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UnderGround Forums >> Zahabi: Silva should drop to 170 for GSP


11/20/12 3:23 PM
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orcus
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Why am I not surprised you carefully filed my zipcode away, along with my dietary habits, my hobbies, and my photo?

Not at all something "a woman" would do.

11/20/12 3:24 PM
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orcus
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Mods, please ban Jon Creepsberg for his repeated blatant trolling and real world threats. Let him live out his days at Fightsport where he can impersonate me to his heart's content.

11/20/12 3:26 PM
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Jons Forsberg
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Vegan.
from Gheitersburg? something like that.
George W Bush look alike.


I'm getting closer by the minute.
11/20/12 3:30 PM
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suess
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orcus - 

I'm arguing this because a bunch of dopes are saying a bunch of wrong things over and over on a forum I frequent and it annoys me, and it's fun to point out why they're wrong. Plus there's always the outside chance someone will realize their error and that will be one less person bleating bullshit.

Meanwhile, you're arguing things you don't even believe in, just to be a douche. And accusations of being "a woman" from someone who impersonated a male on another forum, complete with his photo, are hilarious.


i'm a dope now? 

what did i say that was wrong? 

is it seriously that unrealistic to think a guy who looked fine next to huge LHWs would be larger than a guy who doesn't look huge next to WWs?  

 

11/20/12 3:30 PM
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6ULDV8
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Haven't read all this yet, but don't call out a smaller guy in a weight you can't make.  That's a bitch move.

 

Calling out a smaller legend and fighting them in their weight class is honorable.  Telling smaller guys to move up in weight because you're too big to fight at their weight is a bitch move.

11/20/12 3:34 PM
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orcus
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I didn't classify you as a dope, unless you're one of those who keeps repeating things like "Anderson is 225, that's way too big for GSP".

Things you said that were wrong: If Anderson and GSP are close in weight, there's no reason Anderson shouldn't be able to cut to 170 and perform just as well. Stats are "bullshit" when it comes to size. Anderson saying he still doesn't want to fight Jones, but would consider it since the fans and promoter want it, is a flip-flop.

"is it seriously that unrealistic to think a guy who looked fine next to huge LHWs would be larger than a guy who doesn't look huge next to WWs?  "

He would look larger, just as Condit did. Everything points to him not BEING significantly larger in terms of weight than many other welters -- not just GSP -- are to other welters. And we already know he is not larger than other welters in terms of anything other than weight, since guys like Saunders, Condit, and Swick all have the same or greater height and reach.

11/20/12 3:37 PM
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Bick Koxer
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orcus - 

Why do they keep insisting on this charade where GSP has to "move up" to meet Anderson? 

Do the fight at 180, GSP comes in at 188 just like he did this weekend, but with an easier cut. Anderson comes in 5lb less than usual, so 193. Now there is a 5lb difference between them -- just like between GSP and many of his WW opponents no doubt -- and Anderson is smaller and weaker than normal. Shouldn't this be acceptable?

But seriously, they obviously just don't want the fight. Why don't they just say so? Anderson and Jones had no problems saying they didn't want to fight each other. Anderson has no problem saying which fights he doesn't want. Why don't Firaz and GSP drop the constant "we need to talk it over", "we need to think about it", "we need to do it the right way" stuff and just say "we're not interested in the fight at all, if he wants to come to 170 and fight for the title he's welcome to go for it."


Good news! AS already said the reason he's calling out GSP is because GSP is smaller and an easier fight, so you don't have any need to keep humiliating yourself by coming to Silva's defense with your ridiculous arguments about how they are the same size.

11/20/12 3:39 PM
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Jons Forsberg
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"I didn't classify you as a dope, unless you're one of those who keeps repeating things like "Anderson is 225, that's way too big for GSP"."


that'd be Ed Soares.
11/20/12 3:40 PM
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orcus
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"Good news! AS already said the reason he's calling out GSP is because GSP is smaller and an easier fight, so you don't have any need to keep humiliating yourself by coming to Silva's defense with your ridiculous arguments about how they are the same size."

Smaller than Jones. Silva is also smaller than Jones.  And I never said GSP and Anderson are the same size, I said there would be no more significant/unreasonable size difference between them at a catchweight than there is between GSP and welter opponents.

11/20/12 3:41 PM
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orcus
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Jons Forsberg - "I didn't classify you as a dope, unless you're one of those who keeps repeating things like "Anderson is 225, that's way too big for GSP"."


that'd be Ed Soares.

Agreed. 

11/20/12 3:46 PM
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Fedors Jim Jams
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Jons Forsberg - you're right it's not about the p4p. You're arguing this for the same reason you'll argue over anything, because you're a woman.

he's just defending his man, since andy isn't here to do so. orcus luv andy long time.
11/20/12 3:53 PM
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Fedors Jim Jams
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orcus - 

"Good news! AS already said the reason he's calling out GSP is because GSP is smaller and an easier fight, so you don't have any need to keep humiliating yourself by coming to Silva's defense with your ridiculous arguments about how they are the same size."

