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UnderGround Forums >> Does Luta Livre still exist/have beef with BJJ?


12/26/12 2:17 PM
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solidsnake
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I didn't know this existed until now


I came to this thread to post a Tank vs Hugo joke and never expected to see Harold Howard get beaten down. This is better than anything I got for the holidays. Thanks sir.
12/26/12 2:27 PM
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UGCTT_45forever
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Paul sass is a LL practitioner right? Phone Post
12/27/12 10:55 AM
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Dallas Winston
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DeuceDroppin - 
Dallas Winston -
DeuceDroppin -  Look up "Roberto Leitao Luta Livre" and you will find some great videos, pictures, and articles. I was fortunate enough to train with him (although just a tiny bit :( ) in Rio a few years ago. The guy is a living legend, and a great guy. He still teaches in Rio, and is still a beast on the mats! Phone Post

Dude ... seriously? Leitao STILL teaches?

He and Tatu are rightfully considered the grandfathers of LL. Fucking awesome that you got to train under him, if but for a minute.

Yeah man..A few years back I trained at Nova Geracao in Leblon (Rio) for a few days, and he was in there a lot. Randomly pulled me to the side and said "let me show you some stuff". He was SUPER nice and spoke really good English. If any of you ever plan on training in Rio, and want to train with him, let me know as I have his email address in my email somewhere as we had emailed back and forth. Not sure what he's doing now, but probably still teaching or training somewhere. Phone Post

Few will realize what an honor it is to have trained with Leitao. That's almost like fucking rolling with Helio. And LOL @ your following post ... Leitao obviously supplements his no-gi training with a body-hair jumpsuit.  :)

Fuck if I'll ever make it to Rio, but I'd love to hit up Leitao for an interview, especially if his English is decent. I've done a lot of work with LL guys and every one claims Tatu and Leitao as the forefathers.

12/27/12 10:58 AM
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Dallas Winston
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OMGClayGuida -  I train a few times a week at Team Kaobon and get to a couple of Luta Livre classes. I've been lucky enough to take a few of those classes from Marcelo Brigadeiro and I can attest to how good a teacher he is. Unfortunately, I've never rolled with him as I'm relatively a beginner but I've spoken to those who have and the common consensus is that you may as well choke yourself out before you even tie up with him. Phone Post

Briga is the fucking man. I've also been told by a few high-level grapplers and MMA fighters that he's an absolute beast on the mats. He did a LL Q&A on the UG a few years ago too.

He's also just a nice and friendly guy -- if you train at Kaobon regularly, I'm sure I can hook you up and get him to roll with you some time ... if that type of punishment could even be considered "hooking someone up."  :)

12/27/12 11:00 AM
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Dallas Winston
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UGCTT_45forever -  Paul sass is a LL practitioner right? Phone Post

Yes, much of that interview I sourced touches on Brigadeiro's LL instruction with Sass. However, Kaobon has a BJJ coach and a really solid wrestling coach as well, so Sass is just a phenomenal MMA grappler but, yes, he's rooted strongly in LL.

12/27/12 2:15 PM
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DeuceDroppin
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Dallas Winston -
DeuceDroppin - 
Dallas Winston -
DeuceDroppin -  Look up "Roberto Leitao Luta Livre" and you will find some great videos, pictures, and articles. I was fortunate enough to train with him (although just a tiny bit :( ) in Rio a few years ago. The guy is a living legend, and a great guy. He still teaches in Rio, and is still a beast on the mats! Phone Post

Dude ... seriously? Leitao STILL teaches?

He and Tatu are rightfully considered the grandfathers of LL. Fucking awesome that you got to train under him, if but for a minute.

Yeah man..A few years back I trained at Nova Geracao in Leblon (Rio) for a few days, and he was in there a lot. Randomly pulled me to the side and said "let me show you some stuff". He was SUPER nice and spoke really good English. If any of you ever plan on training in Rio, and want to train with him, let me know as I have his email address in my email somewhere as we had emailed back and forth. Not sure what he's doing now, but probably still teaching or training somewhere. Phone Post

Few will realize what an honor it is to have trained with Leitao. That's almost like fucking rolling with Helio. And LOL @ your following post ... Leitao obviously supplements his no-gi training with a body-hair jumpsuit.  :)

Fuck if I'll ever make it to Rio, but I'd love to hit up Leitao for an interview, especially if his English is decent. I've done a lot of work with LL guys and every one claims Tatu and Leitao as the forefathers.

