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UnderGround Forums >> Coach: Condit did as much damage from bottom


11/22/12 11:46 AM
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Dirt Lover
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Why does he say "we" when talking about Condit, and "Georges" for Georges? I thought he was independent. Phone Post
11/22/12 11:56 AM
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FirstScratch
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Carlos lost. End of story. Searching for moral victories is pitiful. It's not as if Georges wasn't coming from a long layoff from a serious knee injury or anything. Carlos had a crack at a rusty GSP, and came up short. Phone Post
11/22/12 12:00 PM
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suess
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FirstScratch -  Carlos lost. End of story. Searching for moral victories is pitiful. It's not as if Georges wasn't coming from a long layoff from a serious knee injury or anything. Carlos had a crack at a rusty GSP, and came up short. Phone Post

it's an interview and he was answering questions.  

11/22/12 12:25 PM
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BubblesNS
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Winklejohn and Jackson are classless bullshitters. Admit the fight was a definitive loss. That being said Condit did great and was gracious in defeat. Phone Post
11/22/12 12:35 PM
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Nexuscrawlers
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SinCityHustler -

What mistake did GSP make vs Serra?  That was by far his toughest fight.  Lets say he hadn' tsurrendered, how do you thin kthat fight turns out?  No contest, Matt Serra was by far his toughest.  I thought Condit pushed him pretty good too but obviously no where as near as Serra who made GSP quit.  

Carlos did the same thing that matt serra did, only GSP hung in there instead of tapping to strikes to avoid more damage. And he gave GSP trouble for 5 whole rounds.

The Condit hate is strong in this thread, lol. Phone Post
11/22/12 1:19 PM
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Eisenberg
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He inflicted superficial skin damage with a ton of ineffective strikes. Not really something to brag about. While GSP was on top ``controlling`` he was also landing some heavy shots.
11/22/12 1:44 PM
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SinCityHustler
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Nexuscrawlers - 
SinCityHustler -

What mistake did GSP make vs Serra?  That was by far his toughest fight.  Lets say he hadn' tsurrendered, how do you thin kthat fight turns out?  No contest, Matt Serra was by far his toughest.  I thought Condit pushed him pretty good too but obviously no where as near as Serra who made GSP quit.  

Carlos did the same thing that matt serra did, only GSP hung in there instead of tapping to strikes to avoid more damage. And he gave GSP trouble for 5 whole rounds.

The Condit hate is strong in this thread, lol. Phone Post

Not from me it's not.  Must someone hate Condit in order to find Serra's effort more difficult for GSP to deal with?  Of course not, children behave that way and adults generally have the ability to put bias aside.  

Condit IMO was from from doing the same thing.  Sure he hurt him and knocked him down, but he was not able to hold him in bad position like Serra did.  

11/22/12 1:44 PM
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BubblesNS
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Nexuscrawlers -
SinCityHustler -

What mistake did GSP make vs Serra?  That was by far his toughest fight.  Lets say he hadn' tsurrendered, how do you thin kthat fight turns out?  No contest, Matt Serra was by far his toughest.  I thought Condit pushed him pretty good too but obviously no where as near as Serra who made GSP quit.  

Carlos did the same thing that matt serra did, only GSP hung in there instead of tapping to strikes to avoid more damage. And he gave GSP trouble for 5 whole rounds.

The Condit hate is strong in this thread, lol. Phone Post
I think the Winklejohn hate is greater than the Condit hate. I'm definitely a bigger Condit fan now than before his fight with GSP. Phone Post
11/22/12 2:52 PM
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Attila
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So basically he's saying Conduit should have won the decision. Pure retardation.
11/22/12 2:59 PM
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Nexuscrawlers
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SinCityHustler -
Nexuscrawlers - 
SinCityHustler -

What mistake did GSP make vs Serra?  That was by far his toughest fight.  Lets say he hadn' tsurrendered, how do you thin kthat fight turns out?  No contest, Matt Serra was by far his toughest.  I thought Condit pushed him pretty good too but obviously no where as near as Serra who made GSP quit.  

Carlos did the same thing that matt serra did, only GSP hung in there instead of tapping to strikes to avoid more damage. And he gave GSP trouble for 5 whole rounds.

The Condit hate is strong in this thread, lol. Phone Post

Not from me it's not.  Must someone hate Condit in order to find Serra's effort more difficult for GSP to deal with?  Of course not, children behave that way and adults generally have the ability to put bias aside.  

Condit IMO was from from doing the same thing.  Sure he hurt him and knocked him down, but he was not able to hold him in bad position like Serra did.  

