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UnderGround Forums >> How Dan McGuane got banned from MMA


12/3/12 6:17 AM
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flicken
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AssAssassin -
kwnel2178 - I have mixed feelings about this story, certainly I can empathise with the family of the victim, but at the same time I believe in redemption. I the man has served his sentence and seems remorseful, then maybe he should be given a chance.
Boxing has been way more forgiven than MMA when it comes to criminals, Micheal Bennett, Ricky Womack, and Cliford Ettiene were all convicted of armed-robbery. Tony Ayala was convicted of rape on an underage girl, and then on ESPN he made a statment bragging about how he went to prison for rape and how he didn't need protective custody.

Now lets hope that Bellator doesn't sign Rasul Mirzayev, who did the same exact thing and has shown no remorse.

Redemption? Sorry but if you murder some one, and serve your prison sentence, you still leave prison a murderer. You will always be a murderer. The death of your victim is permanent, and so is your status as a murderer, and so should be the shame. You aren't washed clean by a prison sentence. This isn't a "trade" of your time in exchange for the life of another person.
Exactly. Where is his victims second chance at life? Phone Post
12/3/12 6:35 AM
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Indivia
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Wu Massacre - maybe in florida i think


the way 35.15-1a is interpreted is basically if you get in someones face and say 'f you pussy' or spit on them you have already committed assault by inciting them with words intended to provoke a physical conflict and therefor the second party is justified in using self defense


Sec. 35.15 Justification; use of physical force in defense of a person.
1. A person may, subject to the provisions of subdivision two, use physical force upon another person when and to the extent he reasonably believes such to be necessary to defend himself or a third person from what he reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of unlawful physical force by such other person, unless:
(a) The latter`s conduct was provoked by the actor himself with intent to cause physical injury to another person; or
(b) The actor was the initial aggressor; except that in such case his use of physical force is nevertheless justifiable if he has withdrawn from the encounter and effectively communicated such withdrawal to such other person but the latter persists in continuing the incident by the use or threatened imminent use of unlawful physical force; or
(c) The physical force involved is the product of a combat
by agreement not specifically authorized by law.
2. A person may not use deadly physical force upon another person under circumstances specified in subdivision one unless:
(a) He reasonably believes that such other person is using or about to use deadly physical force. Even in such case, however, the actor may not use deadly physical force if he knows that he can with complete safety as to himself and others avoid the necessity of so doing by retreating; except that he is under no duty to retreat if he is:
(i) in his dwelling and not the initial aggressor; or
(ii) a police officer or peace officer or a person assisting a police officer or a peace officer at the latter`s direction, acting pursuant to section 35.30; or
(b) He reasonably believes that such other person is committing or attempting to commit a kidnapping, forcible rape, forcible sodomy or robbery; or
(c) He reasonably believes that such other person is committing or attempting to commit a burglary, and the circumstances are such that the use of deadly physical force is authorized by subdivision three of section 35.20.

It's no wonder you are studying, and not practicing. Derp. 

12/3/12 6:39 AM
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Synado
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Split feelings about the whole situation. I can understand Bellators decision though.
12/3/12 6:42 AM
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Indivia
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alkysmurf -  I hate it when society is so ridiculous, a judge and jury trial decided this man was guilty of a crime and he served what in their eyes weighed with evidence to be a fair sentence. He should be allowed to do whatever the fuck he wants.

Yet you guys want to take this guy who has nothing to loose anymore, and deny him the ability to do what he loves and puts food on his table.

Yeah maybe he'll do the right thing and move beyond easy/fast/ illegal means to make a living, but something like 85% of guys don't. And those guys are the fucking scary ones because now in their minds they've been forced into a criminal lifestyle, and the resent you for it. Phone Post

As consumers, we have the right to decide what we want to watch, and what we don't want to watch. The market decided that it didn't want to watch somebody who murdered another person fight for money on TV. 

Stop acting like he is still in prison. He isn't. He is free to put food on his table. He is free to get whatever job he would like to, as long is it isn't on our TV. Is it really that hard to find work that isn't fighting? How many people in this world are professional fighters, and actually able to support themselves on that income? Not many. 

Unless you are saying that the only way he can make money is violence. 

