UnderGround Forums
 

UnderGround Forums >> How viable is the 50/50 position in MMA?


11/25/12 6:49 PM
Ignore | Vote Down | Vote Up
Underground Blog
1125 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/3/08
Posts: 10637
MixedMartialArts.com
 

Can an esoteric leg entanglement that's growing in the sport of jiu-jitsu and beginning to rear its head in MMA be a viable position to win in a fight? Ryan Hall - ADCC bronze medalist, black belt and master of the 50/50 - weighs in on its future.

If there is a constant in MMA, it's that the techniques popularized and used to win are in constant evolution. While many high-level grapplers have said much of sport jiu-jitsu is useless for MMA, a curious adaptation could be happening.

The 50/50 position, a leg entanglement popularized and used in more recent years in sport jiu-jitsu, has been on display in two key MMA bouts. The first was between Rousimar Palhares and Alan Belcher at UFC on Fox 3. The second was a week ago at Bellator 81 between Marcin Held and Rich Clementi. Leg locks have historically been successful in MMA, but also carry significant risk in their application. 50/50 offers something new: less risk of punishment, but demands a higher degree of positional and leg attack acumen. It also requires a commitment to the position.

While it's too early to suggest this is the new frontier in leg attacks in MMA, the appearances of it are intriguing. They also force one to ask the very basic question: can 50/50 be a path for victory in MMA? Are these one-offs of the 50/50 or the start of something larger? What challenges are presented in the 50/50 in MMA versus jiu-jitsu?

read entire article...


11/25/12 6:52 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Cojendo
49 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/27/08
Posts: 552
Pride rules would negate this argument. Phone Post
11/25/12 6:59 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Bull_in_chinashop
97 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 11/25/12 7:01 PM
Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 39508

10 Years ago I would have laughed if you asked if the x guard would be used in MMA. (I use it all the time now.)

5 years ago I would have laughed if you said the 50/50 guard would be used (I use it all the time now).

Last year I would have laughed if you said the berimbolo would ever be seen (I've now got fighters pulling it off against other pro's and advanced grapplers.)

 

Where the individual combat sports go.. MMA's techniques will follow.  They are the explorers, we are the integrators.

11/25/12 7:07 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Enemies
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 5/10/10
Posts: 1843
Obvious answer is yes. Anything that you see successful in a sub-element of MMA will be successfully used in MMA as well at some point or another. Maybe even common.
11/25/12 7:10 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Cojendo
49 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/27/08
Posts: 553
100% agree with the evolution of MMA with grappling. I use it when grappling but I wonder if it would still be effective if you could kick your foot straight forward.

I know it's a moot point at the moment in the states but I wonder if it would still be effective where head strikes on the ground are permitted. Phone Post
11/25/12 7:24 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Synado
41 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/22/05
Posts: 8417
Great article. Can't wait for Ryan's fight.
11/25/12 7:32 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
GladiatorGannon
278 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 9/1/04
Posts: 20157
As well as the idea that if I break someone's leg with a heel hook, I'm a jerk. But if I break their arm with an arm lock, they should've tapped. The leg doesn't really work that differently than the arm.


I think this is a bullshit argument. Armbars ARE different from heelhooks, heelhooks DO have greater injury risks.
11/25/12 7:33 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
pbody
13 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 5/11/08
Posts: 287
In addition to the examples listed in the article, Ed Herman submitted Kyle Noke with a heel hook from 50/50 at UFC Live 5, and Sergio Moraes submitted someone from 50/50 during his fight to get into the house on the TUF Brazil.
11/25/12 7:34 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
shiki31
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 4/23/09
Posts: 100
This is a great point. This could be a way for bjj mma fighters to get back at wrestlers for the lay n pray. This is bjj's version of the lay n pray. Minimal damage from punches variety of takedowns sweeps and subs. Mendes brothers were in hilo over the holidays to train with bj. Maybe he'll buss out some 50/50 against macdonald. Phone Post
11/25/12 7:35 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Lahzerous
268 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/9/11
Posts: 4276
GladiatorGannon - 
As well as the idea that if I break someone's leg with a heel hook, I'm a jerk. But if I break their arm with an arm lock, they should've tapped. The leg doesn't really work that differently than the arm.


