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UnderGround Forums >> Zahabi: Silva should drop to 170 for GSP


11/20/12 1:15 AM
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Argo
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Just another quote in the negotiation tactics. The fight will happen and somewhere in the 173-177 range. Both dude will make a crapload of cash and GSP will give a better fight than many expect.

To think gSP doesn't want the fight means you have never watched a countdown or primetime of GSP. That dude is all about living the MMA life (That is his whole life, no kids, wife, anything) and would accept the challenge of a lifetime to face such an opponent. A fight that'll be talked about for decades. His risk is low since most think he'll lose anyway ... but the payoff to his legacy if he wins is astronomical.

This would also build the JBJ fight if AS beats GSP. Make it more epic.

Why would AS care about some up and coming nobody challenger when he has fights like GSP and then JBJ on his plate? Same goes for GSP. The Hendricks and Diaz fights will still be there later in the year.
11/20/12 1:16 AM
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orcus
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"Why don't you complain about Anderson chasing a guy in a division below him? "

Why would I do that? It's a huge fight and a great fight, and a fight I and millions of others would love to see.

"Why is Anderson's bullying somehow GSP's fault? "

Since when does saying "I want to fight this guy" qualify as "bullying"? Anderson has never once said anything about GSP being scared or ducking or said anything at all other than that he is a great champion and this is a huge fight that he wants. What's the problem? 

"Just accept that GSP doesn't want the fight and move on. "

Maybe Anderson would accept it if GSP would actually say, as Anderson did of Jones, and Jones did of Anderson, "hell no I'm not fighting him". You know, instead of this endless cocktease of "we're thinking about it, we're talking about it, we're putting on weight, we're lifting more, right now we're focused on Condit, blah blah blah."

11/20/12 1:29 AM
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Fedors Jim Jams
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orcus - 
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orcus - 

Why do they keep insisting on this charade where GSP has to "move up" to meet Anderson? 

Do the fight at 180, GSP comes in at 188 just like he did this weekend, but with an easier cut. Anderson comes in 5lb less than usual, so 193. Now there is a 5lb difference between them -- just like between GSP and many of his WW opponents no doubt -- and Anderson is smaller and weaker than normal. Shouldn't this be acceptable?

But seriously, they obviously just don't want the fight. Why don't they just say so? Anderson and Jones had no problems saying they didn't want to fight each other. Anderson has no problem saying which fights he doesn't want. Why don't Firaz and GSP drop the constant "we need to talk it over", "we need to think about it", "we need to do it the right way" stuff and just say "we're not interested in the fight at all, if he wants to come to 170 and fight for the title he's welcome to go for it."


you are a fanboy

gsp fighting anyone past 170 means he is moving up.

get anderson silva's pubic hair out of your face and get a better perspective on mma and its weight classes.

Do you mean anyone heavier than 170? Because he's fought many of those. According to him, guys who are as heavy as Anderson was in his 205 fight.

Weight classes are a tool to ensure fighters are within a certain weight range of one another on fight night. That's it. 

What fucking difference does it make if GSP fights a guy who is 195 in the ring at 170 or a guy who is 195 in the ring for a catchweight fight?


guy, you go over all these links and quotes, nitpicking peoples weights to rationalize your fanboy arguments. anyone with common sense can look at gsp and silva side by side and see who the bigger man is. old people, women, little kids can see this. only in mma do fans nitpick this crap. facts are facts. gsp hasn't fought over 170 at all and anderson currently fights at 185 and above.

and having not to make a 25lb weight cut is a big fucking difference. every dude at 170 has to make that cut, gsp, condit, diaz, fitch, alves, etc. they all have comparable cuts and fatigue. every guy would rather make a smaller weight cut. find me someone who made a smaller weight cut between classes or at catchweight and thought they felt WORSE by having to cut LESS.
11/20/12 1:46 AM
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Liyon
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I'm a huge Anderson fan, but if he is so adamant about wanting to fight GSP, he needs to find a way to drop down to 170. End of story.