I meant other more than u with the hate thing. But regardless, I think condit was on top tryi.g to finish longer than werra was, gsp just stuck in there longer instead of tapping. GSP even said condit was his toughest fight. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. I just don't see how the short serra fight was a harder fight than the condit one. Sure GSP tapped to strikes, but he wasn't defending subs and getting punched and elbowed in the face for 5 rounds either. Phone Post
11/22/12 3:02 PM
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show no mercy
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Evil nerd Phone Post
11/22/12 3:02 PM
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32Hunter
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stonepony - Yeah, Carlos did extremely well. I'm sure Georges would be the first to admit that. He did a lot better than Nick would.
Alright troll, Why dont wé wait Until Diaz fights gsp and see what happens. Phone Post
11/22/12 3:03 PM
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crazyea
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Nexuscrawlers - 
SinCityHustler -

What mistake did GSP make vs Serra?  That was by far his toughest fight.  Lets say he hadn' tsurrendered, how do you thin kthat fight turns out?  No contest, Matt Serra was by far his toughest.  I thought Condit pushed him pretty good too but obviously no where as near as Serra who made GSP quit.  

Carlos did the same thing that matt serra did, only GSP hung in there instead of tapping to strikes to avoid more damage. And he gave GSP trouble for 5 whole rounds.

The Condit hate is strong in this thread, lol. Phone Post

Yes, he was rocked. But he was very good at recovering. He put he feet on Carlos hips and pushed him away. I think this is one of the main reasons he wasnt finished due to strikes. Carlos wasnt able to land clean at that point.

11/22/12 3:06 PM
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Darth Ryase
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I think Condit did do a lot of damage from the bottom, mostly in the later rounds. GSP ate a lot of elbows from guard.

11/22/12 3:24 PM
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Rickson's Aura
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I got nothing against Condit, but Winklejohn is a moron. GSP has Fedor-like skin. Just because he cuts easier doesn't mean Condit should have won which is what Winklejohn is trying to say. Condit also got hit with forearms/elbows that didn't mark up his face. Other than that one kick, GSP beat him on the feet as well.
11/22/12 3:52 PM
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Wasa-B
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"Mike Winkeljohn: Well you know what? I was definitely impressed with his warrior spirit but I look back at the fight and I know we were losing the fight because Georges was on top, but honestly, look at Georges' face after. Really, we probably did as much damage if not more from the bottom as Georges did from the top. He was on top controlling and imposing his will. He got the takedown points. In the stand-up, of course, we hurt him more. There's no doubt Carlos was a great warrior and he was in the game.

I'll tell you what. If we would have had a round or more of that, that would have taken its toll on Georges because we weren't going anywhere."


Most of you need to take the Winkeljohn hate glasses off and watch the fight again. This is coming from a fan of both but someone who was still ultimately going for GSP and I agree generally with what he is saying above.

Arent we complaining all the time about the guy on the bottom automatically losing decisions/rounds/etc in the eyes of the judges by virtue of being on his back?

WJ acknowledges the points GSP should have gotten for the tds and also the fact that "He was on top controlling and imposing his will." But I agree that Condit probably did as much damage to GSP with his reverse GNP as GSP did with his GNP. GSP neither had a huge volume of the GNP or huge quality shots either. Yes, he had some good elbows though just because they cut does not mean they hurt (were solid connecting blows). Condit was actually probably more active with his GNP than GSP and thus probably had more volume in that dept.

Condit also had a sweep though GSP reversed back. Condit also went for subs though nothing of the "catch" type or nothing that locked but he was working. GSP passed to half guard all night but was not able to progress further.

All in all, like ive been saying it both a technical battle and dog fight on the ground. It was just a great battle period on the ground between the 2.

As far as WJ saying Condit hurting GSP more in the standup, that could also easily be true as GSP scored in the standup but did not connect with a single really damaging blow iirc. Now, I think GSP won and I was also rooting for GSP. But most of you cannot separate your Winkeljohn hate from his statements here. I dont think he's said anything controversial. Yall just dont like him.
11/22/12 3:56 PM
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Wasa-B
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Edited: 11/22/12 3:56 PM
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Porkchop - Too bad this isnt the ultimate damage causing championships. Also, if damage is the most important thing, how much does blood count for? Carlos was a bloody mess from the last minute of the first round till the end of the fight.

Carlos fought a great fight but Georges is undoubtedly the better fighter.

Dont think WJ once said Carlos was the better fighter and should have taken the decision.

He also did not say damage is the only factor. But as we know damage is a major factor. Actual damage should be weighed higher than superficial damage which is often what a cut and blood is. Im not saying Condit wasnt "hurt" at all by that elbow that caused the cut but he sure wasnt stunned or really hurt by it imo.

Asking "how much blood counts for in itself" is also the wrong view to take. Blood is superficial. In itself, it doesnt mean a whole lot. Cuts can be caused from strikes that do not actually hurt the fighters at all.

WJ also acknowledged the tds and top control and imposing GSP's will on the ground.
11/22/12 3:56 PM
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FingerorMoon
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He's not saying Condit, should have won. He is just saying that he did really well.

And he's right.

