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BJJGround Forum >> Your thoughts on teachers rolling with students.


11/20/12 7:56 PM
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shen
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Edited: 11/20/12 8:10 PM
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I do NOT roll with students.

Do boxing coaches "spar" their students? Does Freddy Roach get in there and bang with Manny? Of course not, because he is a COACH.

When students ask you to "roll", what they are REALLY saying is, "Hey, roll with me so I can try and humiliate you in-front of all the other students (and, in my case, Bryan's hot mom who usually watches class)." THAT's what they want, not to "learn". BJJ isn't some hippy utopia where everyone just wants good vibes and to grow. --Hell no. WAKE UP!!!! Those little bastards want to embarrass you and make you look like a damn fool.

I have a standing offer with my students, if they REALLY want to roll with me, fine, but as I have assured them many times, "if we roll sh!t is gonna get REAL, real quick."

I dunno MAYBE it's different with adult classes, I just teach kids.
11/20/12 8:21 PM
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mrgoodarmbar
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got that right shen1 Shit gets real in a hurry:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7t8xwpW8gJQ
11/20/12 8:30 PM
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Jessy30
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So, I outweigh my instructor by fifty lbs (Im 200 lb brown belt)...but I roll with, and get smashed by, him reguarly. He is 145 lb black. I respect him WAY more than other instructors in the area who will fb about their injuries and how they can't roll with some students blahblahblah. My instructor just beat my ass the other day and he has a broken foot. I HATE when I hear about these guys, I HATE that they always have an excuse. even if you roll with them they have an excuse when you best them. (which is, of course why they won't roll with you to begin with). Phone Post
11/20/12 9:33 PM
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McLeod
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I have a fractured T-9 vertebrae right now, and as such, I don't roll at all. I also don't train, and can hardly show the fricken techniques I'm teaching if they're from my back.

Before I got sick/injured, I rolled probably one to two classes a week. I always would roll with every single person whos igned up once early on, to show them how far they've progressed when they roll a year later or something.
I rolled with my high blues, purples at least once a week to see how they'd be doing and give them pointers. We would flow roll about 50% of the time.
My other rolls would be just based on who I fet like I hadn't rolled with in a while (or occasionally who had to be brought down a notch on how hard they were taking it to other students).

As a general rule, noone asks higher belts to roll (above purple) because of the "Royce rule". lol. Royce was asked by a purple at the time if he would roll after coming for a seminar, and Royce said: "If you ask a BB in Brazil to roll, be prepared to be hurt." :)
So, they tend not to. They can ask me, and I say yes, but I roll 100%, with all subs legal. Where as I usually roll about 50% with students.
Just my opinion of course.
11/20/12 10:22 PM
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truehonor
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I come from a school culture in which the blackbelt instructor(s0 rolled with everyone and generally destroyed evryone for many years, until their longer time studenst would ocassionallt catch them - and I mean rare ocasion. I expect the BB to roll with everyone, regardless of the sparring outcomes. It is a heavy burden to carry friends, but that's what it is.
11/20/12 10:30 PM
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BenBJJ
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BenBJJ - He should roll!

Hell, I'm just a brown belt but have my own small academy, but I wish I could roll less! My elbow has been fucked for 2 months now (kids armbahing me) to the point that it hurts to change gear in the car or open a door! But dammit, it's too difficult to just sit and watch training!
My left elbow is the same. I have no idea how or when it gets better Phone Post

Rest I think. And NO ROLLING! I have no idea about that tho'!
11/20/12 10:39 PM
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rebelyell
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Sub
11/21/12 12:20 AM
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Skmiasma
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You should be rolling with everyone at your school, instructors included. It'll make you better. Phone Post
11/21/12 12:51 AM
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skkrocks
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I roll with everybody, unless I'm getting over an injury. There's one white belt in our gym that annoys the hell out of me so I've been refusing to roll with him for about a week, but I'm sure I'll want to beat him up again soon so I'll probably start rolling with him again. Bottom line, you should roll with new guys because their spastic tendencies, although dangerous at times, can expose holes in your game that a more seasoned student will not. Phone Post
11/21/12 1:18 AM
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Brian McLaughlin
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I do almost all my rolling in my advanced classes.  I have to play traffic cop and make sure no aggressive white belt does anything too crazy in my finadmental and intermediate classes.

Also, when many of my lower belts go with me craziness ensues. My upper blues, purples and browns are very controlled so that is who I train with.

