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UnderGround Forums >> why is ufc so hell bent on forcing GSP/silva?


11/20/12 1:47 PM
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DamnSevern
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complain about superfights?

 

god I hate mma fans.

11/20/12 1:47 PM
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Elite Hunting
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If you even have to ask the question as to why this fight should happen then you don't know shit in the first place. Troll.
11/20/12 1:48 PM
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Chris27
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not sure I understand it completely from a business perspective.

yes, it would likely result in the highest PPV in UFC history

yes, it would likely generate a tremendous amount of buzz and goodwill for the UFC

 

BUT, GSP is the biggest PPV draw the ufc has...in an organization where the landscape of the championship class has shifted dramtically from all-american pale faces to faces of a more diverse, multi-cultural and national kind, GSP in many ways is the UFC's last great white hope...

so why potentially kill the cash cow now just to eat his steak?

this is not to say that GSP cant win...he can, and I would give him decent odds to grind out a decision against anderson, but its also very possible that anderson utterly destroys george and hurts not only his body, but his mind forever...i am talking potentially irreparable damage where he would never be the same and would no longer be the dominating champion  of his division...we've seen it many times, you can only get your bell rung so many times...

this fight made a lot more sense a few years ago when both gsp and anderson cleaned out their respective divisions, but now there is a pack of young lions in both divisions that would make for exciting and competitive matches that are essentially being put on hold as the ufc tries to put this fight together....

all of this isnt to say i wouldnt want to watch this fight..of course i would...but I just dont see the business sense of the UFC trying to force this fight upon GSP since he clearly doesnt want it

I agree 100%. On top if this they have 6 years of pay days from GSP. Silva is exiting anyways.

They could potentially cause a career changing brutal beat down of GSP. After Silva walks with boat loads of money and they loss GSP as well.

What's funny Dana says " this is a fight for p4p status" haha how the hell is that so when one fighter fights 1 - 2 weight classes above GSP.

Too many ppl are denying the fact that there is a huge weight discrepancy. Silva looks right at home with the lhw's. I watched a video of Bonnar say GSP is a lot smaller than Silva Phone Post

Someone doesnt understand the concept of P4P.
11/20/12 1:48 PM
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Orcus Knows MMA Better Than Goku
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DamnSevern - 

complain about superfights?

 

god I hate mma fans.


relax, noone is complaining about a superfight...we are having an adult discussion about the business sense of doing it...sorry to exclude u

11/20/12 1:48 PM
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Orcus Knows MMA Better Than Goku
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Elite Hunting - If you even have to ask the question as to why this fight should happen then you don't know shit in the first place. Troll.

youve convinced me through your thoroughly compelling argument..thx

11/20/12 1:51 PM
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cdmontgo
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cdmontgo - 
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cdmontgo - GSP and Anderson are both nearing the end of their career. The UFC doesn't need to continue to invest in them. They already built them up and enjoyed the ride.

It is a fun fight and a HUGE payday.

Jones is the one with a longer career ahead of him (assuming he wants it).

gsp is 6 years younger than anderson who is unanimously considered the greatest fighter on the plaent

 

i agree that anderson is nearing the end, but in these situations it makes sense for someone in his own division to beat him to "pass the torch"....if gsp beats him, so waht gsp is already huge...if jones beats him, so what jones is already huge...if someone like a weidman or bisbing beats him, that elevates them to superstar status and ensures additional drawing power down the line for the ufc...


GSP drive to keep fight is going away. This has been brought up a number of times. Danaher even mentioned it in the hype show.

The man has been fighting professionally for over a decade. He has been consistently competing against top competition for seven years. He has been a champion for the better part of six years. He is generally regarded as the greatest welter weight on the planet and one of the best fighters regardless of weight division. He has built a net worth of around $14 million.

He doesn't need to fight anymore and he knows it. He ran out of things to prove. A super fight with a guy who is bigger than him and often more highly regarded than him is something to prove.

$14 M is a lot of money, but doesnt really last a lifetime or the lifetime for your kids unless you are conservative with your spending


Um, you can invest it. You can certainly spend 60 years supporting a family on $14M.
11/20/12 1:52 PM
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GeneraI
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just for comparison purposes, lets take a look at the W/L records of fighters b4 and after they fought anderson in the UFC:

-leben: 15-1 b4 anderson, 7-6 after (and no longer has indestructable chin)

-franklin: 22-1 b4 anderson, 7-5 after (with 1 being the loss to anderson in the rematch)

-lutter: 9-3 b4, 1-2 after (retired)

-marquardt: 25-6-2 b4; 7-3 after (no longer in UFC)

-hendo: 22-6 b4; 7-1 after (with the held of steroids)

-irvin: 14-4 b4; 3-5-1 after (armwrestles for a living now)