The guy that wants the fight needs to do what it takes to get it. If he makes 170, the fight will happen.

You can't challenge someone, then expect them to fight out of their weight-class.

It's like Cormier and Jon Jones. Cormier knows he needs to make 205 or the fight isn't happening.
11/20/12 1:48 AM
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xXJayRobXx
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Fight won't happen I that's the case. Phone Post
11/20/12 1:51 AM
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Attila
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KZTT_JonJones'sPublicist -  GSP doesn't want the fight. Why force him? Have Silva fight a middleweight and shut the fuck up about this nonsense unless he is dropping down to 170. Phone Post

Dana is pressuring GSP to fight so everyone can make a ton of money, not to mention give the fans a rare matchup of elite legends. On the other hand, I agree with GSP's camp that Silva should drop to 170 (given the fact that he used to fight there and GSP would be a very small middleweight). On the OTHER hand, I don't buy the excuse that GSP could never go back down to 170 if he stepped up in weight, especially to a catch weight. So he'd put on around 10 lbs (15 max) of muscle and have to take it back off. There's not the slightest bit of convincing evidence that would permanently impair him. It doesn't even pass the "common sense" test.
11/20/12 1:52 AM
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Michael Kn1ght
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Lol @ Z Phone Post
11/20/12 1:53 AM
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RandyDarsh
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Gsp still has a division of killers to fight.
I say a fight against Diaz is more probable at this point. Phone Post
11/20/12 1:54 AM
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orcus
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" anyone with common sense can look at gsp and silva side by side and see who the bigger man is."

They can see who the taller man is, just like GSP vs Condit. 

"and having not to make a 25lb weight cut is a big fucking difference. every dude at 170 has to make that cut, gsp, condit, diaz, fitch, alves, etc. they all have comparable cuts and fatigue. every guy would rather make a smaller weight cut. find me someone who made a smaller weight cut between classes or at catchweight and thought they felt WORSE by having to cut LESS."

You are correct, that was a dumb comment of mine. However it's not like GSP is saying "yeah I fight 200lb guys all the time but they're drained by a cut, this is a 200lb guy who only had to cut 23lb [for a 177 catchweight] instead of 30lb."

11/20/12 2:27 AM
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UGCTT_mousetrap
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Samoa - I'm a huge Silva fan but this shit is ridiculous. I don't want to see a fight where one guy doesn't want to fight the other guy.

At this point I wish Jones would start a pressure campaign with Dana to try to force Anderson into a fight. Phone Post
I agree Phone Post
11/20/12 2:28 AM
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Fedors Jim Jams
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orcus - 

" anyone with common sense can look at gsp and silva side by side and see who the bigger man is."

They can see who the taller man is, just like GSP vs Condit. 

"and having not to make a 25lb weight cut is a big fucking difference. every dude at 170 has to make that cut, gsp, condit, diaz, fitch, alves, etc. they all have comparable cuts and fatigue. every guy would rather make a smaller weight cut. find me someone who made a smaller weight cut between classes or at catchweight and thought they felt WORSE by having to cut LESS."

You are correct, that was a dumb comment of mine. However it's not like GSP is saying "yeah I fight 200lb guys all the time but they're drained by a cut, this is a 200lb guy who only had to cut 23lb [for a 177 catchweight] instead of 30lb."


if you want to think that weight is the only thing that matters when comparing size, okay fine thats your opinion. but thats not how i or many other people judge size. there are many subjective factors like height, reach, weight, etc. its all opinion. weightclass isn't opinion, its fact so there is no arguing it. i just don't believe its the only factor.

last i knew, girls weren't interested in how much a dick weighed. ive never seen a pair of tits and wanted to know what they weighed. a tall chick with a b cup has more tits than a midget with c's.... but its all subjective i guess.
11/20/12 2:32 AM
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Jons Forsberg
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SugaFoot - 
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SugaFoot - 

177.5 lbs is the most fair. I don't think Anderson can cut down to 170


then that's his problem. gps hasn't fought above 170 at all. anderson should call out guys his own size.