I also continue to train outside my academy since I consider it important to continue being a student as well. If I had a hard day of training elsewhere I'll focus on coaching.

 

11/21/12 9:32 AM
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DeuceDroppin
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My gym has a ton of brown and black belts and everyone rolls with everyone. If an instructor is older, or really is injured, and has a lot of high level guys then I understand him not rolling as much. I'm pretty sure the situation that mmaguy is talking about though is where there is a student that pretty much smashes the other students and needs the instructor to roll in order to get good training. In that situation the instructor should absolutely roll with said student on a regular basis. Phone Post
11/21/12 10:36 AM
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Rival School
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shen -

I do NOT roll with students.

Do boxing coaches "spar" their students? Does Freddy Roach get in there and bang with Manny? Of course not, because he is a COACH.

When students ask you to "roll", what they are REALLY saying is, "Hey, roll with me so I can try and humiliate you in-front of all the other students (and, in my case, Bryan's hot mom who usually watches class)." THAT's what they want, not to "learn". BJJ isn't some hippy utopia where everyone just wants good vibes and to grow. --Hell no. WAKE UP!!!! Those little bastards want to embarrass you and make you look like a damn fool.

I have a standing offer with my students, if they REALLY want to roll with me, fine, but as I have assured them many times, "if we roll sh!t is gonna get REAL, real quick."

I dunno MAYBE it's different with adult classes, I just teach kids.
Troll? Right? Phone Post
11/21/12 11:03 AM
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Silhouette
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shen i love you (no homo)

unless the instructor is older or injured he should be rolling with his students on the regular
11/21/12 12:19 PM
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SBJJSean
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I'm a BB instructor @ Serra BJJ and I roll with everyone in my academy. I help my students get better and it allows me to assess how the student is doing. Additionally, my thinking is, if he/she can handle themselves against me, another white, blue, purple, should not be a problem.
 
 
There is a young and strong purple belt in my academy that gives me a hard time and on occasions he will beat me, when I fall asleep behind the wheel. I don't care if he beats me because it helps him and it helps me too. I like training with him because he is humble and is still willing to learn BJJ from me in order to expand his knowledge. I've always believed a mundial medalist purple belt can beat a BB if the BB is not careful.
 
 
For those BB who won't roll with their student, I think it comes down to an security thing. At one time they were probably amazing, now they are little older and they have not found peace in older age. When I say peace I mean, peace with themselves and accepting that the machine is slowing down.
 
For the most part, in my school it is not acceptable for a lower belt to ask another BB to train, but for me, I don't care if anyone asks. It does not hurt to ask... only answers are painful.
 

Great post vtfu.

I am sure it is hard to accept getting older and difficult to find peace with getting beat by younger more athletic purples. Fact is that no one will get better at dealing with situations like this by avoiding rolling though and I think, like you said, the best way to deal with it is head on and both the BB and the younger stronger purple benefit. Its just another stage of the journey if faced head on.

If an instructor avoids rolling with a student because he fears getting beaten then he isn't doing his job for that student and is allowing himself to be controlled by the situation rather than grasping the challenge. Injuries are a different story.

We all talk about checking your ego at the door. That shouldn't go out the window when you get your BB and start teaching.
11/21/12 12:19 PM
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JRockwell
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shen -

I do NOT roll with students.

Do boxing coaches "spar" their students? Does Freddy Roach get in there and bang with Manny? Of course not, because he is a COACH.

When students ask you to "roll", what they are REALLY saying is, "Hey, roll with me so I can try and humiliate you in-front of all the other students (and, in my case, Bryan's hot mom who usually watches class)." THAT's what they want, not to "learn". BJJ isn't some hippy utopia where everyone just wants good vibes and to grow. --Hell no. WAKE UP!!!! Those little bastards want to embarrass you and make you look like a damn fool.

I have a standing offer with my students, if they REALLY want to roll with me, fine, but as I have assured them many times, "if we roll sh!t is gonna get REAL, real quick."

I dunno MAYBE it's different with adult classes, I just teach kids.
Troll? Right? Phone Post
Shen once trolled Chuck Norris into shaving his beard off. Phone Post
11/21/12 12:35 PM
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deepu
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I roll with everyone but I do somewhat choose who I roll with. When guys are getting ready for tournaments, I roll more with them. When people avoid someone because they are too new, I roll with them as it's unfair on those guys.

