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UnderGround Forums >> Zahabi: Silva should drop to 170 for GSP


11/20/12 1:13 PM
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orcus
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"im sure the difference is much clearer in person. go find some guys with similar heights/weight and see for yourself."

All we have to do is look at GSP vs Condit.

11/20/12 1:29 PM
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suess
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KingOfFighters - 
guardbr8kr -
KingOfFighters -  Gsp should just admit he has no interest in the fight. Jesus christ gsp and his trainer act like they'd have to go through some life altering moves to fight anderson.

People move up and down all the time in all combat sports


Just admit you dont have the stones georgie Phone Post

"Just admit you dont have the stones georgie"


Ya, a guy that consistently has taken on the #1 contenders and destroyed them for years doesn't have the stones?

IDIOT.
Georgie turns into a politician whenever asked about anderson....he doesn't have the stones to reach that pacqiao ali sugar ray status.


So in ur mind he can duck anderson and its not cowardice? Only in mma are pussies not given shit for it. Phone Post

GSP is a WW.  how is he a coward for not fighting a MW / LHW?  

11/20/12 1:33 PM
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Samoa
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Lol@ the concept that GSP is ducking a champion in a bigger division. JDS said he'd knock Jones out. Is Jones ducking JDS now? C'mon.

If GSP wants to stay in his division, I don't see the issue. I'm a huge fan of both, but IMO Anderson is far better equipped to move up to 205 than GSP is to go to 185.

Anderson has fought repeatedly at 205. He beat a former titleholder. He just fought at 205. He's a striker, not a ground and pound guy. All this points to it making more sense for Anderson to move up and fight for the title than GSP who has never even fought "up". Anderson didn't fight for the title his first, second, OR third time up at 205. Why would he expect GSP to do so?

At the end of the day, I'm a huge fan of both and if only one of them wants the fight.....I don't want to see a fight where one guy wants to fight and the other doesn't. Phone Post
11/20/12 1:36 PM
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Fedors Jim Jams
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orcus - 

He's taller BECAUSE he has longer legs. He does not have noticeably longer arms according to the tape measure, although since it's wingspan I guess GSP could just have broader shoulders -- but that seems impossible because you guys keep talking about how much bigger Anderson's "frame" is. And he weighs (somewhat) more because he is fighting in higher weightclasses. He would not have a significant weight advantage at a catchweight; all evidence points to this.

"im sure the difference is much clearer in person."

Yes, GSP at fighting weight and Anderson at non-fighting weight is probably a very clear difference; however that's not how they'd be fighting.

" id like to see silva fight rashad or shogun or comparable... and jones dabble in hw against kongo or schaub or comparable."

The weight difference between every one of the fights you just listed is bigger than that between GSP and Anderson, even comparing GSP's weight at welter to Anderson's at middle. But I guess there's nothing as immediately obvious to the eye as height, so they must really be the same size.

If not for Anderson's longer, skinnier legs, he and GSP are built almost the exact same size, and this is with Anderson at MW rather than a catchweight:

Photobucket


lol dude if you want to believe that gsp and silva are the same dude except that silva has longer go go gadget legs then thats your problem. i don't think ive seen 2 guys have 4" height difference have the same torso, let alone 2 mma champs that just happen to be in the next weight class up and down.

mma starts on the feet, height and reach matter instantly. mma isnt bjj or wrestling or grappling, where weight/density matter instantly. i listed those other fights because i personally believe there's more to it than just weight, obviously. weight can be gained or lost. jones is good enough to test hw, silva is good enough to test 205, gsp isn't good enough 185. one of the reason i believe is because of the size involved. its not a coincidence that jones has only fought 1 guy thats been within 2" of his height, and silva has only fought 4 guys his height or more. gsp has fought constantly against taller guys these last few years without finishing, condit, shields, fitch, hardy.

its a combination of factors to make a fight. gsp vs silva is just an emotional decision not a rational one.
11/20/12 1:44 PM
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DreamSTi
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Edited: 11/20/12 1:45 PM
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http://smg.beta.photobucket.com/user/DreamSTi/media/gsp_silva-side-by-side.jpg.html
11/20/12 1:53 PM
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orcus
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" its not a coincidence that jones has only fought 1 guy thats been within 2" of his height"

You are correct, it's not a coincidence at all. It's because every one of the top fighters in his division is on the shorter -- in terms of height AND reach -- side of that division, despite there being no shortage of tall and rangy guys up there.

"gsp vs silva is just an emotional decision not a rational one."

