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UnderGround Forums >> How Dan McGuane got banned from MMA


12/3/12 11:25 AM
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charms434
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As a MA resident with family in Ayer I can tell you the Mcguane brothers were straight up bullies. They killed Kelly, no I wasn't there but I know 3 people that were. They should be doing life.
He claim that there were mistakes in his trial? He should thank god that doc screwed up the autopsy because that's what got him off murder one. He should be doing life. He goes on people treat my sisters bad, people even treat my brother who is a vet (god bless him) bad. But it's HIS fault for causing all this.
TRUE SOCIOPATH Phone Post
12/3/12 11:29 AM
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Zed Wayne Zed
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Wu Massacre - skimmed the article grown ass man shouldnt be using facebook is my first reaction , fight sounds shitty but shit happens and maybe the kid did spit first which legally means he was responsible for the fight

Do you know how many girls you can bang off Facebook?

I think you need to worry about yourself.....
12/3/12 11:44 AM
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MyUnclesCreepy
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I hope he never gets the chance work a drive thru at taco bell. What a POS Phone Post
12/3/12 12:06 PM
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elitecmbt
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He shouldn't even be allowed to train MMA. Give him more tools to kill people with. Fucking stupid. Phone Post
12/3/12 12:42 PM
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shaqitup
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SkooterFanForLife - My 2 year old cousin spit on me so I beat him to death. Justified IMO

damn i wish i could vote this up right now.

Spitting is fucking gross, but it does not warrant a hospital visit, and it certainly doesn't warrant death.

2 years is a joke.
12/3/12 12:56 PM
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AssAssassin
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elitecmbt -  He shouldn't even be allowed to train MMA. Give him more tools to kill people with. Fucking stupid. Phone Post

Agreed. It would be like giving Jared Loughner sport shooting / hunting lessons while starting a career in politics.

Or Bernie Madoff learning to teach finance to children.

Or Anders Breveik training to be a competition marksman.

Or Osama Bin Laden learning to be a commercial airline pilot.

Or Ted Kaczynski learning to be a pyrotechnician / Bomb ordinance expert.

Or OJ Simpsons trying to be a hand model for gloves.


Who would even offer to train McGuane? It's borderline negligent to even teach this guy anything. Once again, if he felt any remorse or any genuine shame that terror should prevent him from hitting another human being for the rest of his life. I don't doubt he is speaking to kids about whatever, but to me that seems more like trying to repair his career than doing it out of guilt. Also the part where he complains that people on the internet are trash talking him and it hurts his feeling, BOO FUCKING HOO, you should feel terrible for the rest of your life. I am at least glad with the internet that the terror will follow you forever, as it should, since your victims fate is forever, and the family's and friends of the victims suffering is permanent as well.

His complaints seem to be more about his damaged career than the lives he has permanently damaged.
12/3/12 2:42 PM
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BigSleep
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alkysmurf - I was speaking in generalities, not specifically this case. In general we Americans have a punitive view towards criminals rather than a rehabilitation orientated system.

Specifically in this case the guy was charged with involuntarily manslaughter, and served the term that a judge/jury who know ALL the details of the case decided was just.

I have no qualms with stronger sentences or even life/death sentences. But since he has served his sentence its my opinion that he should be treated as a free man.

I really can't wrap my head around the guys on here with the beliefs that its only black or white, the majority of the world operates in the grey.

Seriously many posts sound like Islamic fundamentalists. They can't grasp that its not as simple as if dude walked up and shot the guy, there are obviously many extenuating circumstances in this and every individual specific case. Phone Post
Make a general thread about crime and punishment and stay off this one then. What you are saying has nothing to do with the issue at hand. Phone Post
12/3/12 2:48 PM
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MattyECB
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Wu Massacre - maybe in florida i think


the way 35.15-1a is interpreted is basically if you get in someones face and say 'f you pussy' or spit on them you have already committed assault by inciting them with words intended to provoke a physical conflict and therefor the second party is justified in using self defense