Fight made me a fan of Carlos, even though he lost.
11/22/12 4:04 PM
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Wasa-B
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Rickson's Aura - I got nothing against Condit, but Winklejohn is a moron. GSP has Fedor-like skin. Just because he cuts easier doesn't mean Condit should have won which is what Winklejohn is trying to say. Condit also got hit with forearms/elbows that didn't mark up his face. Other than that one kick, GSP beat him on the feet as well.

I think your interpretation could also be called moronic as well for thinking that's what Winkeljohn was trying to say.

Its true that GSP marks up pretty easy but its also true that Condit was hitting GSP's head all night from his guard. WJ acknowledged GSP's tds, top control, etc. In terms of Condit doing more damage standing, i would agree. I wouldnt say Carlos won the overall standup battle but to say he did more damage is not incorrect imo.

What i got out of this is that WJ thinks Condit did as much damage from the bottom as GSP did on top. I dont think thats incorrect. GSP did not get a whole lot of quality or quantity of GNP on the ground. I think GSP won but i dont disagree necessarily that Condit did as much damage on the ground.
11/22/12 4:06 PM
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Nick0tramp0diaz
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stonepony - Yeah, Carlos did extremely well. I'm sure Georges would be the first to admit that. He did a lot better than Nick would.
Yes totally agree a lot lot lot better Phone Post
11/22/12 4:07 PM
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Wasa-B
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Sprawl'n'Stall - Carlos didn't do much damage besides that kick. He got beat. BUT he was always in it, always VERY dangerous with his sub game. He showed heart and amazing skill from the bottom to both limit the damage he took and threaten with sub attempts. But inflict damage? Heu, nope. Not much.




Not sure what fight you were watching or perhaps proof that people watch fights but miss the smaller or minor things that were going on.

Condit was hitting GSP's head all night from his guard. Nothing that would have KOed GSP but it was a large volume and imo that accumulated and bothered GSP and def kept his attention and also kept him from getting into a more dominant riddum in Condit's guard.

GSP does cut easy but I saw more than one area of GSP's face swollen up.
11/22/12 4:13 PM
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Wasa-B
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I think some of you who think Condit did zero damage from his back or that it was all "superficial" should ask GSP how he felt there.

In my eyes, I saw that Condit's reverse GNP or GNP from his guard was at least getting GSP's attention enough to make him defend it and therefore be on defense and not on offensive completely when he was in his guard. He was reacting to Condit's output quite a bit from not only Condit's reverse GNP but also Condit's angling for sweeps and subs.

I hate the throw the "do you guys even trane?" thing out there but its one thing to be in someone's guard and try to pass and stuff, its another thing when someone like Condit his hitting your head all night while trying to pass, etc. Yes, GSP did pass (to half guard many times) but I still saw GSP reacting to Condit for good parts as well.

Some of you are not giving Carlos enough credit there, just dont like Winkeljohn and if so, really missing some of the "finer" points of the game (catch the Gracie Breakdown for a good look at both what GSP and Condit were doing). I'll bet GSP would be the first to say he did not have an easy time being in Condit's guard. He was in a dog fight the entire time he was in it imo.
11/22/12 4:15 PM
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Wasa-B
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Attila - So basically he's saying Conduit should have won the decision. Pure retardation.

No, basically, he's not.

Perhaps its more of pure retarded interpretation?
11/22/12 4:37 PM
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Porkchop
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Wasa-B - 
Porkchop - Too bad this isnt the ultimate damage causing championships. Also, if damage is the most important thing, how much does blood count for? Carlos was a bloody mess from the last minute of the first round till the end of the fight.

Carlos fought a great fight but Georges is undoubtedly the better fighter.

Dont think WJ once said Carlos was the better fighter and should have taken the decision.

He also did not say damage is the only factor. But as we know damage is a major factor. Actual damage should be weighed higher than superficial damage which is often what a cut and blood is. Im not saying Condit wasnt "hurt" at all by that elbow that caused the cut but he sure wasnt stunned or really hurt by it imo.

Asking "how much blood counts for in itself" is also the wrong view to take. Blood is superficial. In itself, it doesnt mean a whole lot. Cuts can be caused from strikes that do not actually hurt the fighters at all.

WJ also acknowledged the tds and top control and imposing GSP's will on the ground.

Damage is not a major factor to who wins the fight. The only thing that matters is how the fighters fight.

My point, which you must have missed, is that all damage is superficial unless it effects how the fighters fight.

If damage was the most important thing, no one would attack the body because that damage isn't as obvious as facial damage.

My other point is that WJ seems to be stating a case for Carlos winning the fight in his eyes. The better man won.
11/22/12 4:53 PM
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UGSlapshot
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Condit is not as dangerous as Diaz is on the ground, GSP may decision Diaz but trying to say Condit is more of a threat off his back is because of his performance doesn't really wash IMO. Phone Post

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