-cote: 13-4 b4; 5-3 after (includes win over sakar where he was KOd)

-leites: 14-1 b4; 6-2 after (no longer in UFC)

-forrest: 16-5 b4; 3-1 after (wins against tito and ace)

-maia: 12-1 b4; 5-2 after (dropped to 170)

-Chael: 25-10-1 b4: 2-1 after

-Belfort: 19-8 b4; 2-1 after

-okami: 26-5 b4; 1-1 after

-bonnar: 15-7 b4; retired after

 

 

 

I always thought this for years. When anyone has fought (and lost against) AS, they are never the same fighter afterwards. Silva steals souls! Phone Post
11/20/12 1:54 PM
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Avenged MOFO
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Chris27 -
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Orcus Knows MMA Better Than Goku -

not sure I understand it completely from a business perspective.

yes, it would likely result in the highest PPV in UFC history

yes, it would likely generate a tremendous amount of buzz and goodwill for the UFC

 

BUT, GSP is the biggest PPV draw the ufc has...in an organization where the landscape of the championship class has shifted dramtically from all-american pale faces to faces of a more diverse, multi-cultural and national kind, GSP in many ways is the UFC's last great white hope...

so why potentially kill the cash cow now just to eat his steak?

this is not to say that GSP cant win...he can, and I would give him decent odds to grind out a decision against anderson, but its also very possible that anderson utterly destroys george and hurts not only his body, but his mind forever...i am talking potentially irreparable damage where he would never be the same and would no longer be the dominating champion  of his division...we've seen it many times, you can only get your bell rung so many times...

this fight made a lot more sense a few years ago when both gsp and anderson cleaned out their respective divisions, but now there is a pack of young lions in both divisions that would make for exciting and competitive matches that are essentially being put on hold as the ufc tries to put this fight together....

all of this isnt to say i wouldnt want to watch this fight..of course i would...but I just dont see the business sense of the UFC trying to force this fight upon GSP since he clearly doesnt want it

I agree 100%. On top if this they have 6 years of pay days from GSP. Silva is exiting anyways.

They could potentially cause a career changing brutal beat down of GSP. After Silva walks with boat loads of money and they loss GSP as well.

What's funny Dana says " this is a fight for p4p status" haha how the hell is that so when one fighter fights 1 - 2 weight classes above GSP.

Too many ppl are denying the fact that there is a huge weight discrepancy. Silva looks right at home with the lhw's. I watched a video of Bonnar say GSP is a lot smaller than Silva Phone Post

Someone doesnt understand the concept of P4P.
I think you made it pretty clear ego don't. If Silva brutally beats down the smaller GSP he is claimed p4p goat????

Based on that logic Silva should be fighting all p4p kings... Aldo, jones, dos santos etc....

P4p does not make you the best fighter at all weight classes it means for your clearly the best an if size was not a factor you could beat anyone Phone Post
11/20/12 1:55 PM
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Avenged MOFO
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cdmontgo - And there is a lot less risk in GSP/Silva than Silva/Jones for the UFC. If Silva wins they are left with the GOAT which is nearing the end of his career and an investment who just got beat by a smaller man who was nearing retirement.

GSP/Silva are two guys nearing retirement. Let them bang, bro!
GSP is only 31? I didn't know he was retiring? Phone Post
11/20/12 1:57 PM
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GeneraI
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Chris27 -
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not sure I understand it completely from a business perspective.

yes, it would likely result in the highest PPV in UFC history

yes, it would likely generate a tremendous amount of buzz and goodwill for the UFC

 

BUT, GSP is the biggest PPV draw the ufc has...in an organization where the landscape of the championship class has shifted dramtically from all-american pale faces to faces of a more diverse, multi-cultural and national kind, GSP in many ways is the UFC's last great white hope...

so why potentially kill the cash cow now just to eat his steak?

this is not to say that GSP cant win...he can, and I would give him decent odds to grind out a decision against anderson, but its also very possible that anderson utterly destroys george and hurts not only his body, but his mind forever...i am talking potentially irreparable damage where he would never be the same and would no longer be the dominating champion  of his division...we've seen it many times, you can only get your bell rung so many times...

this fight made a lot more sense a few years ago when both gsp and anderson cleaned out their respective divisions, but now there is a pack of young lions in both divisions that would make for exciting and competitive matches that are essentially being put on hold as the ufc tries to put this fight together....

all of this isnt to say i wouldnt want to watch this fight..of course i would...but I just dont see the business sense of the UFC trying to force this fight upon GSP since he clearly doesnt want it

I agree 100%. On top if this they have 6 years of pay days from GSP. Silva is exiting anyways.

They could potentially cause a career changing brutal beat down of GSP. After Silva walks with boat loads of money and they loss GSP as well.