Sec. 35.15 Justification; use of physical force in defense of a person.
1. A person may, subject to the provisions of subdivision two, use physical force upon another person when and to the extent he reasonably believes such to be necessary to defend himself or a third person from what he reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of unlawful physical force by such other person, unless:
(a) The latter`s conduct was provoked by the actor himself with intent to cause physical injury to another person; or
(b) The actor was the initial aggressor; except that in such case his use of physical force is nevertheless justifiable if he has withdrawn from the encounter and effectively communicated such withdrawal to such other person but the latter persists in continuing the incident by the use or threatened imminent use of unlawful physical force; or
(c) The physical force involved is the product of a combat
by agreement not specifically authorized by law.
2. A person may not use deadly physical force upon another person under circumstances specified in subdivision one unless:
(a) He reasonably believes that such other person is using or about to use deadly physical force. Even in such case, however, the actor may not use deadly physical force if he knows that he can with complete safety as to himself and others avoid the necessity of so doing by retreating; except that he is under no duty to retreat if he is:
(i) in his dwelling and not the initial aggressor; or
(ii) a police officer or peace officer or a person assisting a police officer or a peace officer at the latter`s direction, acting pursuant to section 35.30; or
(b) He reasonably believes that such other person is committing or attempting to commit a kidnapping, forcible rape, forcible sodomy or robbery; or
(c) He reasonably believes that such other person is committing or attempting to commit a burglary, and the circumstances are such that the use of deadly physical force is authorized by subdivision three of section 35.20.

I don't understand why you're posting all this...

Not a single person questioned the legality of the court ruling, you're really missing the point. I mean there are a lot of laws that are bat shit retarded as far as I'm concerned, "stand your ground," in Florida certainly comes to mind.

At the end of the day, punching someone while they try to crawl away with a friend, then kicking the shit out of him while he's on the ground, until he's left in a bloody heap under a car...

Well I'm not sure how you can be surprised people don't forgive that.




And look, I'm a really shy guy and hate confrontations. Still I know how to fight and I've been forced in a fair amount of street fights, always when I'm trying to defend someone. I would never ever try to beat the fuck out of someone while they're on the ground.

As soon as I've got the chance, I get the hell out of there. Whether the guy is incapacitated, distracted, wtv. As soon as a fight is over, it's over and I want out. I can't comprehend the mind of someone who would beat the living shit out of a guy, much shorter and much smaller than himself, particularly when it's two on one.Even more so when that guy is helpless on the floor!

If you can look over the court details and come to the conclusion that the events weren't a savage beating meant to put the guy within an inch of his life then I guess we agree to disagree. Maybe he didn't want to kill him, but he had no problems savagely beating the man until it was obvious he'd be barely alive, and certainly obvious he'd have serious injuries after
12/3/12 2:52 PM
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MattyECB
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tl;dr

I guess all I'm saying is, this doesn't seem like one of those situations where a guy gets punched, then falls and cracks his head by sheer shit luck.

Also doesn't seem like a situation where those two were in such danger they had to beat the shit out of the man and escape because they were concerned for their life.


They got mad and they purposely ruined a man's shit to the point where he'd obviously either be dead or likely permanently injured.
12/3/12 2:53 PM
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cmfc
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Holy shit..I use to train at the same gym as Dan...I remember this story but never realized it was him..
12/3/12 2:57 PM
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Chris27
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BaraoKix - 
CindyO - 

NOT knowing and signing the guy is one thing. Knowing what he did and bringing him onboard is disgusting, IMO.

 

Cindy




SF had the neo-nazi kiddy-diddler fight...

From what I remember that wasnt disclosed to SF when he signed.

they told Bellator about this when they signed and they still signed him and put him on a card.
12/3/12 3:01 PM
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Michael Kn1ght
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Wont be missed.
12/3/12 3:04 PM
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cmfc
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Guerrero - I told this story on another McGuane thread:

Before the Kelly Proctor tragedy happened, the McGuane brothers went to a local MMA gym and were "slamming" people during a grappling class so they got green lit. My buddy grappled with each of them and roughed them up enough that they never went back to that MMA school. Supposedly, Jorge Rivera was there and was going to do the green lighting, but my friend did it instead.