Of course there's the guys that give me fits, but those are also the guys that help me get better. Do I roll with them all the time, no. When you're in class often enough, you need to rest your body too.
11/21/12 3:03 PM
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Rival School
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JRockwell -
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shen -

I do NOT roll with students.

Do boxing coaches "spar" their students? Does Freddy Roach get in there and bang with Manny? Of course not, because he is a COACH.

When students ask you to "roll", what they are REALLY saying is, "Hey, roll with me so I can try and humiliate you in-front of all the other students (and, in my case, Bryan's hot mom who usually watches class)." THAT's what they want, not to "learn". BJJ isn't some hippy utopia where everyone just wants good vibes and to grow. --Hell no. WAKE UP!!!! Those little bastards want to embarrass you and make you look like a damn fool.

I have a standing offer with my students, if they REALLY want to roll with me, fine, but as I have assured them many times, "if we roll sh!t is gonna get REAL, real quick."

I dunno MAYBE it's different with adult classes, I just teach kids.
Troll? Right? Phone Post
Shen once trolled Chuck Norris into shaving his beard off. Phone Post
Goddamn Phone Post
11/21/12 5:53 PM
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Baroquen Record
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JRockwell -
Rival School -
shen -

I do NOT roll with students.

Do boxing coaches "spar" their students? Does Freddy Roach get in there and bang with Manny? Of course not, because he is a COACH.

When students ask you to "roll", what they are REALLY saying is, "Hey, roll with me so I can try and humiliate you in-front of all the other students (and, in my case, Bryan's hot mom who usually watches class)." THAT's what they want, not to "learn". BJJ isn't some hippy utopia where everyone just wants good vibes and to grow. --Hell no. WAKE UP!!!! Those little bastards want to embarrass you and make you look like a damn fool.

I have a standing offer with my students, if they REALLY want to roll with me, fine, but as I have assured them many times, "if we roll sh!t is gonna get REAL, real quick."

I dunno MAYBE it's different with adult classes, I just teach kids.
Troll? Right? Phone Post
Shen once trolled Chuck Norris into shaving his beard off. Phone Post
Chuck Norris doesn't shave his beard off. The beard shaves chuck Norris off. Phone Post
11/21/12 6:06 PM
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Tilla
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I don't train BJJ, but I do train Judo, and my sensei and the other black belt instructors ALWAYS spar/roll with us.

It's great because they give you tips, build your confidence, don't take the piss with you even if you're a black or brown belt and are really helpful.

11/21/12 6:17 PM
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matt murdock
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I roll almost every day with my students. I'm 220lbs, so I stick mostly to the bigger guys, but at least once a week I make it a point to roll with the smaller/newer students. We do a lot of positional drills at my school, like guard passing with the winner staying down, so in the drills I get to encounter just about all the students.

Sometimes I get beat, and it's great.
11/21/12 11:25 PM
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PayItForward
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i like when i get caught by lower belts.

i got people started in this and helped them become beasts... it's like a proud parent feeling.
11/21/12 11:58 PM
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myates
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I have never been in a school where the instructor doesn't roll with his students. Minus injuries and such, there is absolutely no other valid reason they shouldn't, you are paying to improve and rolling with the best in the academy will do that.

Of course right now I train at a "club" that can have a class with over 40 blackbelts in it, you are simply rotating with blackbelt after blackbelt... When you are lucky enough to encounter someone who will not absolutely destroy you, it is like a gift from god :P.

I would never ask a higher belt to train though (i'm a purple), all these guys are from Brazil and yeah, it could be a bit hazardous to my health :P. I know the coaches who don't mind if I ask though, but still don't out of respect.
11/22/12 1:06 AM
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Gerbiljiujitsu
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I get between 45-60 7 minute rounds a week.  I try and spread that out over the intermediate and advanced student.

If it's your first class you will always roll with me first.  That way I can make sure you get paired appropriately.  

Basically I do the best job I can to make sure that training is not to easy for anyone in the academy.  Not saying that I crush people or make things miserable but I do believe that experiencing difficulties while rolling is a must, especially for people who want to compete.  

11/22/12 7:18 AM
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Poncey
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My instructor always makes a point of rolling with his students.

He will either pick the highest belt on the mat to ensure they have someone better than them to spar with, or if he's assessing someone before a promotion he'll roll with them.

He makes a point of rolling with all students regularly though.

It has been, by far, the biggest game changer for me.
11/22/12 10:50 AM
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mmaguy30
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So many great responses here... I just got to Cancun and my interwebs is spotty... I will weigh in later...

Thanks for the responses guys.

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