12/3/12 6:46 AM
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Kostakio
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In. Phone Post
12/3/12 8:09 AM
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LFTM
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Chris27 - 
Wu Massacre - ok and he isnt guilty of any of those 3 things, if he was i would completely agree, im actually a rare mix of extremely separated beliefs and think anyone guilty of those 3 crimes should receive a painful unpleasant death penalty unless there is a damn good reason they should get prison instead

He committed murder, dont care if the charge got knocked down to manslaughter they beat that kid to death, thats murder imo.

he took another persons life, it wasnt self defense or an accident.



Completely agree with this.


The line "the victim tried to crawl away." pretty much sums it up.

Two larger men beat a guy to death after instigating the situation. Fucking disgusting and pathetic.

You don't just get to serve your time and join society with no consequences. The value of a life can't be determined by any legal system, and as far as I'm concerned this man will always be a murderer and a piece of trash.
12/3/12 8:46 AM
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JOB
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Synado - Split feelings about the whole situation. I can understand Bellators decision though.

What exactly is there to be split about? The guy beat someone to death, and as a consequence can not making a living from punching people in the face. Sounds fair.
12/3/12 9:24 AM
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alkysmurf
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reading this thread and you can easily see why the us has the worlds largest prison system, and the permanent in and out cycle with recidivism rates unmatched in the rest of the world.

Maybe if prison was used less to cage animals and more to educate them on how to avoid the issues that got them there we could see more people finding their place as productive members of society. Its obvious they have missed the lessons in right and wrong, or just made poor decisions, some of these guys can be rehabilitated, for the betterment of society.

Some of the posts in this thread could have been written by the Taliban. America is a country where we are supposed to be Innocent until proven guilty by a judge/jury of our peers. The judge and jury decide, based on ALL the evidence presented what a just punishment is. Phone Post
12/3/12 9:52 AM
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Motivated Penn
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alkysmurf -  reading this thread and you can easily see why the us has the worlds largest prison system, and the permanent in and out cycle with recidivism rates unmatched in the rest of the world.

Maybe if prison was used less to cage animals and more to educate them on how to avoid the issues that got them there we could see more people finding their place as productive members of society. Its obvious they have missed the lessons in right and wrong, or just made poor decisions, some of these guys can be rehabilitated, for the betterment of society.

Some of the posts in this thread could have been written by the Taliban. America is a country where we are supposed to be Innocent until proven guilty by a judge/jury of our peers. The judge and jury decide, based on ALL the evidence presented what a just punishment is. Phone Post

I think you may have misunderstood. This is not a pending case. There is no doubt about his guilt.

From the article:

"felony conviction for involuntary manslaughter and the five years he'd spent in prison for it."
12/3/12 9:59 AM
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effinggoof
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I am pleased by the general tone of the thread.

Dan McGuane and his brother are clearly a couple of psychos who beat someone to death.

Dan McGuane seems devoid of meaningful remorse, and he clearly does not understand the damage he did.

As a fight fan, I don't want to watch McGuane, and I don't want to watch an event where he is on the card.

12/3/12 10:03 AM
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BaraoKix
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CindyO - 

NOT knowing and signing the guy is one thing. Knowing what he did and bringing him onboard is disgusting, IMO.

 

Cindy




SF had the neo-nazi kiddy-diddler fight...
12/3/12 10:18 AM
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youarewhatiswrong
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alkysmurf -  reading this thread and you can easily see why the us has the worlds largest prison system, and the permanent in and out cycle with recidivism rates unmatched in the rest of the world.

Maybe if prison was used less to cage animals and more to educate them on how to avoid the issues that got them there we could see more people finding their place as productive members of society. Its obvious they have missed the lessons in right and wrong, or just made poor decisions, some of these guys can be rehabilitated, for the betterment of society.