Man I'll be honest with you...I didn't know much about him until I looked him up after. Made me really regret not training with him more, as I'm a NoGi guy. I just looked up our old emails and it was in 2008. I'll post a couple of things that I think you'll appreciate!! Phone Post
12/27/12 2:16 PM
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DeuceDroppin
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"Randall
I hope you enjoyed your no-gi training here in Rio.
Attached my "Basic Principles".
You can see them in Ed Beneville Site www.grapplingarts.net ( Writings )
Perhaps translations was not 100 % , but it's acceptable.
Keep in touch

Roberto Leitão

PS Take a look at FIGHT magazine September pag. 80" Phone Post
12/27/12 2:22 PM
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MasterofMartialArts
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Great read guys. Phone Post
12/27/12 2:24 PM
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DeuceDroppin
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• BASIC PRINCIPLES

The theory named “Basic Principles” is the result of more than 30 years of searching , analyzing and making experiments .To be easy to memorize I conceive some sentences that need to have a correct interpretation .You should never go against them . The more you develop your skills ,the more you will understand their utility , so give them a credit , trust in them . Probably some will be more familiar to you or about others you will say "it's obvious !"

A ) In fighting
1 = If I don't know , I will not allow
2 = A systematic repetition is always dangerous
3 = Every part of our body must work permanently
4 = We must keep our forces at same level of opponent's ones
5 = An intelligent movement is a continuous movement
6 = If you control the space you control yours opponent actions
7 = If you support properly , you support strongly
8 = If you didn't conquer the position , suspect of it
9 = Don't show what you are feeling ,but what is convenient for you
10= You always must do something

B ) In training
1 = A fast rhythm means you are not successful going slowly
2 = Consciously experiences are good for developing
3 = The "Tap out" is your protection . Use it , learning something. Phone Post
12/27/12 2:29 PM
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DeuceDroppin
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Some comments about BASIC PRINCIPLES

In a fight
• If I don't know ... Realize a very strong guy ,with little knowledge in grappling that obeys firmly this Principle .He will be a very tuff opponent ,specially in defense skills.
Don't forget that grappling is a continuous process . You have to block all opposite's step. This is the most important Principle.

• Repetition .. When you repeat a position you will give (O) a opportunity to foresee what you are going to do.

• Whole Body .. It's natural that you concentrate your attention at the parts of your body that are involved in one situation ,forgetting the others that could give you a big help. Put them to work now !

• Equal forces .. If you are with one arm going against two arms of (O) ,something is wrong! If you are with your arm going against (O)'s legs ,something is wrong !

• Continuous movements.. In this case you use part of (O)'s forces, that is an intelligent position . Phone Post
12/27/12 2:30 PM
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DeuceDroppin
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• Space ,room control .. A Physic Law says that two bodies can not occupy the same space ,than restrain your (O)'s movements with your body .

• Supporting... Don't spend energy to support nothing ,use the mat or (O)'s body.

• Suspecting ... It always can be a "trap", remember the old saying : " If there is a beautiful fruit in the side walk ,it belongs to somebody or it's spoiled inside ".

• Don't show ... If your (O) doesn't know how you are feeling about a position , he will not know what he should do. If he thinks it's a good position he will try to keep going on.

• Do something.. If you don't do nothing , (O) will be more efficient in his skills, because he doesn't need to be worry about nothing. Phone Post
12/27/12 2:31 PM
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DeuceDroppin
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In training
• In training go slowly ... If you grapple slowly you will defeat first your (O)'s mind and then his body ,but in training he will be a stronger adversary.

• Experiences in training .... It's very important for your development ,make some comments with your teacher.

• "Tap out" in training... Use it to protect yourself ,use it to know yourself and your body's resistance but don't risk yourself ! Only 'tap" when necessary !

Master Roberto C. Leitão Phone Post
12/27/12 2:32 PM
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DeuceDroppin
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• Defense

All defense techniques have 4 steps . The first one is the most important ,due it will save your energy , and reduce your risk. It's easy to understand that you must know your opponent's intention and for this you need to have a good grappling knowledge .
There is the point where theory will help you.

1) Anticipation
2) Technical defense
3) Technical resistance
4) Final resistance

Example :
1 == When you are in the guard and avoid putting your hand in the mat by the side of Opponent’s body exactly between the opponents knee and his chest,
you are a n t e c i p a t i n g .
2 == When in the same position, “O” holds your wrist ( trying to pick an “American arm bar “) and you put your head ,under his arm , you are making the technical defense .
3 == When in the same position ( 2 ) you in addition, hold the wrist of your Opponent , you are making the technical resistance .