What's funny Dana says " this is a fight for p4p status" haha how the hell is that so when one fighter fights 1 - 2 weight classes above GSP.

Too many ppl are denying the fact that there is a huge weight discrepancy. Silva looks right at home with the lhw's. I watched a video of Bonnar say GSP is a lot smaller than Silva Phone Post

Someone doesnt understand the concept of P4P.
I think you made it pretty clear ego don't. If Silva brutally beats down the smaller GSP he is claimed p4p goat????

Based on that logic Silva should be fighting all p4p kings... Aldo, jones, dos santos etc....

P4p does not make you the best fighter at all weight classes it means for your clearly the best an if size was not a factor you could beat anyone Phone Post
^ Truth Phone Post
11/20/12 1:57 PM
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Chris27
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DamnSevern - 

complain about superfights?

 

god I hate mma fans.


Its all mma fans do.

What dont they complain about?

Lower weight divs
female fighters
superfights
free fights on tv
more cards
have to pick up the remote and change the channel to see a whole card or maybe watch some fights online

Deep down it seems like half of them just want to the UFC to die and the sport to just fade away.
11/20/12 2:04 PM
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Orcus Knows MMA Better Than Goku
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cdmontgo - 
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cdmontgo - 
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cdmontgo - GSP and Anderson are both nearing the end of their career. The UFC doesn't need to continue to invest in them. They already built them up and enjoyed the ride.

It is a fun fight and a HUGE payday.

Jones is the one with a longer career ahead of him (assuming he wants it).

gsp is 6 years younger than anderson who is unanimously considered the greatest fighter on the plaent

 

i agree that anderson is nearing the end, but in these situations it makes sense for someone in his own division to beat him to "pass the torch"....if gsp beats him, so waht gsp is already huge...if jones beats him, so what jones is already huge...if someone like a weidman or bisbing beats him, that elevates them to superstar status and ensures additional drawing power down the line for the ufc...


GSP drive to keep fight is going away. This has been brought up a number of times. Danaher even mentioned it in the hype show.

The man has been fighting professionally for over a decade. He has been consistently competing against top competition for seven years. He has been a champion for the better part of six years. He is generally regarded as the greatest welter weight on the planet and one of the best fighters regardless of weight division. He has built a net worth of around $14 million.

He doesn't need to fight anymore and he knows it. He ran out of things to prove. A super fight with a guy who is bigger than him and often more highly regarded than him is something to prove.

$14 M is a lot of money, but doesnt really last a lifetime or the lifetime for your kids unless you are conservative with your spending


Um, you can invest it. You can certainly spend 60 years supporting a family on $14M.

sure, you can live comfortably, but the point is that it really isnt a TON of money for the rest of your life...fighting to pad his bank account is a huge deal and cant be simply waived away as unimportant by fans...

11/20/12 2:07 PM
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orcus
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"serra stole gsp's soul...what do u think anderson can do...go look at my post above about BS (before silva) and AS (after silva)...he not only steals souls, he ruins lives..."

 

Those kind of stat comparisons are ridiculous, of course guys have better records early when they are fighting in regional shows and KotC etc, or just not fighting the top dogs in the division.

Karo before Serra: 13-3

Karo after Cinderblock Serra dropped him: 8-6 and not in UFC

Chris Lytle before Serra: 53-17

Chris Lytle after going to war with Cinderblock Serra: 1-1 and out of the sport entirely

Matt Hughes before Serra: 43-7

Matt Hughes after getting dropped by Cinderblock Serra: 2-2 with both losses by KO; out of the sport

 
11/20/12 2:08 PM
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orcus
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"Too many ppl are denying the fact that there is a huge weight discrepancy."

 

It's getting so tiresome hearing this bullshit repeated endlessly. Fighting at 205, Anderson was just 14lb heavier than GSP was this weekend. In his last fight at 185, Anderson was just 10lb heavier than GSP was this weekend. And GSP was lighter for this fight than usual.
11/20/12 2:18 PM
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UGCTT_EnderTL
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orcus - 

"i wholeheartedly disagree that he got better after serra...he got so conservative to the point that even his home fans were booing him.."

After Serra loss, he tooled and submitted Hughes in the second round. Then he beat the shit out of Serra and stopped him in the second round. Then he beat the everloving shit out of Fitch and threw everything but the kitchen sink at him, but Fitch is tough as nails and impossible to finish. Then he beat the everloving shit out of BJ and was the only person ever to make BJ quit. It's only his fights after that that were boring, and in the Alves one he had the excuse of the torn groin. He looked very aggressive in the Condit fight to me, and Carlos is impossible to finish.

" the damage he can dish on gsp, not to mention the potential embarrassment, could be catastrophic."

I disagree, I think taking 40 seconds of repeated heavy blows to the head from Serra is worse than a pinpoint shot or two from Anderson in terms of actual internal injury. I guess we'd need a doctor to clarify.

