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UnderGround Forums >> why is ufc so hell bent on forcing GSP/silva?


11/20/12 12:12 PM
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Orcus Knows MMA Better Than Goku
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not sure I understand it completely from a business perspective.

yes, it would likely result in the highest PPV in UFC history

yes, it would likely generate a tremendous amount of buzz and goodwill for the UFC

 

BUT, GSP is the biggest PPV draw the ufc has...in an organization where the landscape of the championship class has shifted dramtically from all-american pale faces to faces of a more diverse, multi-cultural and national kind, GSP in many ways is the UFC's last great white hope...

so why potentially kill the cash cow now just to eat his steak?

this is not to say that GSP cant win...he can, and I would give him decent odds to grind out a decision against anderson, but its also very possible that anderson utterly destroys george and hurts not only his body, but his mind forever...i am talking potentially irreparable damage where he would never be the same and would no longer be the dominating champion  of his division...we've seen it many times, you can only get your bell rung so many times...

this fight made a lot more sense a few years ago when both gsp and anderson cleaned out their respective divisions, but now there is a pack of young lions in both divisions that would make for exciting and competitive matches that are essentially being put on hold as the ufc tries to put this fight together....

all of this isnt to say i wouldnt want to watch this fight..of course i would...but I just dont see the business sense of the UFC trying to force this fight upon GSP since he clearly doesnt want it

11/20/12 12:16 PM
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KingGo
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Bc anderson is getting too old, and if it doesn't happen soon they will never see a single payday that big again. Gsp will always be a big draw no matter what, but that fight will make so much money it'll be fucking retarded not to make it happen, despite the risks you've already mentioned Phone Post
11/20/12 12:19 PM
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Stu Cazzo
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I don't give a fuck about a guy's record or win streak or how much money they draw.

I'm interested in seeing great matchups. 

This is one of them - deal with it

11/20/12 12:22 PM
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IIAces
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Because we have begged his ass to make the fight past 3 years before Jones was around. Now all of the sudden the a HUGE size difference. They should've fought before his injury and no one would've had a problem with it. Phone Post
11/20/12 12:23 PM
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IIAces
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IIAces - Because we have begged his ass to make the fight past 3 years before Jones was around. Now all of the sudden the a HUGE size difference. They should've fought before his injury and no one would've had a problem with it. Phone Post
there's a HUGE*** Phone Post
11/20/12 12:23 PM
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Chris27
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GSP moving up to fight a bigger man, the GOAT isnt gonna hurt his status as a PPV draw at WW. People said GSP was boring, fighting safe, after the Condit fight and if he took this fight vs Silva that is gone forever. Moving up to fight Silva isnt being safe. If anything it would make him even bigger because he took the challenge.

A loss to Silva wont hurt his status at all.

This is a huge fight, its a huge money fight for everyone, good for the UFC, the sport, GSP/Silva, you make it while you can.

If Hendricks or Weidman happened to beat Silva/GSP then what? You make it while you still can.

It amazes me people would rather see Weidman or Hendricks fight GSP and SIlva than seeing the two of them fight each other.

I dont know about anyone else but I'll be way more pumped up and excited to see the super fight than seeing GSP fight Hendricks or Silva fight Weidman. Also GSP/SIlva will do more buys than those two fights combined.
11/20/12 12:25 PM
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orcus
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Why would GSP's draw suffer if he loses to Anderson at a catchweight and then resumes crushing everyone at 170?

11/20/12 12:28 PM
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IIAces
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orcus -

Why would GSP's draw suffer if he loses to Anderson at a catchweight and then resumes crushing everyone at 170?

It wouldn't. All the GSP fans realize it may happen now and are afraid for him. If you asked the about the fight before knee injury they were all for it because it seemed it would never happen Phone Post
11/20/12 12:29 PM
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Chris27
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orcus - 

Why would GSP's draw suffer if he loses to Anderson at a catchweight and then resumes crushing everyone at 170?


It wouldnt, its just bullshit people against the fight are saying.

If anything it would probably increase his drawing power being in a monster fight like Silva, being the guy who moves up to challenge the bigger fighter, it would actually get him more props and if he goes back to WW as the champ his stock might increase.
11/20/12 12:32 PM
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Orcus Knows MMA Better Than Goku
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orcus - 

Why would GSP's draw suffer if he loses to Anderson at a catchweight and then resumes crushing everyone at 170?


i addressed that...its not a safe assumption to make that if anderson destroys gsp in rich franklin like fashion that gsp will ever be the same

11/20/12 12:47 PM
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Orcus Knows MMA Better Than Goku
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just for comparison purposes, lets take a look at the W/L records of fighters b4 and after they fought anderson in the UFC:

-leben: 15-1 b4 anderson, 7-6 after (and no longer has indestructable chin)

