt would be very compelling and the eventual winner would definitely have the credentials to at least be considered a viable replacement now that GSP has moved up.

GSP needs to either stay at WW and face all these challengers (except Rory who he won't fight) or go to MW for good. Catchweight superfight is a losing proposition for his career and for the sport other unless they both immediately retired afterward.

 

11/18/12 11:33 AM
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Frobenius
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Agree 100%. I think GSP could pull it off.
11/18/12 11:33 AM
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VitorSuckedBonesToes
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Agree.
Johnny Hendricks imo
And Andy can go take on Jones, the fight the world really wants to see, or defend his own title against someone not Chael Sonnen.
Belcher or winner of Bisping Belfort. Phone Post
11/18/12 11:39 AM
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WidespreadPanic
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WW is up to 170.

MW is up to 185.

GSP is about 5'10

AS is about 6'2

GSP walks around at, what, 180, cuts to 170? AS can walk around at 215, can easily get to 225.

In the ring at 185, GSP is going to be a bit bloated 180. AS is going to be at least 200. So you're suggesting a class title holder who can get a great paycheck and not risk his health go up against a giant (comparatively)?

That's stupid. If they had a weigh-in the night of the fight, and met at 180, then it would probably be a decent fight. But as you say that only gets a payday and nobody gets a belt.

GSP should stay and defend at 170.

 

11/18/12 11:42 AM
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JetSetter
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No reward??? Have you lost your mind??

His reward is making more money in 1 fight than any other UFC fighter has ever made. Lol. You guys crack me up. You spend years complaining about fighter pay and now this guy can make more in 1 fight than most UFC fighter have made in their whole career and you say there is no upside for this fight!! Lol. Unreal Phone Post
11/18/12 11:48 AM
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Kneeblock
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JetSetter -  No reward??? Have you lost your mind??

His reward is making more money in 1 fight than any other UFC fighter has ever made. Lol. You guys crack me up. You spend years complaining about fighter pay and now this guy can make more in 1 fight than most UFC fighter have made in their whole career and you say there is no upside for this fight!! Lol. Unreal Phone Post

As I said, GSP is not the type of fighter who does what he does for money alone.

11/18/12 11:49 AM
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Kneeblock
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WidespreadPanic - 

WW is up to 170.

MW is up to 185.

GSP is about 5'10

AS is about 6'2

GSP walks around at, what, 180, cuts to 170? AS can walk around at 215, can easily get to 225.

In the ring at 185, GSP is going to be a bit bloated 180. AS is going to be at least 200. So you're suggesting a class title holder who can get a great paycheck and not risk his health go up against a giant (comparatively)?

That's stupid. If they had a weigh-in the night of the fight, and met at 180, then it would probably be a decent fight. But as you say that only gets a payday and nobody gets a belt.

GSP should stay and defend at 170.

 


Agreed. As I said at the end, he either stays at 170 or fights Anderson at 185. 

Losing at 177 or 180 would be too much for GSP to handle. Sure he'd be rich, but he'd never get over it, particularly since $$$ was the only thing on the line.

Also, there are plenty of MW who are 5'10 or less.

11/18/12 11:51 AM
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JetSetter
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You said "ALL risk and no reward!!"

Stupidest thing I've heard in a while. I guess you don't view millions of dollars as "reward" Phone Post
11/18/12 12:43 PM
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MrColdCock
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GSP is too small for a permanent move.

Jones vs Anderson
GSP vs Hendricks

8 man WW contender tournament:
Fitch vs Maia
Rory vs BJ
Condit vs E Silva
Diaz vs Marquardt

Kampmann vs Koscheck alternate bout.

Jizz Phone Post
11/20/12 3:16 AM
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Kneeblock
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JetSetter -  You said "ALL risk and no reward!!"

Stupidest thing I've heard in a while. I guess you don't view millions of dollars as "reward" Phone Post

You really just don't get it do you?