I use to train at that school also..just spoke to a friend who use to train there when they were there..he told me both brothers got chased from there because of their shitty attitudes..
12/3/12 3:06 PM
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UGCTT_Molsonmuscle360
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Thacommish - 
UGCTT_Molsonmuscle360 - 
Kings21 - 
UGCTT_Molsonmuscle360 - 
youarewhatiswrong - 
UGCTT_Molsonmuscle360 - 
Othello - 
UGCTT_Molsonmuscle360 - This guy has served his sentance, paid his dues, and wants to live the same life that's afforded to any other citizen. If he loves mixed martial arts and wants to pursue it as a career who are you or I to be the judge of whether or not he should be, why not let his skills be the reason we judge this man.


Sorry, he gave up his right to a normal life when he and his brother curb stomped some dude to death. He isn't afforded the same rights as a normal citizen because he is a convicted murderer. Being a convicted murderer gives other citizens the right to judge him however they want. If a vocal majority/minority don't want to see him fighting for Bellator, to fucking bad for the convicted murderer.

The vocal minority is the issue with America in general, so that tidbit doesn't really surprise me.  The internet has done wonderful things for you people.  I heard someone put it quite well the other day.  There used to be a time where the town crazy was someone everyone knew and could just ignore because they were by themselves, but now with the internet they can all come together and try to make their backwater vision a reality.


Says the guy who feels bad for A MURDERER.

Town crazies indeed. At least the internet has given you your voice.

It's not even so much that I feel bad for the guy, I'm just blown away that a society can say they've punished someone, and then decide afterwards that the profession they have chosen all of a sudden is something they don't want them to do.  It's the kind of thing that makes a guy like that turn back into a life of crime to make money.  Hard to make ends meet on a McD's salary.


Its not like the guy decided he wanted to be an accountant. He chose the profession which uses the same skills and abilities that he used to beat a kid to death with.

I have no problem with people doing their time and coming out and getting a job but if, lets say, a guy stabs someone to death and serves his 20 years or whatever he gets, I'd have a big problem if he decided he wanted to sell knives for a living.

As far as making ends meet on a McD's salary, maybe he should have thought about that before beating a kid to death. Also he doesnt exactly sound like a people person. I dont think McDonalds would be the place for him anyways. He might kill them if the told him to hurry up with his coffee.

Did you even read Ben's article?  It states right in there that the guy has been speaking to kids about anti-violence initatives and otherwise bettering his life as well as training in MMA (which many people see martial arts as a way of bettering your life in many different ways as well)

I can understand peoples trepidition with him, but to me it does seem like he has shown plenty of remorse, he was more than forward with Bellator when they signed him and is just trying to move on with his life which legally he should be allowed to do.  Creating double standards is always a dangereous thing.


training and talking to kids is all well and good, and yes martial arts is a way to better your life in many different ways.... however prize fighting isnt synonymous with that and that is what people are upset over, not him training or encouraging kids to do so instead of fighting. personally i just dont want to see this guy get into a system where he is rewarded for doing what he was punished for. There are other ways to make a living, might do him some good to explore those options and enjoy it. Its a better option than the kid who died got.

Thanks for being someone to argue your point reasonably instead of just basically going off on a tangent at me like everyone else has.  I guess I just look at things from a legal front, I understand that it could easily be viewed as morally reprhensible that he is fighting, and that makes sense that some people don't want to see him fight in a pro organization.  I just view it more along the idea that if you really hold back people who have spent time in jail and want them to become productive members of society, you are going to be paying the consequences if you stop them from persuing their careers.

 

Going to vote you up for sure though.  I honestly think out of anyone at all in this thread you have the most well reasoned response. 

12/3/12 3:20 PM
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KingGo
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Wu Massacre - google search kelly proctor autopsy. it was a big part of the case. the guy originally said his brain swelled because they beat him but then he admitted he made mistakes and it was because of trauma to the brain stem. he might have simply fallen wrong after a scuffle like their story suggests. none of us were there. and if its true that he did spit at them first, which is hard to believe, they would not be responsible for anything, but that is very unlikely. no matter what happened it is a sad story.