Some of the posts in this thread could have been written by the Taliban. America is a country where we are supposed to be Innocent until proven guilty by a judge/jury of our peers. The judge and jury decide, based on ALL the evidence presented what a just punishment is. Phone Post

No, we have the most overpopulated criminal system because has decided that its their place to legislate down to minutia, because our legal system is created, legislated and executed by the same lawyers who make their living off of it, because people go to jail for smoking pot, for defending themselves from injustice. Murder is a mortal crime, the most serious crime and deserves the most serious punishment, not a slap on the wrist and assurance that "everything will be ok when you get out in a few years." He should have no such comfort, nobody should be able to say to themself "i can kill this kid, it'll suck for a few years but then i'll get out and get on tv!!!
12/3/12 10:41 AM
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Jill Laz
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Bellator signed him even knowing about the murder to me that is wrong, if you choose to look at the circumstances or not this fighter shows tendencies to violence. MMA fighters have to show restraint at times, my concern would be what if his opponent said something or did something to piss him off would he go to far lose control he showed he couldn't control himself already why take the risk a fight organizations job should be to try to the best of their ability to protect all their fighters Bellator made a bad choice to sign him in the first place..IMO Phone Post
12/3/12 10:44 AM
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Guerrero
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Six15 Comics, Creator
I told this story on another McGuane thread:

Before the Kelly Proctor tragedy happened, the McGuane brothers went to a local MMA gym and were "slamming" people during a grappling class so they got green lit. My buddy grappled with each of them and roughed them up enough that they never went back to that MMA school. Supposedly, Jorge Rivera was there and was going to do the green lighting, but my friend did it instead.
12/3/12 11:02 AM
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alkysmurf
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I was speaking in generalities, not specifically this case. In general we Americans have a punitive view towards criminals rather than a rehabilitation orientated system.

Specifically in this case the guy was charged with involuntarily manslaughter, and served the term that a judge/jury who know ALL the details of the case decided was just.

I have no qualms with stronger sentences or even life/death sentences. But since he has served his sentence its my opinion that he should be treated as a free man.

I really can't wrap my head around the guys on here with the beliefs that its only black or white, the majority of the world operates in the grey.

Seriously many posts sound like Islamic fundamentalists. They can't grasp that its not as simple as if dude walked up and shot the guy, there are obviously many extenuating circumstances in this and every individual specific case. Phone Post
12/3/12 11:14 AM
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BaraoKix
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UGCTT_Molsonmuscle360 - 
Rockcod - Threads like this remind me of why I never leave the house without my sidearm. Some of you people are truly sick individuals if you think that violence is an acceptable response to words.

I'd love to see the rap sheets of many of the posters on this thread. I bet it would be a hoot.

My entire rap sheet consists of 2 minor in possesion of alcohol tickets when I was 16 and a DUI when I was 17




Thanks for clearing that up...
12/3/12 11:25 AM
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charms434
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As a MA resident with family in Ayer I can tell you the Mcguane brothers were straight up bullies. They killed Kelly, no I wasn't there but I know 3 people that were. They should be doing life.
He claim that there were mistakes in his trial? He should thank god that doc screwed up the autopsy because that's what got him off murder one. He should be doing life. He goes on people treat my sisters bad, people even treat my brother who is a vet (god bless him) bad. But it's HIS fault for causing all this.
TRUE SOCIOPATH Phone Post
12/3/12 11:29 AM
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Zed Wayne Zed
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Wu Massacre - skimmed the article grown ass man shouldnt be using facebook is my first reaction , fight sounds shitty but shit happens and maybe the kid did spit first which legally means he was responsible for the fight

Do you know how many girls you can bang off Facebook?

I think you need to worry about yourself.....
12/3/12 11:44 AM
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MyUnclesCreepy
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I hope he never gets the chance work a drive thru at taco bell. What a POS Phone Post
12/3/12 12:06 PM
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elitecmbt
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He shouldn't even be allowed to train MMA. Give him more tools to kill people with. Fucking stupid. Phone Post
12/3/12 12:42 PM
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shaqitup
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SkooterFanForLife - My 2 year old cousin spit on me so I beat him to death. Justified IMO

damn i wish i could vote this up right now.

Spitting is fucking gross, but it does not warrant a hospital visit, and it certainly doesn't warrant death.

2 years is a joke.
12/3/12 2:42 PM
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BigSleep
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alkysmurf - I was speaking in generalities, not specifically this case. In general we Americans have a punitive view towards criminals rather than a rehabilitation orientated system.

Specifically in this case the guy was charged with involuntarily manslaughter, and served the term that a judge/jury who know ALL the details of the case decided was just.