11/20/12 3:36 AM
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Magic_Wanderlei
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I say if GSP and Anderson fight, then they should both have to either drop down to 155 or balloon up to over 240. That way, it's fair. At 155, they'll both be weak and it'll be all about technique and heart. Ar 240, they'll both be slow as shit and gas after the first round, so the fight will be all about timing and ... heart.
11/20/12 4:19 AM
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OnlyTheStrongSurvive
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WW is up to 170.

MW is up to 185.

GSP is about 5'10

AS is about 6'2

GSP walks around at, what, 180, cuts to 170? AS can walk around at 215, can easily get to 225.

In the ring at 185, GSP is going to be a bit bloated 180. AS is going to be at least 200. So you're suggesting a class title holder who can get a great paycheck and not risk his health go up against a giant (comparatively)?

That's stupid. If they had a weigh-in the night of the fight, and met at 180, then it would probably be a decent fight. But as you say that only gets a payday and nobody gets a belt.

GSP should stay and defend at 170.

 

GSP weighs last like 192-195 in the cage at ww. He would be fine. Silva is normally under 200.

Walk around weight is pretty useless, Forrest and Rampage walks around at like 250+ but obviously weigh nowhere near that when in shape and fighting. Phone Post
11/20/12 4:28 AM
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OnlyTheStrongSurvive
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I'm not fully following the catchweight being all risk no reward.

He still remains champ at 170, win or lose. He's fighting the guy a weight class up, if he loses a lot of people will say he is smaller and that's why he lost. They can play the back and better than ever angle if he does lose.

He also gets seriously paid like never before, becomes an even bigger star, especially if he wins, and gets a chance to beat the goat a weight division up in a fight he isn't expected to win.

I see the reward being well worth the risk of losing at catchweight. If he loses to Silva at 185, then what does he do? Fight Bisping and Vitor and wait for Silva to retire? Just imo Phone Post
11/20/12 11:16 AM
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Kneeblock
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OnlyTheStrongSurvive -  I'm not fully following the catchweight being all risk no reward.

He still remains champ at 170, win or lose. He's fighting the guy a weight class up, if he loses a lot of people will say he is smaller and that's why he lost. They can play the back and better than ever angle if he does lose.

He also gets seriously paid like never before, becomes an even bigger star, especially if he wins, and gets a chance to beat the goat a weight division up in a fight he isn't expected to win.

I see the reward being well worth the risk of losing at catchweight. If he loses to Silva at 185, then what does he do? Fight Bisping and Vitor and wait for Silva to retire? Just imo Phone Post

This is the thing about GSP. Winning really matters to him. I mean, it REALLY matters to him. Of course it matters to everyone, particularly the champions, but with GSP, he's always been concerned with who he is as a fighter and as a champion. It comes across clearly in his interviews. And also he's been to the top and been humbled a couple times which really shaped who he is as a person and fighter. 

GSP isn't a guy who talks much about money. In fact, I can't recall a single interview where he talked about contract negotiations or how much he was getting paid or even financial opportunities outside of fighting. The guy is all about winning his fights and being a champion. 

So Dana could throw 10 million dollars at him and if he lost, GSP would be the most morose, miserable millionnaire on the planet. He doesn't care about the angles or being a bigger star. He wants to win.

I think it's also very clear in his fighting style. He takes very limited risks these days because he hates losing so much. I mean, the guy has been doing the same guard pass his whole career, with only one or two variations sometimes when he's dominating. This is not a guy who's willing to risk a loss unless he's going to become a champion. And he knows Anderson is a very real risk. 

In Firas Zihabi's recent interview he said GSP would move up and stay up for good if he did it so that already tells you where his head is at. This is a guy who thinks about his legacy constantly and who would only be sold on taking this fight if he knew it was the beginning of a new chapter to his career that would take him eventually to his retirement. 