Smaller than Jones. Silva is also smaller than Jones.  And I never said GSP and Anderson are the same size, I said there would be no more significant/unreasonable size difference between them at a catchweight than there is between GSP and welter opponents.


dude say weight difference, don't say size difference. your basing everything around weight which isn't equal to size. weight is is only 1 factor of size.
11/20/12 4:00 PM
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orcus
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orcus - 

"Good news! AS already said the reason he's calling out GSP is because GSP is smaller and an easier fight, so you don't have any need to keep humiliating yourself by coming to Silva's defense with your ridiculous arguments about how they are the same size."

Smaller than Jones. Silva is also smaller than Jones.  And I never said GSP and Anderson are the same size, I said there would be no more significant/unreasonable size difference between them at a catchweight than there is between GSP and welter opponents.


dude say weight difference, don't say size difference. your basing everything around weight which isn't equal to size. weight is is only 1 factor of size.

Like I said: There would be no more significant size difference between Anderson and GSP at a catchweight than there is between GSP and other welter opponents. They would likely be within about 5lb of each other -- same as many if not most welterweight fights, or fights in any division -- and in terms of reach and height, Anderson is matched or even exceeded by welters Condit, Swick, and Saunders. With Nick Diaz not far behind.

11/20/12 4:04 PM
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Fedors Jim Jams
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orcus - 
Fedors Jim Jams - 
orcus - 

"Good news! AS already said the reason he's calling out GSP is because GSP is smaller and an easier fight, so you don't have any need to keep humiliating yourself by coming to Silva's defense with your ridiculous arguments about how they are the same size."

Smaller than Jones. Silva is also smaller than Jones.  And I never said GSP and Anderson are the same size, I said there would be no more significant/unreasonable size difference between them at a catchweight than there is between GSP and welter opponents.


dude say weight difference, don't say size difference. your basing everything around weight which isn't equal to size. weight is is only 1 factor of size.

Like I said: There would be no more significant size difference between Anderson and GSP at a catchweight than there is between GSP and other welter opponents. They would likely be within about 5lb of each other -- same as many if not most welterweight fights, or fights in any division -- and in terms of reach and height, Anderson is matched or even exceeded by welters Condit, Swick, and Saunders. With Nick Diaz not far behind.


and who out of that group has gsp defeated or finished?

exactly why do you want to see gsp vs silva?
11/20/12 4:10 PM
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Samoa
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At some point one can remove the numbers game (he weighed this ___ weeks out, and then ____ at the time he went into the Octagon, etc) and realize that:

Anderson fought big 205'ers.  Bonnar was juiced and huge.  Irvin fought heavyweight at one point and was probably under 10% bodyfat when he fought heavyweight.  Forrest made Rampage look small and absolutely DWARFED Rich Franklin (a natural middleweight who moved up to 205).  Anderson looked about the same size as these guys when they fought.  If there was size difference, it was negligible.

GSP has been the smaller fighter in several of his fights (Alves, Fitch, Condit, for example) at 170.  There was a more noticeable difference in size between GSP and these fighters than there was between Anderson and the Light Heavyweight fighters he fought.

Again, if GSP wants this fight, I'd love to see it.  But if he doesn't, I can completely see the reason why.  To not at least acknowledge the "size" difference is silly IMO.  If you can honestly say that there wouldn't be a SIGNIFICANT size advantage for Anderson no matter what weight they fought at, there really is no point in discussion.  Not in a bad way; it would just be us seeing things differently.

LOL@ the Sugar Ray Leonard reference.  He was going from being a title holder at 154 to 160 and HE was the one calling out the Champion at the time.  Not the same at all in the GSP v Silva situation.

A WTF-Flip-The-Script-Moment would be if Anderson just says "fuck it.  I'll make 170, what now?!?"

11/20/12 4:13 PM
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orcus
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"and who out of that group has gsp defeated or finished?"

He just won 4 rounds against Condit and was in trouble about 20 seconds out of 25 minutes. I'm sure most of us think he would tool the others. 

"exactly why do you want to see gsp vs silva?"

It's a huge fight that would have loads of hype and excitement around it. Everyone would be electrified in the seats when they walked back to their corners after the staredown. If GSP won it would be a thrilling underdog victory and make him the GOAT forever; if Anderson won, it would quite possibly set up Anderson vs Jones. It would be exciting to see if Anderson could be the only guy to stop GSP's takedowns other than Koscheck, or if GSP could dominate with his wrestling and smothering top game.

That said, I'd rather see Jones vs Silva, simply because with a win there it would be Anderson who would be indisputable GOAT, and I'm a bigger fan of Anderson. But given the choice I'd rather see both fights.

11/20/12 4:19 PM
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orcus
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"Anderson fought big 205'ers.  Bonnar was juiced and huge.  Irvin fought heavyweight at one point and was probably under 10% bodyfat when he fought heavyweight.  Forrest made Rampage look small and absolutely DWARFED Rich Franklin (a natural middleweight who moved up to 205).  Anderson looked about the same size as these guys when they fought.  If there was size difference, it was negligible."