Are you implying that Anderson is looking for an easy fight?


"I prefer him over Jon Jones. He's smaller. It'll be a little bit easier. I'll be hit less." - Anderson Silva.
11/20/12 2:33 AM
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mdrndaysamurai
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you can come back down after putting on serious muscle mass - people do it every day. they even have a word for it "catabolic". gsp could come down after putting on serious muscle, but it wouldn't be fun and it would be a while after before he could fight again
11/20/12 2:34 AM
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orcus
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"if you want to think that weight is the only thing that matters when comparing size, okay fine thats your opinion. but thats not how i or many other people judge size. there are many subjective factors like height, reach, weight, etc. its all opinion. weightclass isn't opinion, its fact so there is no arguing it. i just don't believe its the only factor."

Height, reach, and weight are actually the opposite of subjective, they are objectively measured -- for example Condit's height and reach are near identical to Anderson's -- but are not used in dividing the competitors.

Again, how would you (or anyone) suggest we divide fighters if not by weight? What possible system would it make any kind of sense to use?

11/20/12 2:39 AM
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UGCTT_zackthewop
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Joe_Drogan420 - Anderson's unwillingness to face MW challengers is a little baffling.

There's definitely a part of me that still want to see Silva vs GSP though. When do you get to see two guys of that caliber in the octagon together?
Who weidman? Gtfo

He smashes everyone he is not unwilling to fight weidman Chris just doesn't deserve the shot yet. Phone Post
11/20/12 3:00 AM
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Jons Forsberg
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yes he was serious, deal with it fagget.
11/20/12 3:05 AM
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Fedors Jim Jams
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orcus - 

"if you want to think that weight is the only thing that matters when comparing size, okay fine thats your opinion. but thats not how i or many other people judge size. there are many subjective factors like height, reach, weight, etc. its all opinion. weightclass isn't opinion, its fact so there is no arguing it. i just don't believe its the only factor."

Height, reach, and weight are actually the opposite of subjective, they are objectively measured -- for example Condit's height and reach are near identical to Anderson's -- but are not used in dividing the competitors.

Again, how would you (or anyone) suggest we divide fighters if not by weight? What possible system would it make any kind of sense to use?


yes weight class is the best one. but its not some absolute truth. yes height reach weight all have numbers but we've seen these numbers vary all the time. ive seen silva listed at 5'10 i believe back in pride. ive seen height and reaches change all over the place. for the most part it is a good working system. but things like day before weigh ins give guys 24+hour to rehydrate which defeats the purpose of getting a real weigh in. the sports and dollars have grown so much that making weight has become half the battle for these guys nowadays.

sometimes the size difference is just obvious. like gsp vs silva.... or rashad vs jones, or edgar vs maynard. its obvious these guys aren't the same size despite what some weigh in number states.
11/20/12 3:11 AM
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Jons Forsberg
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"But seriously, they obviously just don't want the fight. Why don't they just say so? "

for the same reason Anderson asked a catchweight for Jones when he's fought some of the biggest 205ers already. Trying to save face.
11/20/12 3:31 AM
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Fedors Jim Jams
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Jons Forsberg - "But seriously, they obviously just don't want the fight. Why don't they just say so? "

for the same reason Anderson asked a catchweight for Jones when he's fought some of the biggest 205ers already. Trying to save face.

exactly. these are grown men with careers and families to think about. i understand and get it. but bugging them about it constantly is why people talk about bullying and badgering. dana, silva, and ufc trying to push this when gsp doesn't want it. gsp can't even finish guys at 170... couldn't armbar hardy... never fought past 170. silva should look to 205 for another fight or two and try to line up jones.
11/20/12 3:37 AM
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Megatherium
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Attila - 
KZTT_JonJones'sPublicist -  GSP doesn't want the fight. Why force him? Have Silva fight a middleweight and shut the fuck up about this nonsense unless he is dropping down to 170. Phone Post