Nice to see someone did their own outside research before giving an opinion. Of the people who don't believe this guy deserves a second chance, im curious to know which of them have ever been in a street fight. Id also like to know what they'd do if they ever saw a loved one in a physical altercation. I have two brothers myself, and I know for a fact that I would kill for either of them if they were ever threatened. Lotta people need to get off their high horses over this Phone Post
12/3/12 3:51 PM
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brune90
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I wish people would have gotten in such a frizzy when Donte' Stallworth returned to the NFL
12/3/12 5:32 PM
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Kings21
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UGCTT_Molsonmuscle360 - 
Kings21 - 
UGCTT_Molsonmuscle360 - 
youarewhatiswrong - 
UGCTT_Molsonmuscle360 - 
Othello - 
UGCTT_Molsonmuscle360 - This guy has served his sentance, paid his dues, and wants to live the same life that's afforded to any other citizen. If he loves mixed martial arts and wants to pursue it as a career who are you or I to be the judge of whether or not he should be, why not let his skills be the reason we judge this man.


Sorry, he gave up his right to a normal life when he and his brother curb stomped some dude to death. He isn't afforded the same rights as a normal citizen because he is a convicted murderer. Being a convicted murderer gives other citizens the right to judge him however they want. If a vocal majority/minority don't want to see him fighting for Bellator, to fucking bad for the convicted murderer.

The vocal minority is the issue with America in general, so that tidbit doesn't really surprise me.  The internet has done wonderful things for you people.  I heard someone put it quite well the other day.  There used to be a time where the town crazy was someone everyone knew and could just ignore because they were by themselves, but now with the internet they can all come together and try to make their backwater vision a reality.


Says the guy who feels bad for A MURDERER.

Town crazies indeed. At least the internet has given you your voice.

It's not even so much that I feel bad for the guy, I'm just blown away that a society can say they've punished someone, and then decide afterwards that the profession they have chosen all of a sudden is something they don't want them to do.  It's the kind of thing that makes a guy like that turn back into a life of crime to make money.  Hard to make ends meet on a McD's salary.


Its not like the guy decided he wanted to be an accountant. He chose the profession which uses the same skills and abilities that he used to beat a kid to death with.

I have no problem with people doing their time and coming out and getting a job but if, lets say, a guy stabs someone to death and serves his 20 years or whatever he gets, I'd have a big problem if he decided he wanted to sell knives for a living.

As far as making ends meet on a McD's salary, maybe he should have thought about that before beating a kid to death. Also he doesnt exactly sound like a people person. I dont think McDonalds would be the place for him anyways. He might kill them if the told him to hurry up with his coffee.

Did you even read Ben's article?  It states right in there that the guy has been speaking to kids about anti-violence initatives and otherwise bettering his life as well as training in MMA (which many people see martial arts as a way of bettering your life in many different ways as well)

I can understand peoples trepidition with him, but to me it does seem like he has shown plenty of remorse, he was more than forward with Bellator when they signed him and is just trying to move on with his life which legally he should be allowed to do.  Creating double standards is always a dangereous thing.


Yes I read Ben's article. Did you read my post? I have no problem with him trying to better his life. I think its great that he speaks to kids about anti-violence. I dont even have that much of a problem with him training MMA or any particular martial art. What I DO have a problem with is him FIGHTING in competition for his chosen profession.

Just because the guy has been up front about his MURDER conviction shouldnt give him a free pass to do for a living what he was essentially charged with doing.

I have no problem with him training all he wants, hitting pads, sparring, etc. Like someone above stated, if he was charged with molesting children, you wouldnt want him hanging around your kids. Its that fucking simple.

If he wants to better his life, then train. Great. I hope it does him wonders. But him competing in a sport where the main objective is to beat someone into submission, among other things, is just wrong. Theres plenty of other shit he can do.

12/3/12 5:38 PM
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CindyO
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BaraoKix - 
CindyO - 

NOT knowing and signing the guy is one thing. Knowing what he did and bringing him onboard is disgusting, IMO.

 

Cindy




SF had the neo-nazi kiddy-diddler fight...

But Scott didn't know. Bjorn did.

 

Cindy

12/3/12 5:43 PM
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CindyO
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AssAssassin - 
elitecmbt -  He shouldn't even be allowed to train MMA. Give him more tools to kill people with. Fucking stupid. Phone Post

Agreed. It would be like giving Jared Loughner sport shooting / hunting lessons while starting a career in politics.

Or Bernie Madoff learning to teach finance to children.

Or Anders Breveik training to be a competition marksman.

Or Osama Bin Laden learning to be a commercial airline pilot.

Or Ted Kaczynski learning to be a pyrotechnician / Bomb ordinance expert.