Also, just for the sake of the sport, I think it's better for champions to defend their belt. If Anderson is fighting a lighter guy, his belt should be on the line. Anderson is the best right now and for GSP it's about beating the man to become the best, not just winning a fight and getting paid.

11/20/12 11:18 AM
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Kneeblock
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MrColdCock -  GSP is too small for a permanent move.

Jones vs Anderson
GSP vs Hendricks

8 man WW contender tournament:
Fitch vs Maia
Rory vs BJ
Condit vs E Silva
Diaz vs Marquardt

Kampmann vs Koscheck alternate bout.

Jizz Phone Post

WW is very deep right now. I would indeed jizz if those things happened and I agree with your way of thinking if GSP stays there.

11/20/12 11:29 AM
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triso
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OnlyTheStrongSurvive - 
WidespreadPanic -

WW is up to 170.

MW is up to 185.

GSP is about 5'10

AS is about 6'2

GSP walks around at, what, 180, cuts to 170? AS can walk around at 215, can easily get to 225.

In the ring at 185, GSP is going to be a bit bloated 180. AS is going to be at least 200. So you're suggesting a class title holder who can get a great paycheck and not risk his health go up against a giant (comparatively)?

That's stupid. If they had a weigh-in the night of the fight, and met at 180, then it would probably be a decent fight. But as you say that only gets a payday and nobody gets a belt.

GSP should stay and defend at 170.

 

GSP weighs last like 192-195 in the cage at ww. He would be fine. Silva is normally under 200.

Walk around weight is pretty useless, Forrest and Rampage walks around at like 250+ but obviously weigh nowhere near that when in shape and fighting. Phone Post

You must be young or very inexperienced if you think walk around weight doesn't matter in a fight at that level.

GSP does walk at a little over 190, but Anderson at under 200 ... LOL at that shit. He's easily 215lbs. And Forrest and Rampage are not 250+, WTH are you talking about?

I agree with you Knee, if they're fighting it should be for the belt. Truthfully though, I'm content to see GSP face this new crop of challengers that emerged since his injury. The division is actually pretty exciting right now. I do realize the appeal of a super fight though. Everyone will tune in for that.
11/20/12 11:31 AM
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kevsh
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I'd prefer GSP face Hendricks and if he wins Diaz next. He beats both of those guys and he pretty much cements his legacy as one of the top 2-3 fighters ever (if on your list he isn't there already).

It's been said a million times but I'll repeat anyway: GSP clearly does not want to face Silva and nobody should take anything away from him for his decision.
11/20/12 11:37 AM
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GeneraI
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Kneeblock -
JetSetter -  You said "ALL risk and no reward!!"

Stupidest thing I've heard in a while. I guess you don't view millions of dollars as "reward" Phone Post

You really just don't get it do you?

No he doesn't. It's hard to explain to someone who can't comprehend or open to objective views. Phone Post
11/20/12 11:39 AM
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IIAces
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WW is up to 170.

MW is up to 185.

GSP is about 5'10

AS is about 6'2

GSP walks around at, what, 180, cuts to 170? AS can walk around at 215, can easily get to 225.

In the ring at 185, GSP is going to be a bit bloated 180. AS is going to be at least 200. So you're suggesting a class title holder who can get a great paycheck and not risk his health go up against a giant (comparatively)?

That's stupid. If they had a weigh-in the night of the fight, and met at 180, then it would probably be a decent fight. But as you say that only gets a payday and nobody gets a belt.

GSP should stay and defend at 170.

 

When in the hell has Anderson been that big? Why does everyone think he walks around at 205 . He came in at 202 against Bonnar with no cut. So what the fuck makes you say 225??? He would be able 205 but noway in hell 185 if he's that big.

Everyone has been bitching about this fight for years. You all wanted this fight before Jones won the belt. Everyone has begged Dana for this for past few years for this. Is GSP not a P4P contender anymore? That is what all y'all are saying right? He was good enough for the fight back then but not now.