Dana is pressuring GSP to fight so everyone can make a ton of money, not to mention give the fans a rare matchup of elite legends. On the other hand, I agree with GSP's camp that Silva should drop to 170 (given the fact that he used to fight there and GSP would be a very small middleweight). On the OTHER hand, I don't buy the excuse that GSP could never go back down to 170 if he stepped up in weight, especially to a catch weight. So he'd put on around 10 lbs (15 max) of muscle and have to take it back off. There's not the slightest bit of convincing evidence that would permanently impair him. It doesn't even pass the "common sense" test.

Ironically, packing on extra muscle is exactly how Anderson became a middleweight himself back when his mma career was stalled and he was thinking about seriously pursuing kickboxing. He deliberately built his rail thin frame up to 200 pounds to try to get K-1 to take an interest in him. This was back during his last days with Chute Boxe, in the 03-04 period.
11/20/12 4:05 AM
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greg155
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UGCTT_zackthewop - 
Joe_Drogan420 - Anderson's unwillingness to face MW challengers is a little baffling.

There's definitely a part of me that still want to see Silva vs GSP though. When do you get to see two guys of that caliber in the octagon together?
Who weidman? Gtfo

He smashes everyone he is not unwilling to fight weidman Chris just doesn't deserve the shot yet. Phone Post

yeah you're right, he hasn't talked enough shit on twitter yet to get the title shot.
11/20/12 4:21 AM
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MdGeist
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Asking Anderson to drop to 170 is not a realistic offer.

A 177.5-180lbs. catchweight would be fair but GSP should have stipulation that they must re-weigh on fight day and Anderson can't weigh more than 190-195lbs.
11/20/12 4:32 AM
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Mexican Janitor
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To put things into perspective; St Pierre's
last fight was at 170 - Silvas last fight was at 205. Not only that..that was St Pierre's first fight in nearly two years and he has legitimate contenders lined up for his belt. He's being forced into moving up a weight class to fight a guy that just fought two weight classes above him. This already is a borderline circus fight..just have them fight at an open weight at this point Phone Post
11/20/12 7:32 AM
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chris curry
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Enough with this shit. Ok why wouldn't GSP be able to go back down in weight? Why can't they meet in the middle? That would be Anderson cutting more and gsp cutting less. This is all retarded you can clearly tell gsp does not want this fight
11/20/12 7:46 AM
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georgejonesjr
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chris curry - Enough with this shit. Ok why wouldn't GSP be able to go back down in weight? Why can't they meet in the middle? That would be Anderson cutting more and gsp cutting less. This is all retarded you can clearly tell gsp does not want this fight

I don't know how the physiology works, but it seems to be true. Its happened to quite a few boxers (Roy Jones Jr for instance) who put on weight for one fight, then are considerably slower when they try to drop weight divisions again. Same for judo people - its pretty much known that once you go up a weight division, for most its impossible to be successful at the lower division again.

I think Orcus's argument that he doesn't necessarily have to go up in weight to fight at a catch of 177.5 makes more sense ... especially if there was a clause in there saying that neither fighter can be more than say 190 or 195 on a weigh in ten minutes before the fight.

Now if GSP was going to fight Anderson at 185 (ie for the MW title), then he would have to put on weight, he's too small for MW. And unless he's one of the exceptions, it means he'd never be a good WW again. So catch weight makes more sense.

I think GSP is torn on whether to take the fight or not. On the one hand he knows as well as everyone else that he's almost certainly going to lose, and be KO'd in the process. That can't be something to look forward to. On the other hand, it means a lot of money. He's probably undecided on whether he'll make more money taking the fight and losing (and possibly being wrecked for future fights because of a brutal KO and the scar tissue on the brain that comes with that), or not taking the fight and staying in MMA for another five years (and possibly getting KO'd by someone else - everyone slips up) for less money.

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