I think this is a bullshit argument. Armbars ARE different from heelhooks, heelhooks DO have greater injury risks.


11/25/12 7:45 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
DiscipleDojo
620 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 4/1/11
Posts: 2095
Disciple Dojo, L3C, Founder
Lahzerous - 
GladiatorGannon - 
As well as the idea that if I break someone's leg with a heel hook, I'm a jerk. But if I break their arm with an arm lock, they should've tapped. The leg doesn't really work that differently than the arm.


I think this is a bullshit argument. Armbars ARE different from heelhooks, heelhooks DO have greater injury risks.



I don't often type "LOL"...

 

But when I do, it's because I literally did.

11/25/12 7:50 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
LiverpoolFC
59 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/27/09
Posts: 1824
Paul Harris in 3, 2.. Phone Post
11/25/12 7:51 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
TheBulgarianAssassin
209 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 6/29/10
Posts: 2103
I won my ammy fight via leg lock from the 50/50 so I would say it is extremely effective if you know the position and your opponent doesn't.
11/25/12 8:10 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
SamboSlim187
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/29/10
Posts: 623
I'd say about 50% viable. Phone Post
11/25/12 8:15 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Immaculata
71 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/14/03
Posts: 21326
It's very viable if you can be effective from the position.
11/25/12 8:17 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
GSP'eedInMyMouth
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/30/03
Posts: 15023
50/50 will be the end of exciting mma.
11/25/12 9:07 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
defendbrooklyn
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 4/9/12
Posts: 87
50/50 works great till u get punched in the friggen face commiting 2 hands to a leg lock Phone Post
11/25/12 9:09 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
PR
54 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 39831
Immaculata - It's very viable if you can be effective from the position.

Wow, a mindblowing observation.
11/25/12 9:31 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
deepu
22 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 15102
Bull_in_chinashop - 

10 Years ago I would have laughed if you asked if the x guard would be used in MMA. (I use it all the time now.)

5 years ago I would have laughed if you said the 50/50 guard would be used (I use it all the time now).

Last year I would have laughed if you said the berimbolo would ever be seen (I've now got fighters pulling it off against other pro's and advanced grapplers.)

 

Where the individual combat sports go.. MMA's techniques will follow.  They are the explorers, we are the integrators.


Awesome.
11/25/12 9:34 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
the geek
118 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/2/07
Posts: 4926
DiscipleDojo - 
Lahzerous - 
GladiatorGannon - 
As well as the idea that if I break someone's leg with a heel hook, I'm a jerk. But if I break their arm with an arm lock, they should've tapped. The leg doesn't really work that differently than the arm.


I think this is a bullshit argument. Armbars ARE different from heelhooks, heelhooks DO have greater injury risks.



I don't often type "LOL"...

 

But when I do, it's because I literally did.


11/25/12 9:49 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Immaculata
71 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/14/03
Posts: 21328
PR - 
Immaculata - It's very viable if you can be effective from the position.

Wow, a mindblowing observation.

What did you add?
11/25/12 9:55 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Tomato Can
117 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 11/25/12 9:54 PM
Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 44416
If it's used to set up a heel hook, I don't see why not. The only problem with it in BJJ competition is that it's used as a brutal match-killing stalling technique when the rules prohibit heel hooks.
11/25/12 10:22 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
shiki31
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 4/23/09
Posts: 101
defendbrooklyn - 50/50 works great till u get punched in the friggen face commiting 2 hands to a leg lock Phone Post
If you know the position well, it's easier to keep the opponent away from your face compared to other guard positions. Knowing this position will frustrate top players like wrestlers and other ground and pound fighters. Phone Post
11/25/12 10:31 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
liquidrob
115 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 9/9/02
Posts: 8579
The old pancrase guys were the original 50/50 players, it has always been in MMA
11/25/12 10:34 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
hustlewestbrook
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/5/12
Posts: 806
I like Dave Herman's 50/50 defense Phone Post

Reply Post

You must log in to post a reply. Click here to login.