My question is, is GSP on the downside of his career at age 32? Or is Anderson peeking at age 37? What's changed in the past year or two between these guys? Phone Post
11/20/12 11:44 AM
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GeneraI
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Kneeblock -
OnlyTheStrongSurvive -  I'm not fully following the catchweight being all risk no reward.

He still remains champ at 170, win or lose. He's fighting the guy a weight class up, if he loses a lot of people will say he is smaller and that's why he lost. They can play the back and better than ever angle if he does lose.

He also gets seriously paid like never before, becomes an even bigger star, especially if he wins, and gets a chance to beat the goat a weight division up in a fight he isn't expected to win.

I see the reward being well worth the risk of losing at catchweight. If he loses to Silva at 185, then what does he do? Fight Bisping and Vitor and wait for Silva to retire? Just imo Phone Post

This is the thing about GSP. Winning really matters to him. I mean, it REALLY matters to him. Of course it matters to everyone, particularly the champions, but with GSP, he's always been concerned with who he is as a fighter and as a champion. It comes across clearly in his interviews. And also he's been to the top and been humbled a couple times which really shaped who he is as a person and fighter. 

GSP isn't a guy who talks much about money. In fact, I can't recall a single interview where he talked about contract negotiations or how much he was getting paid or even financial opportunities outside of fighting. The guy is all about winning his fights and being a champion. 

So Dana could throw 10 million dollars at him and if he lost, GSP would be the most morose, miserable millionnaire on the planet. He doesn't care about the angles or being a bigger star. He wants to win.

I think it's also very clear in his fighting style. He takes very limited risks these days because he hates losing so much. I mean, the guy has been doing the same guard pass his whole career, with only one or two variations sometimes when he's dominating. This is not a guy who's willing to risk a loss unless he's going to become a champion. And he knows Anderson is a very real risk. 

In Firas Zihabi's recent interview he said GSP would move up and stay up for good if he did it so that already tells you where his head is at. This is a guy who thinks about his legacy constantly and who would only be sold on taking this fight if he knew it was the beginning of a new chapter to his career that would take him eventually to his retirement. 

Also, just for the sake of the sport, I think it's better for champions to defend their belt. If Anderson is fighting a lighter guy, his belt should be on the line. Anderson is the best right now and for GSP it's about beating the man to become the best, not just winning a fight and getting paid.

Very good analysis, now I know why you have so many votes up Phone Post
11/20/12 11:44 AM
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IIAces
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Why does everyone think he 205 plus*** Phone Post
11/20/12 11:49 AM
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GeneraI
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IIAces -
WidespreadPanic -

WW is up to 170.

MW is up to 185.

GSP is about 5'10

AS is about 6'2

GSP walks around at, what, 180, cuts to 170? AS can walk around at 215, can easily get to 225.

In the ring at 185, GSP is going to be a bit bloated 180. AS is going to be at least 200. So you're suggesting a class title holder who can get a great paycheck and not risk his health go up against a giant (comparatively)?

That's stupid. If they had a weigh-in the night of the fight, and met at 180, then it would probably be a decent fight. But as you say that only gets a payday and nobody gets a belt.

GSP should stay and defend at 170.

 

When in the hell has Anderson been that big? Why does everyone think he walks around at 205 . He came in at 202 against Bonnar with no cut. So what the fuck makes you say 225??? He would be able 205 but noway in hell 185 if he's that big.

Everyone has been bitching about this fight for years. You all wanted this fight before Jones won the belt. Everyone has begged Dana for this for past few years for this. Is GSP not a P4P contender anymore? That is what all y'all are saying right? He was good enough for the fight back then but not now.