Or OJ Simpsons trying to be a hand model for gloves.


Who would even offer to train McGuane? It's borderline negligent to even teach this guy anything. Once again, if he felt any remorse or any genuine shame that terror should prevent him from hitting another human being for the rest of his life. I don't doubt he is speaking to kids about whatever, but to me that seems more like trying to repair his career than doing it out of guilt. Also the part where he complains that people on the internet are trash talking him and it hurts his feeling, BOO FUCKING HOO, you should feel terrible for the rest of your life. I am at least glad with the internet that the terror will follow you forever, as it should, since your victims fate is forever, and the family's and friends of the victims suffering is permanent as well.

His complaints seem to be more about his damaged career than the lives he has permanently damaged.

*slow golf clap*

That was beautiful:)

 

Cindy

12/3/12 5:49 PM
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Lord Kancho
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KingGo - 
Wu Massacre - google search kelly proctor autopsy. it was a big part of the case. the guy originally said his brain swelled because they beat him but then he admitted he made mistakes and it was because of trauma to the brain stem. he might have simply fallen wrong after a scuffle like their story suggests. none of us were there. and if its true that he did spit at them first, which is hard to believe, they would not be responsible for anything, but that is very unlikely. no matter what happened it is a sad story.

Nice to see someone did their own outside research before giving an opinion. Of the people who don't believe this guy deserves a second chance, im curious to know which of them have ever been in a street fight. Id also like to know what they'd do if they ever saw a loved one in a physical altercation. I have two brothers myself, and I know for a fact that I would kill for either of them if they were ever threatened. Lotta people need to get off their high horses over this Phone Post

I believe he deserves to have a second chance as a free man. I do not believe he deserves to have a second chance a fighter. Would you give Bradly Manning a second chance as a soldier?

I have been in street fights, but, more importantly, I've walked away from street fights. It's easy to do and, most of the time, it's the right thing to do.

"I have two brothers myself and I know for a fact I would kill for either of them if they were ever threatened." Cool. Would you kill for them if you saw them sucker-punching an untrained kid half their size? Because you don't understand what you've read.

12/3/12 5:53 PM
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falsecrack
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There are still people trying to rationalize this? 2 v 1. Kid crawls under an SUV while being beaten by two guys who outweigh him by a combined 80-90 lbs, where he becomes unresponsive and dies. In front of his girlfriend and 3 of his friends. After the group of thugs started the whole incident.

Second chance? To what? Bully and murder another person after being trained on how to fight properly?

WTF
12/3/12 5:58 PM
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Lord Kancho
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UGCTT_Molsonmuscle360 - 
Othello - 
UGCTT_Molsonmuscle360 - This guy has served his sentance, paid his dues, and wants to live the same life that's afforded to any other citizen. If he loves mixed martial arts and wants to pursue it as a career who are you or I to be the judge of whether or not he should be, why not let his skills be the reason we judge this man.


Sorry, he gave up his right to a normal life when he and his brother curb stomped some dude to death. He isn't afforded the same rights as a normal citizen because he is a convicted murderer. Being a convicted murderer gives other citizens the right to judge him however they want. If a vocal majority/minority don't want to see him fighting for Bellator, to fucking bad for the convicted murderer.

The vocal minority is the issue with America in general, so that tidbit doesn't really surprise me.  The internet has done wonderful things for you people.  I heard someone put it quite well the other day.  There used to be a time where the town crazy was someone everyone knew and could just ignore because they were by themselves, but now with the internet they can all come together and try to make their backwater vision a reality.


Says the guy who feels bad for A MURDERER.

Town crazies indeed. At least the internet has given you your voice.

It's not even so much that I feel bad for the guy, I'm just blown away that a society can say they've punished someone, and then decide afterwards that the profession they have chosen all of a sudden is something they don't want them to do.  It's the kind of thing that makes a guy like that turn back into a life of crime to make money.  Hard to make ends meet on a McD's salary.


Its not like the guy decided he wanted to be an accountant. He chose the profession which uses the same skills and abilities that he used to beat a kid to death with.

I have no problem with people doing their time and coming out and getting a job but if, lets say, a guy stabs someone to death and serves his 20 years or whatever he gets, I'd have a big problem if he decided he wanted to sell knives for a living.