"think about it...if he doesnt fight anderson, what happens? hes still the biggest draw for the UFC, he still will make them millions upon millions...."

Sure, there's no real downside for GSP for not taking the fight (other than the fact that if he won it, he would indisputably be the Greatest of All Time and most likely no one else would ever be able to take that claim away in the future). But then he should just say so. Just say "I am not fighting him, but if he wants to come down and try to take my title from me, I'll be right here waiting for him." Simple and direct.


you are twisting things to think that gsp's style didnt change dramtically after the serra fight...everyone recognizes this, even gsp himself recognized it..yes, he finished people, but in terms of his style, he fought very very conservatively...against condit, i agree he was more aggressive

 

if u honestly think its more likely serra would do more damage to gsp than anderson, i dont know what to tell u...sure, anderson could snipe him with a couple shots, but its very possible for him to destroy him like he did to ace...


His style changed from that one has gotten him in trouble multiple times, to a style that can consistently dominate the best fighters in the division over 5 rounds. I don't think that GSP got "worse" as a fighter after the Serra loss.. you can argue his style became less entertaining, but in reality that doesn't translate to the quality of fighter he is.

Apologies if I'm addressing something you weren't saying.

11/20/12 2:35 PM
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BaraoKix
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As fans, we should all want to see the best potential matchups...
11/20/12 2:42 PM
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JerodR
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I think they believe that Anderson would win. The over all view would be that Anderson would be the greatest, however on the flip side this is a guy that is capable of fighting at 205 but came down to a much smaller weight class. It would not really be a knock on GSP if Anderson won.

However the reason they don't want Jones/Silva is because Jones is a very new fighter despite all that he has done. Jones stands a VERY good chance of beating Silva which would damage Silva's image.
11/20/12 2:44 PM
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orcus
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"His style changed from that one has gotten him in trouble multiple times, to a style that can consistently dominate the best fighters in the division over 5 rounds. I don't think that GSP got "worse" as a fighter after the Serra loss.. you can argue his style became less entertaining, but in reality that doesn't translate to the quality of fighter he is."

Voted up for excellence.

But to sum up the business point of this superfight:

It's the biggest fight in MMA, it will make more money than any regular title defenses Anderson and Georges take combined. Anderson's time in this sport is very limited and GSP's could be ticking, so the fight MUST be made while both are still at the top. It's not rocket science. 

Worst case scenario is GSP gets wrecked and begins losing at 170. Something that is pure speculation, and can happen at 170 as well. Hendricks is a stronger wrestler than Anderson and arguably has more pure one-punch power, and is knocking guys out cold. He could do the same thing to GSP and then what? GSP still has his mental/physical issues Goku is speculating about, except now he has no title, his champion streak is ended, his mental issues are worse because it happened in his own division, and on top of all that, we never got a superfight. And now we have Hendricks as champ until he loses a fight or two later. Great business decision!

11/20/12 2:55 PM
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lordbreakdown
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the answer is obvious, but I personally have no interest in seeing it. I'd rather keep the division lines moving.
11/20/12 3:08 PM
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superCulo
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We as MMA fights deserve that fight. Phone Post
11/20/12 3:09 PM
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superCulo
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As MMA fans* lol Phone Post
11/20/12 3:27 PM
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BubblesNS
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orcus - 

Why would GSP's draw suffer if he loses to Anderson at a catchweight and then resumes crushing everyone at 170?


i addressed that...its not a safe assumption to make that if anderson destroys gsp in rich franklin like fashion that gsp will ever be the same

Ok but the point about him never being the same is pure speculation. The man has a strong mind based on what ive seen. Hes just more honest than most. Phone Post
11/20/12 3:43 PM
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Jaybrone
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GSP is an all time great and while the hard core fans don't think it will hurt his legacy and drawing power if he loses. It likely will with the casual fans the ones who turn out in huge numbers for the guy. The casual fan can't name many fighters but they know and support winners. Phone Post
11/20/12 3:47 PM
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orcus
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".its not a safe assumption to make that if anderson destroys gsp in rich franklin like fashion that gsp will ever be the same"

 

By the way, another counter to this: Before getting wrecked by Anderson, Franklin's biggest career wins were Evan Tanner and Ken Shamrock. After getting wrecked, he beat Okami, Liddell, Wanderlei x2, and many think he deserved the decision over Hendo. Not much of a career collapse if you ask me.

11/20/12 3:53 PM
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supersonic
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from a danger standpoint Anderson is at a 0 out of 10 v GSP while George would obviously be facing the most dangerous guy of his career

Make sure you have Zuffa back up the Brinks truck for you George
He would have some major balls for taking the figh

I said on another thread he should be asking for 10m minimum.

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