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BJJGround Forum >> Your thoughts on teachers rolling with students.


2/18/13 7:00 PM
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cawsie77
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Very lucky to have two BB instructors who regularly roll with me. One in particular. He rolls with everybody. Gives tips as much as possible. I've been lucky that I've been training with him since I started. Phone Post
2/18/13 7:18 PM
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Moke
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Edited: 02/18/13 7:19 PM
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On an overlapping note, I will mention what I've noticed...

I've seen BB's who would gladly roll with everyone constantly every day, from white to black, no problems.

But as they eventually start doing privates and that evolved to become a significant percentage of their income, they tended to stop rolling with the regular class students so much. That's generally when they would also not even teach regular classes as much and hand it off to other upper belts.

I think it's a psychological thing of where they're suddenly making all this money on privates and basically getting paid directly for rolling with someone, then they suddenly start to feel as though rolling with their regular students who "only" pay a monthly fee, is selling themselves short...or conversely, that the regular students don't deserve as much direct contact with them.

2/18/13 8:22 PM
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DeuceDroppin
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I train under Roberto "Cyborg" Abreu. He rolls with students on a regular basis and I'll go even further.....

He's recovering from knee surgery so he's still not training 100%. Recently we were doing wrestling drills, and when we got to the point of the actual take down drills, I let him know that I needed to sit out because of a couple of injuries. My main concern is getting taken down awkward because of my knee, as well as a bad achilles issue that I have. He literally told me to practice on him, that way I could still practice the take down. This is Cyborg fucking Abreu!haha

The moral of the story...If your instructor is too cool to roll, fuck 'em...Find a new one! Phone Post
2/18/13 10:22 PM
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gusto
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Edited: 02/18/13 10:22 PM
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double
2/18/13 10:22 PM
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gusto
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Moke - 

On an overlapping note, I will mention what I've noticed...

I've seen BB's who would gladly roll with everyone constantly every day, from white to black, no problems.

But as they eventually start doing privates and that evolved to become a significant percentage of their income, they tended to stop rolling with the regular class students so much. That's generally when they would also not even teach regular classes as much and hand it off to other upper belts.

I think it's a psychological thing of where they're suddenly making all this money on privates and basically getting paid directly for rolling with someone, then they suddenly start to feel as though rolling with their regular students who "only" pay a monthly fee, is selling themselves short...or conversely, that the regular students don't deserve as much direct contact with them.


they could also just be tired
2/20/13 9:24 AM
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CJJScout
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^^^ this. As you age, the mileage on your body tacks up much faster.
2/20/13 10:30 AM
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kying418
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303 - I have found it odd in BJJ that for some reason after someone achieves the rank of BB, or become a gym owner they suddenly stop actively rolling with their students/other blackbelts. The fact my instructor rolls with anyone who asks and spends a ton of time on the mat is one of the many things I respect about him.

I think most martial arts, boxing gyms, wrestling schools do not have the instructor training directly with the student (ie. doing live takedowns with your wrestling coach, sparring with your boxing trainer, etc).

BJJ is unique in that the instructors train with their students (for the most part).
2/20/13 10:35 AM
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kying418
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Edited: 02/20/13 10:36 AM
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I also think it should depend on the instructors age and weight.  When (if) I finally receive my black belt, I will probably be around 45 years old and weigh 150ish.

On the bright side, I will probably have a handful of killer purple belt students (I am 40 now and just started my own school).  By that time, I will be happy to have my students roll super hard with each other, while I am more picky with who I choose to train with.

I dont care what others think, I will have put in my time, and will be preserving my body so I can train for another 30+ years.  However, for the time being, as only a purple belt,  I don't think I have "earned" the right to coast, and train with all of my students, all of the time.

2/21/13 10:15 AM
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klif
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I am a 47 year old black belt and I have been teaching off and on since I was a blue belt. In the early days I rolled with everyone, and tried to smash them all. I guess I thought since I was only a blue belt, I had to "prove" I was worthy of teaching. As the years went by I started picking and choosing who I rolled with. Experienced white belts who are not quite good enough for blue, are the absolute worst ones to roll with. That's where you get spazzed out guys trying to impress you and you end up catching those accidental knees to the crotch, elbows and headbutts to the face, etc.

2012 kind of sucked for me because of personal problems, injuries, etc. Before I knew it the year was over, I had gained 20 pounds, and my best student (great purple belt) asked me after class one night "When was the last time you rolled?" I couldn't remember. I literally went almost a year with doing just about nothing but teaching and watching. So I just started back in January rolling with him. He can't catch me, but he gives me problems, and runs my gas tank out. I have another purple that is about 100 pounds heavier than me and he catches me a lot. After a month I am back in the swing and rolling with at least two or three people a class. I am VERY picky however and usually limit myself to advanced blues and above.

So anyway, my point is, when you are the instructor, it's really easy to fall in a rut. I am not a competitor and the BJJ black belt degrees/stripes are kind of weird. So sometimes you just don't have anything to motivate you. Stress, personal problems, injuries, and age can easily catch up with you.
2/21/13 1:45 PM
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kying418
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I just rolled with a newer student last night.