-franklin: 22-1 b4 anderson, 7-5 after (with 1 being the loss to anderson in the rematch)

-lutter: 9-3 b4, 1-2 after (retired)

-marquardt: 25-6-2 b4; 7-3 after (no longer in UFC)

-hendo: 22-6 b4; 7-1 after (with the held of steroids)

-irvin: 14-4 b4; 3-5-1 after (armwrestles for a living now)

-cote: 13-4 b4; 5-3 after (includes win over sakar where he was KOd)

-leites: 14-1 b4; 6-2 after (no longer in UFC)

-forrest: 16-5 b4; 3-1 after (wins against tito and ace)

-maia: 12-1 b4; 5-2 after (dropped to 170)

-Chael: 25-10-1 b4: 2-1 after

-Belfort: 19-8 b4; 2-1 after

-okami: 26-5 b4; 1-1 after

-bonnar: 15-7 b4; retired after

 

 

 

11/20/12 12:50 PM
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cdmontgo
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GSP and Anderson are both nearing the end of their career. The UFC doesn't need to continue to invest in them. They already built them up and enjoyed the ride.

It is a fun fight and a HUGE payday.

Jones is the one with a longer career ahead of him (assuming he wants it).
11/20/12 12:53 PM
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Orcus Knows MMA Better Than Goku
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cdmontgo - GSP and Anderson are both nearing the end of their career. The UFC doesn't need to continue to invest in them. They already built them up and enjoyed the ride.

It is a fun fight and a HUGE payday.

Jones is the one with a longer career ahead of him (assuming he wants it).

gsp is 6 years younger than anderson who is unanimously considered the greatest fighter on the plaent

 

i agree that anderson is nearing the end, but in these situations it makes sense for someone in his own division to beat him to "pass the torch"....if gsp beats him, so waht gsp is already huge...if jones beats him, so what jones is already huge...if someone like a weidman or bisbing beats him, that elevates them to superstar status and ensures additional drawing power down the line for the ufc...

11/20/12 12:56 PM
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A_Shovel
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cdmontgo - GSP and Anderson are both nearing the end of their career. The UFC doesn't need to continue to invest in them. They already built them up and enjoyed the ride.

It is a fun fight and a HUGE payday.

Jones is the one with a longer career ahead of him (assuming he wants it).

I think this is probably the correct answer.

The UFC has too much to risk by letting Jones lose a fight. This guy is supposed to be the next Anderson Silva, and he needs as much protection as possible in order to have that kind of long successful career.

In a way I think we should be happy that GSP and Silva is even on the table. Even though it's not the #1 superfight the fans want to it, it's the closest we've seen so far.
11/20/12 1:18 PM
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orcus
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Orcus Knows MMA Better Than Goku - 
orcus - 

Why would GSP's draw suffer if he loses to Anderson at a catchweight and then resumes crushing everyone at 170?


i addressed that...its not a safe assumption to make that if anderson destroys gsp in rich franklin like fashion that gsp will ever be the same


It's probably a safer assumption than that he would decline, since we can point to how GSP got better after the brutal loss to Serra. And Anderson's wins are typically not sustained, career-ruining beatings, they're one or two precise shots.

You're speculating that GSP would both lose violently, and that his career would permanently suffer as a result. Why not logically assume that he'd gain a HUGE amount of respect for stepping up, gain even more respect when he would probably do quite well for at least awhile -- certainly better than the vast majority of Anderson's opponents -- and would return to 170, win or lose, having more confidence in himself for going against the best fighter in the world who is also "so much bigger"?

11/20/12 1:27 PM
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bhealthy
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pharmeceutical companies could be leanin on them OP.
11/20/12 1:28 PM
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Orcus Knows MMA Better Than Goku
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Edited: 11/20/12 1:28 PM
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orcus - 
Orcus Knows MMA Better Than Goku - 
orcus - 

Why would GSP's draw suffer if he loses to Anderson at a catchweight and then resumes crushing everyone at 170?


i addressed that...its not a safe assumption to make that if anderson destroys gsp in rich franklin like fashion that gsp will ever be the same


It's probably a safer assumption than that he would decline, since we can point to how GSP got better after the brutal loss to Serra. And Anderson's wins are typically not sustained, career-ruining beatings, they're one or two precise shots.

You're speculating that GSP would both lose violently, and that his career would permanently suffer as a result. Why not logically assume that he'd gain a HUGE amount of respect for stepping up, gain even more respect when he would probably do quite well for at least awhile -- certainly better than the vast majority of Anderson's opponents -- and would return to 170, win or lose, having more confidence in himself for going against the best fighter in the world who is also "so much bigger"?