My question is, is GSP on the downside of his career at age 32? Or is Anderson peeking at age 37? What's changed in the past year or two between these guys? Phone Post
You obviously don't follow MMA news. Even Soares said Anderson walks around 225; please do some research when posting. Phone Post
11/20/12 12:04 PM
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OnlyTheStrongSurvive
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triso -
OnlyTheStrongSurvive - 
WidespreadPanic -

WW is up to 170.

MW is up to 185.

GSP is about 5'10

AS is about 6'2

GSP walks around at, what, 180, cuts to 170? AS can walk around at 215, can easily get to 225.

In the ring at 185, GSP is going to be a bit bloated 180. AS is going to be at least 200. So you're suggesting a class title holder who can get a great paycheck and not risk his health go up against a giant (comparatively)?

That's stupid. If they had a weigh-in the night of the fight, and met at 180, then it would probably be a decent fight. But as you say that only gets a payday and nobody gets a belt.

GSP should stay and defend at 170.

 

GSP weighs last like 192-195 in the cage at ww. He would be fine. Silva is normally under 200.

Walk around weight is pretty useless, Forrest and Rampage walks around at like 250+ but obviously weigh nowhere near that when in shape and fighting. Phone Post

You must be young or very inexperienced if you think walk around weight doesn't matter in a fight at that level.

GSP does walk at a little over 190, but Anderson at under 200 ... LOL at that shit. He's easily 215lbs. And Forrest and Rampage are not 250+, WTH are you talking about?

I agree with you Knee, if they're fighting it should be for the belt. Truthfully though, I'm content to see GSP face this new crop of challengers that emerged since his injury. The division is actually pretty exciting right now. I do realize the appeal of a super fight though. Everyone will tune in for that.
Forrest typically walks around at 240. Before Shogun 2, he said he started camp even heavier than normal. Rampage turned down filling in for Rashad against Shogun because he weighed 250 pounds and couldn't lose the weight in time.

http://www.mmaconvert.com/2011/07/06/forrest-griffin-pulls-a-rampage-has-extra-weight-to-cut-for-ufc-134/

http://mmajunkie.com/news/22383/rampage-jackson-cites-poor-timing-weight-for-ufc-128-title-fight-decline.mma

I didn't say Silva walks around under 200, his walk around weight is about 218. In the cage at mw, hw fights at about 197ish. Mma fans need to realize that unless these guys walk around in fight shape, their walk around weight really isn't indicative of how big a fighter they are. A lot of these guys walk around fat and Silva is one of them. Phone Post
11/20/12 12:04 PM
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orcus
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WW is up to 170.

MW is up to 185.

GSP is about 5'10

AS is about 6'2

GSP walks around at, what, 180, cuts to 170? AS can walk around at 215, can easily get to 225.

In the ring at 185, GSP is going to be a bit bloated 180. AS is going to be at least 200. So you're suggesting a class title holder who can get a great paycheck and not risk his health go up against a giant (comparatively)?

That's stupid. If they had a weigh-in the night of the fight, and met at 180, then it would probably be a decent fight. But as you say that only gets a payday and nobody gets a belt.

GSP should stay and defend at 170.

 


You're misinformed. Even for this post-injury fight, GSP was 188lb and they said he was lighter than he has been -- for Koscheck, Hardy, and Shields he was 190+ on fight night according to himself and Firaz. I don't know where you're getting 180 from, much less "a bit bloated 180". You speak very confidently for someone who has never read a single one of the thousands of posts here about their weight, or watched or read any of GSP's or Firaz's interviews where they talk about it. Even back when he fought BJ, he was 187 on fight night iirc.

Meanwhile there is no reason to think Anderson would be "at least 200", when he was only 202 for his lightheavyweight fight against Bonnar, and his nutritionist and trainer both say he was 198 against Sonnen.

11/20/12 12:06 PM
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OnlyTheStrongSurvive
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Kneeblock, I get what your saying, and it's a great opinion. Personally I do think money is a big part of things for GSP, but I think even legacy wise it's a great fight for him. I disagree with you, but you make great points. Phone Post

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