I have no qualms with stronger sentences or even life/death sentences. But since he has served his sentence its my opinion that he should be treated as a free man.

I really can't wrap my head around the guys on here with the beliefs that its only black or white, the majority of the world operates in the grey.

Seriously many posts sound like Islamic fundamentalists. They can't grasp that its not as simple as if dude walked up and shot the guy, there are obviously many extenuating circumstances in this and every individual specific case. Phone Post
Make a general thread about crime and punishment and stay off this one then. What you are saying has nothing to do with the issue at hand. Phone Post
12/3/12 2:48 PM
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MattyECB
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Wu Massacre - maybe in florida i think


the way 35.15-1a is interpreted is basically if you get in someones face and say 'f you pussy' or spit on them you have already committed assault by inciting them with words intended to provoke a physical conflict and therefor the second party is justified in using self defense


Sec. 35.15 Justification; use of physical force in defense of a person.
1. A person may, subject to the provisions of subdivision two, use physical force upon another person when and to the extent he reasonably believes such to be necessary to defend himself or a third person from what he reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of unlawful physical force by such other person, unless:
(a) The latter`s conduct was provoked by the actor himself with intent to cause physical injury to another person; or
(b) The actor was the initial aggressor; except that in such case his use of physical force is nevertheless justifiable if he has withdrawn from the encounter and effectively communicated such withdrawal to such other person but the latter persists in continuing the incident by the use or threatened imminent use of unlawful physical force; or
(c) The physical force involved is the product of a combat
by agreement not specifically authorized by law.
2. A person may not use deadly physical force upon another person under circumstances specified in subdivision one unless:
(a) He reasonably believes that such other person is using or about to use deadly physical force. Even in such case, however, the actor may not use deadly physical force if he knows that he can with complete safety as to himself and others avoid the necessity of so doing by retreating; except that he is under no duty to retreat if he is:
(i) in his dwelling and not the initial aggressor; or
(ii) a police officer or peace officer or a person assisting a police officer or a peace officer at the latter`s direction, acting pursuant to section 35.30; or
(b) He reasonably believes that such other person is committing or attempting to commit a kidnapping, forcible rape, forcible sodomy or robbery; or
(c) He reasonably believes that such other person is committing or attempting to commit a burglary, and the circumstances are such that the use of deadly physical force is authorized by subdivision three of section 35.20.

I don't understand why you're posting all this...

Not a single person questioned the legality of the court ruling, you're really missing the point. I mean there are a lot of laws that are bat shit retarded as far as I'm concerned, "stand your ground," in Florida certainly comes to mind.

At the end of the day, punching someone while they try to crawl away with a friend, then kicking the shit out of him while he's on the ground, until he's left in a bloody heap under a car...

Well I'm not sure how you can be surprised people don't forgive that.




And look, I'm a really shy guy and hate confrontations. Still I know how to fight and I've been forced in a fair amount of street fights, always when I'm trying to defend someone. I would never ever try to beat the fuck out of someone while they're on the ground.

As soon as I've got the chance, I get the hell out of there. Whether the guy is incapacitated, distracted, wtv. As soon as a fight is over, it's over and I want out. I can't comprehend the mind of someone who would beat the living shit out of a guy, much shorter and much smaller than himself, particularly when it's two on one.Even more so when that guy is helpless on the floor!

If you can look over the court details and come to the conclusion that the events weren't a savage beating meant to put the guy within an inch of his life then I guess we agree to disagree. Maybe he didn't want to kill him, but he had no problems savagely beating the man until it was obvious he'd be barely alive, and certainly obvious he'd have serious injuries after
12/3/12 2:52 PM
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MattyECB
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tl;dr

I guess all I'm saying is, this doesn't seem like one of those situations where a guy gets punched, then falls and cracks his head by sheer shit luck.

Also doesn't seem like a situation where those two were in such danger they had to beat the shit out of the man and escape because they were concerned for their life.


They got mad and they purposely ruined a man's shit to the point where he'd obviously either be dead or likely permanently injured.
12/3/12 2:53 PM
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cmfc
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Holy shit..I use to train at the same gym as Dan...I remember this story but never realized it was him..

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