It's perfectly rational. Here are the reasons:

  1. It would be the biggest fight in MMA.
  2. They are #1 and #2 p4p.
  3. They are the two top contenders for GOAT.
  4. They fight in the same organization.
  5. They have both cleaned out their divisions and are on their second go-rounds.
  6. They are both head and shoulders above everyone else and their fights have not been competitive.
  7. They are the two most well-known fighters in the sport.
  8. At a catchweight, all signs point to them being within 5-7lb of one another, which is an entirely typical weight gap in ANY fight INSIDE a division.
What's "emotional" is saying "Anderson is too big!" just because he prefers cutting less and fighting in a higher weightclass, rather than RATIONALLY seeing that he weighed less for a 205 fight against a 223lb opponent than most middleweights weigh for their 185 fights.
 
Anderson starting camp for Sonnen: 209
Anderson a week before Sonnen: 198
 
Hendricks starting camp: 210
Hendricks two weeks before fight: 195
 
Bisping starting camp: 230
Bisping week before fight: 205
 
 
11/20/12 1:54 PM
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KingOfFighters
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suess -
KingOfFighters - 
guardbr8kr -
KingOfFighters -  Gsp should just admit he has no interest in the fight. Jesus christ gsp and his trainer act like they'd have to go through some life altering moves to fight anderson.

People move up and down all the time in all combat sports


Just admit you dont have the stones georgie Phone Post

"Just admit you dont have the stones georgie"


Ya, a guy that consistently has taken on the #1 contenders and destroyed them for years doesn't have the stones?

IDIOT.
Georgie turns into a politician whenever asked about anderson....he doesn't have the stones to reach that pacqiao ali sugar ray status.


So in ur mind he can duck anderson and its not cowardice? Only in mma are pussies not given shit for it. Phone Post

GSP is a WW.  how is he a coward for not fighting a MW / LHW?  

He was calked out, and he's dick tucking. If some guy grabs ur wifes ass ur guna tell her ur not a coward because he was bigger than u? Phone Post
11/20/12 1:56 PM
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orcus
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Photobucket

 

You can clearly see Anderson's kneecap is 2" higher than GSP's. There's 2" of the 4" height difference right there, his skinny calf is 2" longer than GSP's. I wonder how much his skinnier thigh makes up?

11/20/12 1:59 PM
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suess
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KingOfFighters - 
suess -
KingOfFighters - 
guardbr8kr -
KingOfFighters -  Gsp should just admit he has no interest in the fight. Jesus christ gsp and his trainer act like they'd have to go through some life altering moves to fight anderson.

People move up and down all the time in all combat sports


Just admit you dont have the stones georgie Phone Post

"Just admit you dont have the stones georgie"


Ya, a guy that consistently has taken on the #1 contenders and destroyed them for years doesn't have the stones?

IDIOT.
Georgie turns into a politician whenever asked about anderson....he doesn't have the stones to reach that pacqiao ali sugar ray status.


So in ur mind he can duck anderson and its not cowardice? Only in mma are pussies not given shit for it. Phone Post

GSP is a WW.  how is he a coward for not fighting a MW / LHW?  

He was calked out, and he's dick tucking. If some guy grabs ur wifes ass ur guna tell her ur not a coward because he was bigger than u? Phone Post

what a herpa derp of a comparison.  when did Andy grab GSP's wife's ass?  you're a fucking moran.  

 

 

11/20/12 2:05 PM
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KingOfFighters
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suess -
KingOfFighters - 
suess -
KingOfFighters - 
guardbr8kr -
KingOfFighters -  Gsp should just admit he has no interest in the fight. Jesus christ gsp and his trainer act like they'd have to go through some life altering moves to fight anderson.

People move up and down all the time in all combat sports


Just admit you dont have the stones georgie Phone Post

"Just admit you dont have the stones georgie"


Ya, a guy that consistently has taken on the #1 contenders and destroyed them for years doesn't have the stones?

IDIOT.
Georgie turns into a politician whenever asked about anderson....he doesn't have the stones to reach that pacqiao ali sugar ray status.


So in ur mind he can duck anderson and its not cowardice? Only in mma are pussies not given shit for it. Phone Post

GSP is a WW.  how is he a coward for not fighting a MW / LHW?  

He was calked out, and he's dick tucking. If some guy grabs ur wifes ass ur guna tell her ur not a coward because he was bigger than u? Phone Post

what a herpa derp of a comparison.  when did Andy grab GSP's wife's ass?  you're a fucking moran.  

 

 

Is he not a man? Where's the bravado? Where is his budo. I have a boxing background, dick tucking is not forgiven, especially when gsp has the talent to beat him, just doesn't have the confidence or conviction. Phone Post
11/20/12 2:09 PM
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suess
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what does any of that have to do with anything?  

why do you think he is required to fight Andy?  why is he a pussy or coward if he doesn't move up to fight a guy who has been successful against big LHWs?  

just admit you're a GSP hater and move on.  