 

i wholeheartedly disagree that he got better after serra...he got so conservative to the point that even his home fans were booing him..and anderson is a slightly different animal than serra...just slightly... the damage he can dish on gsp, not to mention the potential embarrassment, could be catastrophic...and again, brain damage is cumulative...just because u may bounce back once, doesnt mean you will bounce back every time...

 

 

its true that gsp could gain more respect by stepping up...in my mind, however, the potential incremental increase to his popularily is relatively small to the risk of him losing in devastating fashion and possibly being damaged for the rest of his career...

 

think about it...if he doesnt fight anderson, what happens? hes still the biggest draw for the UFC, he still will make them millions upon millions....

11/20/12 1:34 PM
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KingOfFighters
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Lol do people think gsp would die in the cage? Wtf is this mentality coming from?

Gsp is a safety first fighter, at worst he'd get serra'd.

i think hed dominate the first 2 rounds, but after that his cardio would come into question because he wouldnt be outmuscling midgets and dehydrated middleweights Phone Post
11/20/12 1:36 PM
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orcus
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"i wholeheartedly disagree that he got better after serra...he got so conservative to the point that even his home fans were booing him.."

After Serra loss, he tooled and submitted Hughes in the second round. Then he beat the shit out of Serra and stopped him in the second round. Then he beat the everloving shit out of Fitch and threw everything but the kitchen sink at him, but Fitch is tough as nails and impossible to finish. Then he beat the everloving shit out of BJ and was the only person ever to make BJ quit. It's only his fights after that that were boring, and in the Alves one he had the excuse of the torn groin. He looked very aggressive in the Condit fight to me, and Carlos is impossible to finish.

" the damage he can dish on gsp, not to mention the potential embarrassment, could be catastrophic."

I disagree, I think taking 40 seconds of repeated heavy blows to the head from Serra is worse than a pinpoint shot or two from Anderson in terms of actual internal injury. I guess we'd need a doctor to clarify.

"think about it...if he doesnt fight anderson, what happens? hes still the biggest draw for the UFC, he still will make them millions upon millions...."

Sure, there's no real downside for GSP for not taking the fight (other than the fact that if he won it, he would indisputably be the Greatest of All Time and most likely no one else would ever be able to take that claim away in the future). But then he should just say so. Just say "I am not fighting him, but if he wants to come down and try to take my title from me, I'll be right here waiting for him." Simple and direct.

11/20/12 1:37 PM
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Orcus Knows MMA Better Than Goku
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KingOfFighters -  Lol do people think gsp would die in the cage? Wtf is this mentality coming from?

Gsp is a safety first fighter, at worst he'd get serra'd.

i think hed dominate the first 2 rounds, but after that his cardio would come into question because he wouldnt be outmuscling midgets and dehydrated middleweights Phone Post

serra stole gsp's soul...what do u think anderson can do...go look at my post above about BS (before silva) and AS (after silva)...he not only steals souls, he ruins lives...

 

sure, gsp is a safetfy fighter...but he got put in a pretty damn precarious position by carlos, who is basically anderson silva -100000X

11/20/12 1:40 PM
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Orcus Knows MMA Better Than Goku
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orcus - 

"i wholeheartedly disagree that he got better after serra...he got so conservative to the point that even his home fans were booing him.."

After Serra loss, he tooled and submitted Hughes in the second round. Then he beat the shit out of Serra and stopped him in the second round. Then he beat the everloving shit out of Fitch and threw everything but the kitchen sink at him, but Fitch is tough as nails and impossible to finish. Then he beat the everloving shit out of BJ and was the only person ever to make BJ quit. It's only his fights after that that were boring, and in the Alves one he had the excuse of the torn groin. He looked very aggressive in the Condit fight to me, and Carlos is impossible to finish.

" the damage he can dish on gsp, not to mention the potential embarrassment, could be catastrophic."

I disagree, I think taking 40 seconds of repeated heavy blows to the head from Serra is worse than a pinpoint shot or two from Anderson in terms of actual internal injury. I guess we'd need a doctor to clarify.

"think about it...if he doesnt fight anderson, what happens? hes still the biggest draw for the UFC, he still will make them millions upon millions...."

Sure, there's no real downside for GSP for not taking the fight (other than the fact that if he won it, he would indisputably be the Greatest of All Time and most likely no one else would ever be able to take that claim away in the future). But then he should just say so. Just say "I am not fighting him, but if he wants to come down and try to take my title from me, I'll be right here waiting for him." Simple and direct.


you are twisting things to think that gsp's style didnt change dramtically after the serra fight...everyone recognizes this, even gsp himself recognized it..yes, he finished people, but in terms of his style, he fought very very conservatively...against condit, i agree he was more aggressive

 

if u honestly think its more likely serra would do more damage to gsp than anderson, i dont know what to tell u...sure, anderson could snipe him with a couple shots, but its very possible for him to destroy him like he did to ace...