He blasted me full on with a knee to the nose as I was in half guard. I thought my nose was going to explode due to the velocity of the impact, or at the very least I would have a concussion.

I told Marcelo (Garcia- my teacher) about the incident. He replied, "Sorry Kon, but it will make you tougher!"

Thanks a lot Atama Forum- you guys suck! :)
2/21/13 2:18 PM
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judoinmotion
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Edited: 02/21/13 2:19 PM
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Rolling with students is tough for older guys of certain age in particular when they are heavier and stronger. I usually don't roll during normal classes. I occasionally roll with students on open mat days which I try to roll with everyone. Last open mat, I got a hit on my kidney while passing guard to side control. I pissed blood for two days. I've done judo for 40 years and BJJ on and off for 18, you do the math, my body is not holding up well. Never the less, I try to save my body to roll at Carlson Gracie Chicago twice a week, which I always have a blast but pay the price next day! Ha ha ha! My doctor thinks I am an idiot!
2/21/13 2:30 PM
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Triple_B
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Edited: 02/21/13 2:32 PM
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My coach rolled with me from day one, so I say yes. It's one thing to know how to escape a position or something, it's another to train with someone that mastered that position 10 years ago.

I would get submitted like 10 times in one round when I started out, but I never felt in danger or like I was being put in my place. I was always encouraged to pass or try and be offensive and was told that every time I lost a position or got submitted it happened because I was trying and that meant I was improving.

I don't understand how an able bodied instructor can promote you to an advanced rank (purple belt or higher) without feeling your game at the lower belts. You can't always understand how far someone has come by just watching them unless they are active competitors.
2/21/13 2:32 PM
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Furacao
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PrisonMattressPuncher - 

^^

Good post kilf.

I know one of Carlson Gracies high ranking instructors does zero rolling anymore due to injuries, etc. He still teaches,but no rolling.


No one should kid themselves about this sport. Unfortunately father time catches up - I think especially with Carlson guys aggressive competitive style.

I think that all instructors should roll with their students and I do roll with everyone at one point or another. However being selective with who you roll with at an older age to avoid injury isnt a bad thing. If you get hurt while rolling with a spaz, how much good are you to your students or family if you cant teach at all due to injury? This is a marathon, not a sprint and if you want to be in the sport long term, you need to check the ego and train smart.

On this note - I heard from my coach Rodrigo Medeiros (one of Carlson Gracie's top guys) that he rolled only 1 time his with Carlson. One time.

Carlson and the team still managed to make Rodrigo a top competitor and a legend in the sport so his coaching & knowledge ability says alot. IMO the knowledge comes from the instructor but the gameness on the mat comes from bleeding with the team.
2/21/13 2:45 PM
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judoinmotion
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Furacao - 
PrisonMattressPuncher - 

^^

Good post kilf.

I know one of Carlson Gracies high ranking instructors does zero rolling anymore due to injuries, etc. He still teaches,but no rolling.


No one should kid themselves about this sport. Unfortunately father time catches up - I think especially with Carlson guys aggressive competitive style.

I think that all instructors should roll with their students and I do roll with everyone at one point or another. However being selective with who you roll with at an older age to avoid injury isnt a bad thing. If you get hurt while rolling with a spaz, how much good are you to your students or family if you cant teach at all due to injury? This is a marathon, not a sprint and if you want to be in the sport long term, you need to check the ego and train smart.

On this note - I heard from my coach Rodrigo Medeiros (one of Carlson Gracie's top guys) that he rolled only 1 time his with Carlson. One time.

Carlson and the team still managed to make Rodrigo a top competitor and a legend in the sport so his coaching & knowledge ability says alot. IMO the knowledge comes from the instructor but the gameness on the mat comes from bleeding with the team.

Nice post!
2/21/13 6:45 PM
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kying418
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Does Pacman insist on sparring with Freddie Roach, and then get pissed if Freddie doesn't?
2/21/13 6:56 PM
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Wutang
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I only roll with people who pay me.
2/22/13 9:24 AM
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jakeklipp
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kying418 - Does Pacman insist on sparring with Freddie Roach, and then get pissed if Freddie doesn't?

boxing isnt jiu jitsu...  a lot of fair points being brought up.  i just love to roll.  easy to say ill roll with anyone because im 30 and my body is still holding up.  who knows how my philosophy will change when im 50.

2/22/13 10:08 AM
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CJJScout
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As a newly minted black belt, one of the privileges I have when I teach is choosing who I get to train with. Since I have another job, wife, 4 kids, injuries, etc. there are times I just don't feel like rolling with someone (big, small, whatever) that feels like they have to prove something to a black belt. There are other times when I'm feeling good that I want to train really hard and it doesn't matter. Life happens, and what I do on the mat (as passionate as I am about BJJ) is a very small part of my life.

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