Never jump a "step"! Phone Post
12/27/12 2:35 PM
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DeuceDroppin
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The “DON’T” Rule
(Test them with your friend)

In the leg defense (guard ) of your Opponent :
= Don't stretch your arms
= Don't put your neck and arm (just one)
between your opponent's legs.
= Don't bend your neck
= Don't loose your balance
= Don’t put your weight over his legs
= Don't let (O) grapple both arms
Defending in a lateral position :
= Don’t let (O) separate (more than 20 cm. ) your arms
= Don't stretch your arms
= Don’t try to make the guard defense ,putting
your foot and leg in danger Phone Post
12/27/12 2:36 PM
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DeuceDroppin
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When “O” is mounted in you :
= Don't stretch your arms
= Don’t give your back
When you are making a guard :
= Don’t put your foot under your opponent’s
Arm (armpit )
= Don’t let him hold both legs together
= Don’t let him put his knee between your legs
When you are over your “O” ,in a side mount :
= Don’t tighten him too much ,prefer to
block his movement
When you are in his back , attacking his neck with a choke :
= Don’t cross your legs in front of him. Phone Post
12/27/12 2:37 PM
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DeuceDroppin
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Sorry for the formatting! It's the only way I could figure out how to post from my phone. Hope you all enjoy! ;p Phone Post
12/27/12 2:46 PM
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Hywel Teague
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I've both trained and filmed at RFT in Botafogo, it was excellent – Cromado is a great coach and they've got some tough guys there. If you want to see what the training is like you can see some in the vid (second half of the vid, starts 2.15 - link for iPhone
 
I occasionally see Roberto Leitao while I'm around and about. He lives not far from me but I usually see him at Nova Uniao. I walked in on him teaching some moves to Gray Maynard one day, that was interesting. 
 
Pic here on the BJJ Hacks instagram account
 
Roberto is super cool, very enthusiastic and always very keen to show some moves to whoever is interested. He got me and Dennis Asche (UG'er DennisinRio) down on the mat and was showing us some stuff in jeans and t-shirts. I went and used that same stuff later that night in BJJ and caused some decent people real problems, it was great! 
 
From my experiences of filming Milton Vieira and my work at RFT, I'm keen to do something about Luta Livre in the future, but I'm kind of busy with the Red Belts of BJJ documentary I'm making, and if I do something about LL I want to do it justice and do a good job. Def on my to-do list. 
 
 
 
12/27/12 3:14 PM
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Rafael135
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This is purely my opinion and what I experienced growing up.

In 1993, when I was 3 years old. My parents wouldn't let me join a BJJ gym because of the rivalry they had with LL. The two would gather up down the street and just go at it. My parents instead put me in judo. BJJ had just become known as the world's most dominant martial arts due to Royce winning the first UFC as well.

People in Brazil feared the people who practiced the two martial arts. Called them criminals, crazy, violent, uncontrolled, undisciplined, and said the two martial arts were too dangerous.

By 2000, the rivalry seemed to have calmed down a lot. Everyone had already assumed that BJJ was the superior martial art. I think the rivalry died down because of the rising popularity of BJJ throughout the world. LL just couldn't keep up with the number of practitioners vs BJJ's huge numbers

Somewhere along the way the people in Brazil stopped fearing those who practiced BJJ and started to look up to them. People began loving fighters like the Nogueiras. Phone Post
12/27/12 3:35 PM
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Hywel Teague
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Rafael135 -  This is purely my opinion and what I experienced growing up.

In 1993, when I was 3 years old. My parents wouldn't let me join a BJJ gym because of the rivalry they had with LL. The two would gather up down the street and just go at it. My parents instead put me in judo. BJJ had just become known as the world's most dominant martial arts due to Royce winning the first UFC as well.

People in Brazil feared the people who practiced the two martial arts. Called them criminals, crazy, violent, uncontrolled, undisciplined, and said the two martial arts were too dangerous.

By 2000, the rivalry seemed to have calmed down a lot. Everyone had already assumed that BJJ was the superior martial art. I think the rivalry died down because of the rising popularity of BJJ throughout the world. LL just couldn't keep up with the number of practitioners vs BJJ's huge numbers

Somewhere along the way the people in Brazil stopped fearing those who practiced BJJ and started to look up to them. People began loving fighters like the Nogueiras. Phone Post

Great summary. This is exactly the same as what MANY guys here in Rio have told me.
12/27/12 4:00 PM
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aNutterFedorFan
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Sub Phone Post
12/27/12 11:47 PM
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VARIOUS
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Cool adds to this thread


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