11/20/12 1:40 PM
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cdmontgo
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cdmontgo - GSP and Anderson are both nearing the end of their career. The UFC doesn't need to continue to invest in them. They already built them up and enjoyed the ride.

It is a fun fight and a HUGE payday.

Jones is the one with a longer career ahead of him (assuming he wants it).

gsp is 6 years younger than anderson who is unanimously considered the greatest fighter on the plaent

 

i agree that anderson is nearing the end, but in these situations it makes sense for someone in his own division to beat him to "pass the torch"....if gsp beats him, so waht gsp is already huge...if jones beats him, so what jones is already huge...if someone like a weidman or bisbing beats him, that elevates them to superstar status and ensures additional drawing power down the line for the ufc...


GSP drive to keep fight is going away. This has been brought up a number of times. Danaher even mentioned it in the hype show.

The man has been fighting professionally for over a decade. He has been consistently competing against top competition for seven years. He has been a champion for the better part of six years. He is generally regarded as the greatest welter weight on the planet and one of the best fighters regardless of weight division. He has built a net worth of around $14 million.

He doesn't need to fight anymore and he knows it. He ran out of things to prove. A super fight with a guy who is bigger than him and often more highly regarded than him is something to prove.
11/20/12 1:43 PM
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Orcus Knows MMA Better Than Goku
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cdmontgo - 
Orcus Knows MMA Better Than Goku - 
cdmontgo - GSP and Anderson are both nearing the end of their career. The UFC doesn't need to continue to invest in them. They already built them up and enjoyed the ride.

It is a fun fight and a HUGE payday.

Jones is the one with a longer career ahead of him (assuming he wants it).

gsp is 6 years younger than anderson who is unanimously considered the greatest fighter on the plaent

 

i agree that anderson is nearing the end, but in these situations it makes sense for someone in his own division to beat him to "pass the torch"....if gsp beats him, so waht gsp is already huge...if jones beats him, so what jones is already huge...if someone like a weidman or bisbing beats him, that elevates them to superstar status and ensures additional drawing power down the line for the ufc...


GSP drive to keep fight is going away. This has been brought up a number of times. Danaher even mentioned it in the hype show.

The man has been fighting professionally for over a decade. He has been consistently competing against top competition for seven years. He has been a champion for the better part of six years. He is generally regarded as the greatest welter weight on the planet and one of the best fighters regardless of weight division. He has built a net worth of around $14 million.

He doesn't need to fight anymore and he knows it. He ran out of things to prove. A super fight with a guy who is bigger than him and often more highly regarded than him is something to prove.

$14 M is a lot of money, but doesnt really last a lifetime or the lifetime for your kids unless you are conservative with your spending

11/20/12 1:44 PM
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Avenged MOFO
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Orcus Knows MMA Better Than Goku -

not sure I understand it completely from a business perspective.

yes, it would likely result in the highest PPV in UFC history

yes, it would likely generate a tremendous amount of buzz and goodwill for the UFC

 

BUT, GSP is the biggest PPV draw the ufc has...in an organization where the landscape of the championship class has shifted dramtically from all-american pale faces to faces of a more diverse, multi-cultural and national kind, GSP in many ways is the UFC's last great white hope...

so why potentially kill the cash cow now just to eat his steak?

this is not to say that GSP cant win...he can, and I would give him decent odds to grind out a decision against anderson, but its also very possible that anderson utterly destroys george and hurts not only his body, but his mind forever...i am talking potentially irreparable damage where he would never be the same and would no longer be the dominating champion  of his division...we've seen it many times, you can only get your bell rung so many times...

this fight made a lot more sense a few years ago when both gsp and anderson cleaned out their respective divisions, but now there is a pack of young lions in both divisions that would make for exciting and competitive matches that are essentially being put on hold as the ufc tries to put this fight together....

all of this isnt to say i wouldnt want to watch this fight..of course i would...but I just dont see the business sense of the UFC trying to force this fight upon GSP since he clearly doesnt want it

I agree 100%. On top if this they have 6 years of pay days from GSP. Silva is exiting anyways.

They could potentially cause a career changing brutal beat down of GSP. After Silva walks with boat loads of money and they loss GSP as well.

What's funny Dana says " this is a fight for p4p status" haha how the hell is that so when one fighter fights 1 - 2 weight classes above GSP.

Too many ppl are denying the fact that there is a huge weight discrepancy. Silva looks right at home with the lhw's. I watched a video of Bonnar say GSP is a lot smaller than Silva Phone Post
11/20/12 1:45 PM
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cdmontgo
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And there is a lot less risk in GSP/Silva than Silva/Jones for the UFC. If Silva wins they are left with the GOAT which is nearing the end of his career and an investment who just got beat by a smaller man who was nearing retirement.

GSP/Silva are two guys nearing retirement. Let them bang, bro!

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