11/20/12 2:13 PM
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Fedors Jim Jams
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orcus - 

" its not a coincidence that jones has only fought 1 guy thats been within 2" of his height"

You are correct, it's not a coincidence at all. It's because every one of the top fighters in his division is on the shorter -- in terms of height AND reach -- side of that division, despite there being no shortage of tall and rangy guys up there.

"gsp vs silva is just an emotional decision not a rational one."

It's perfectly rational. Here are the reasons:

  1. It would be the biggest fight in MMA.
  2. They are #1 and #2 p4p.
  3. They are the two top contenders for GOAT.
  4. They fight in the same organization.
  5. They have both cleaned out their divisions and are on their second go-rounds.
  6. They are both head and shoulders above everyone else and their fights have not been competitive.
  7. They are the two most well-known fighters in the sport.
  8. At a catchweight, all signs point to them being within 5-7lb of one another, which is an entirely typical weight gap in ANY fight INSIDE a division.
What's "emotional" is saying "Anderson is too big!" just because he prefers cutting less and fighting in a higher weightclass, rather than RATIONALLY seeing that he weighed less for a 205 fight against a 223lb opponent than most middleweights weigh for their 185 fights.
 
Anderson starting camp for Sonnen: 209
Anderson a week before Sonnen: 198
 
Hendricks starting camp: 210
Hendricks two weeks before fight: 195
 
Bisping starting camp: 230
Bisping week before fight: 205
 
 

once again, your hung up on weight, nitpicking through internet sources which may or may not be true. the point of the weight classes is to contain size disparities so that skills and abilities can be displayed thereby proving who is the better fighter.

lol at your "rational" list. and even on that poor list 7/8 of those points can be used to describe silva vs jones as well.

gsp doesn't even finish guys at 170, the last guys he finished at 170 was a stoppage between rounds by bjpenn who isn't really a 170lber. and gsp has never fought above that... not even a 175lb catchweight against the 45 ranked fighter. meanwhile silva is finishing good fighters like griffin and bonnar at 205. who cares about their weights or sizes truthfully. the results speak for themselves.
11/20/12 2:24 PM
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orcus
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Edited: 11/20/12 2:24 PM
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" nitpicking through internet sources which may or may not be true"

What would be your rationale for being skeptical of the numbers given by at least three people in Anderson's camp, given that we factually KNOW he weighed 202 for a 205 fight, and 182 for a 185 fight, and that in his 30s he fought at 175?

And yes, I'm hung up on weight, because weight is how the competitors are divided, and weight is the only physical distinction between Anderson and similarly tall, lanky fighters in GSP's own division like Condit and Saunders and Swick.

"lol at your "rational" list. and even on that poor list 7/8 of those points can be used to describe silva vs jones as well."

I would certainly be excited for Jones vs Silva and have zero complaints about the matchup.

" the point of the weight classes is to contain size disparities so that skills and abilities can be displayed thereby proving who is the better fighter."

Exactly. Do you disagree that 5-7lb is a small enough weight difference so that skills and abilities can be displayed? If so, you must have a big problem with plenty of fights in every division. 

" who cares about their weights or sizes truthfully. the results speak for themselves."

So you're against the fight simply because one is a dominating control fighter and the other is a dominating finish fighter? I remember the days when fans thought style vs style was actually exciting...And all I ever hear is how weak Anderson's competition is while GSP's is levels above.

11/20/12 2:27 PM
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if they are that fucking close in size, he can go to 170.  the truth is, he's NOT that close in size.  all the stats and bullshit in the world is not going to change that. 

11/20/12 2:28 PM
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Daverr
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suess - 
MMALOGIC - 

GSP was around 190 and BJ penn was 168 when they fought. 


If GSP called out Penn, you'd have a point here.  



so penn didnt pack on any weight after the weigh in

highly unlikely
11/20/12 2:30 PM
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KingOfFighters
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what does any of that have to do with anything?  

why do you think he is required to fight Andy?  why is he a pussy or coward if he doesn't move up to fight a guy who has been successful against big LHWs?  

just admit you're a GSP hater and move on.  

This man had said huge bold words, that he wanted to be mentioned with the likes of duran and leonard. That he aspires to reach goat status.


Leonard was never a punk bitch, he fought haggler, but its ok if gsp ducks anderson? Phone Post
11/20/12 2:30 PM
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kid chaos -  Think gsp is being pressured into a fight he doesn't want. He knows he can't beat Anderson.