On the other hand, Anderson also looked about the same size as Demian Maia when they fought, and Demian was considered an undersized middle who is now at welter, GSP's class:

 

...so doesn't it make sense to assume that Anderson, unsurprisingly, looks bigger when fighting up in weight and smaller when fighting down in weight? And that he would be smaller still at a catchweight?

P.S. Rich looks shorter but thicker/more muscular than Forrest imo (beep):

 

11/20/12 4:19 PM
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Fedors Jim Jams
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orcus - 

"and who out of that group has gsp defeated or finished?"

He just won 4 rounds against Condit and was in trouble about 20 seconds out of 25 minutes. I'm sure most of us think he would tool the others. 

"exactly why do you want to see gsp vs silva?"

It's a huge fight that would have loads of hype and excitement around it. Everyone would be electrified in the seats when they walked back to their corners after the staredown. If GSP won it would be a thrilling underdog victory and make him the GOAT forever; if Anderson won, it would quite possibly set up Anderson vs Jones. It would be exciting to see if Anderson could be the only guy to stop GSP's takedowns other than Koscheck, or if GSP could dominate with his wrestling and smothering top game.

That said, I'd rather see Jones vs Silva, simply because with a win there it would be Anderson who would be indisputable GOAT, and I'm a bigger fan of Anderson. But given the choice I'd rather see both fights.


-so gsp won another decision against a taller fighter at 170... while silva finish guys at 205.

-beating the 170lb champ setups up a fight withe 205 champ

-u wanna see if andy can stop gsp takedowns, though he can stop sonnen, okami, bonnar

-u think either one of these guys is goat

alright, you win. no more arguments from me broseph
11/20/12 4:21 PM
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Fedors Jim Jams
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yeah maia and silva looked the same... sure.
11/20/12 4:24 PM
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Samoa
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Orcus -

Did you watch the Forrest v Rich Franklin fight?  If you did, there is NO way you didn't see a HUGE size differential between those two fighters.  No way.

11/20/12 4:28 PM
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orcus
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"so gsp won another decision against a taller fighter at 170... while silva finish guys at 205."

Condit, Diaz, Hendricks, Swick, Saunders finish fights at 170, GSP doesn't...who wins between GSP and those guys? And since when is an expectation of one fighter winning a match a reason not to make the match anyway? Everyone thinks Jones would take Anderson down and elbow a hole through his head, but no one seems opposed to that matchup.

"beating the 170lb champ setups up a fight withe 205 champ"

Winning one of only two legitimately possible superfights in the sport sets up the sole remaining one, yes.

"u wanna see if andy can stop gsp takedowns, though he can stop sonnen, okami, bonnar"

GSP has the best takedowns in the entire sport. 

"u think either one of these guys is goat"

Uh, duh. Of course.

"yeah maia and silva looked the same... sure."

They looked "about the same", as Samoa said of Anderson/Forrest/Bonnar.

 

 

11/20/12 4:30 PM
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orcus
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Edited: 11/20/12 4:32 PM
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Samoa - 

Orcus -

Did you watch the Forrest v Rich Franklin fight?  If you did, there is NO way you didn't see a HUGE size differential between those two fighters.  No way.

 

There's a significant height difference. I don't otherwise see a significant difference in "size", no. If you guys just mean height, I don't know why you can't just say "taller" rather than "bigger".

 

11/20/12 4:34 PM
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Samoa
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Orcus -

Again, did you watch that fight?  Stills are one thing.  Forrest was WAY bigger than Franklin.  Did you see the interviews leading up to the fight?  Franklin must have said "He's a big dude.  He's huge" like fifty times.

Again, if you watched that fight and didn't see a big size differential (height AND weight)...........I'll bow out of the discussion.

 

11/20/12 4:40 PM
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orcus
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I'd have to watch it again, but I don't know why stills would be different from moving footage. The only explanation I can think of is that due to positioning, in the stills height is generally taken out of the equation. 

Forrest says he's 225 in the ring, Rich is probably 215-217 iirc, so 8-10lb for two guys of basically the same build where one is 2" taller sounds right to me and should not result in a "huge" difference in apparent size other than height.

I definitely don't remember thinking it was like the Tibau/Uno fight, for example. 

11/20/12 4:42 PM
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orcus
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Edited: 11/20/12 4:45 PM
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Now in the case of Forrest vs Anderson, I do think Forrest looks "bigger" -- not just taller -- than Anderson, who is already carrying extra fat at that weight:

 

But in any case, it's a bit silly...Anderson at 6'2" and carrying more weight is of course not going to look dramatically outsized by a 6'3" lightheavy. 

A tall fighter has more leeway to move up or down imo, and will not "look" or even necessarily be outsized at various weights. Anderson's frame lets him fit right in at whichever weight he competes in; I don't remember people complaining about the "size" difference between him and Newton or Chonan (both guys who started or ended at 170) or thinking he looked "huge" in the 175 RotR tournament.

I stand by my belief that at a catchweight it would look very similar to GSP vs Condit, physically.


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