Same can be said for why Anderson won't fight bones, don't buy the "friends" bullshit. Anderson knows there is a good chance he will lose. Phone Post

Kind of my thought as well...
11/20/12 2:31 PM
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suess
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suess -

what does any of that have to do with anything?  

why do you think he is required to fight Andy?  why is he a pussy or coward if he doesn't move up to fight a guy who has been successful against big LHWs?  

just admit you're a GSP hater and move on.  

This man had said huge bold words, that he wanted to be mentioned with the likes of duran and leonard. That he aspires to reach goat status.


Leonard was never a punk bitch, he fought haggler, but its ok if gsp ducks anderson? Phone Post

are you calling GSP a punk bitch?  you're such a troll.  you got me good, you fucker!

11/20/12 2:37 PM
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UGCTT_I Got Fitched Up
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Just a couple months ago Firas said that GSP told him he wants to fight Anderson. He also said that he thinks a CATCHWEIGHT of 177 would be "fair".

Now that the fight is closer firas is flip flopping like Romney once the primaries were over.... Phone Post
11/20/12 2:37 PM
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orcus
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Edited: 11/20/12 2:45 PM
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suess - 

if they are that fucking close in size, he can go to 170.  the truth is, he's NOT that close in size.  all the stats and bullshit in the world is not going to change that. 

 

Is this where we pretend every fighter can automatically cut as much weight as any other and perform just as well? Johnny Hendricks says in college he cut from 205 to wrestle at 165 and now he cuts from 195 to 170, why doesn't everyone do that? Or why doesn't he cut the same amount? He's smaller AND cutting less. Meanwhile Mike Swick is fighting at 170 while only weighing 180.

 

"he's NOT that close in size.  all the stats and bullshit in the world is not going to change that. "

lol @ the notion that "size" isn't 100% defined by stats.

11/20/12 2:38 PM
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orcus
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UGCTT_I Got Fitched Up -  Just a couple months ago Firas said that GSP told him he wants to fight Anderson. He also said that he thinks a CATCHWEIGHT of 177 would be "fair".

Now that the fight is closer firas is flip flopping like Romney once the primaries were over.... Phone Post

Exactly.

August 9 2012: ""Georges St-Pierre told me he wants (to fight Anderson Silva). But right now he has to get back on the horse and fight Carlos Condit and be champion again. He needs to keep focused. (If the Silva fight happens) ideally I'd like a catch weight. I think it'd be more fair. If you fight at a catch weight, Silva won't be 20 pounds heavier. 177 or 178 pounds is much more fair.""

What happened to that?

11/20/12 2:39 PM
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UGCTT_I Got Fitched Up
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BJ said he was 172 in the cage. Gsp said he was 185-7. Iirc.

That's twice the difference in weight (roughly) that there would be if gsp/Andy met at 177.5. Phone Post
11/20/12 2:40 PM
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UGCTT_I Got Fitched Up
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Aaaaand here come he vote Downs from Jon faggsberg glovegate and the whole clan who vote me down every day even when I don't post. Keep going losers. I could give two shits. Phone Post
11/20/12 2:40 PM
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KingOfFighters
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suess -
KingOfFighters - 
suess -

what does any of that have to do with anything?  

why do you think he is required to fight Andy?  why is he a pussy or coward if he doesn't move up to fight a guy who has been successful against big LHWs?  

just admit you're a GSP hater and move on.  

This man had said huge bold words, that he wanted to be mentioned with the likes of duran and leonard. That he aspires to reach goat status.


Leonard was never a punk bitch, he fought haggler, but its ok if gsp ducks anderson? Phone Post

are you calling GSP a punk bitch?  you're such a troll.  you got me good, you fucker!

Henderson isn't a punk bitch either, he didn't ask minotauro to step on a scale before deciding to fight him in rings. Phone Post
11/20/12 2:42 PM
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suess
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orcus - 
suess - 

if they are that fucking close in size, he can go to 170.  the truth is, he's NOT that close in size.  all the stats and bullshit in the world is not going to change that. 


Is this where we pretend every fighter can automatically cut as much weight as any other and perform just as well? Johnny Hendricks says in college he cut from 205 to wrestle at 165 and now he cuts from 195 to 170, why doesn't everyone do that? Meanwhile Mike Swick is fighting at 170 while only weighing 180.

"he's NOT that close in size.  all the stats and bullshit in the world is not going to change that. "

lol @ the notion that "size" isn't 100% defined by stats.


stats AND bullshit.  

i bet if we ever see them in the cage together it will be clear that there is a decent size difference.  


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