As far as making ends meet on a McD's salary, maybe he should have thought about that before beating a kid to death. Also he doesnt exactly sound like a people person. I dont think McDonalds would be the place for him anyways. He might kill them if the told him to hurry up with his coffee.

Did you even read Ben's article?  It states right in there that the guy has been speaking to kids about anti-violence initatives and otherwise bettering his life as well as training in MMA (which many people see martial arts as a way of bettering your life in many different ways as well)

I can understand peoples trepidition with him, but to me it does seem like he has shown plenty of remorse, he was more than forward with Bellator when they signed him and is just trying to move on with his life which legally he should be allowed to do.  Creating double standards is always a dangereous thing.


training and talking to kids is all well and good, and yes martial arts is a way to better your life in many different ways.... however prize fighting isnt synonymous with that and that is what people are upset over, not him training or encouraging kids to do so instead of fighting. personally i just dont want to see this guy get into a system where he is rewarded for doing what he was punished for. There are other ways to make a living, might do him some good to explore those options and enjoy it. Its a better option than the kid who died got.

Thanks for being someone to argue your point reasonably instead of just basically going off on a tangent at me like everyone else has.  I guess I just look at things from a legal front, I understand that it could easily be viewed as morally reprhensible that he is fighting, and that makes sense that some people don't want to see him fight in a pro organization.  I just view it more along the idea that if you really hold back people who have spent time in jail and want them to become productive members of society, you are going to be paying the consequences if you stop them from persuing their careers.

 

Going to vote you up for sure though.  I honestly think out of anyone at all in this thread you have the most well reasoned response. 


Rehabilition addresses the problem of not presenting opportunities to contribute something to society to the convicts who would actually take advantage of them.

This guy is not someone I think should be first priority to get that opportunity.

So many people on here have tossed out the idea of some hypothetical kid shoving someone only to have them fall down, strike their head and die in a horrible accident. THAT KID should be given a second chance.

Someone who does what this guy did? Other people are more deserving of those opportunities, IMO. Some decisions you don't come back from and they change your life forever. If someone fucks around and does drugs throughout high school... well, that guy doesn't get a national firestorm when he wishes he had a way out of working at McDonalds. That guy is someone I think should have a second chance to follow his dreams even though he made a bad decision. What about the guy that gives up his dreams to look after a sick loved one? Fuck yes, I'll support that guy's right to have a second chance. This guy, after what he did? No. He made a choice and it cost him.
12/3/12 6:01 PM
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Lord Kancho
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Wu Massacre - also i never said i was a lawyer that would be terrible i hope to go into some type of law enforcement


again the story from that website is probably as incorrect as hearing the story from dan himself. and finding unbiased witnesses would probably be extremely difficult.



the point is that when dealing with situations that result in loss of life the main thing considered is what was the 'killers' mindset at the time. what i was trying to point out bringing up the self defense law was maybe this kid did want to look tough and did get into a shouting match with one of the brothers, whereas the second was somewhat justified in jumping in - witness of an attack in progress. its probably not what happened, but the entire situation needs to be considered, not just the outcome.


lets say 2 85 year old guys have a verbal argument and one pushes the other, just because he is annoyed and wants to walk away but 'lost control' of himself or got too angry, and the pushed guy falls over and dies. whats the right charge there? 1st degree murder? no. his intent was not to murder. that would most likely be similar involuntary manslaughter. the point is these kids didnt really mean to beat this guy to death, they just meant to beat him up. i am surprised a murder charge was ever considered.

clint k9 had a good post. it was an accident. yes they made a mistake

should they be allowed to fight...

ehh. maybe not i guess. the sport would be better off without the idea that these guys who were criminals and bullies got into the sport even after so far as an accidental death.


and no i turned my facebook off years ago cus i stopped using it and hasnt been a problem. plus it was alright when i started and they made so many changes to it, it sucks now



"again the story from that website is probably as incorrect as hearing the story from dan himself. and finding unbiased witnesses would probably be extremely difficult."

No, this story is pretty reliable. This isn't a he said / she said situation: the guys own FRIENDS tried to help the victim and co-operated with the police against them. The only people whose stories don't match everyone else at the scene are the losers who committed the crime.

When the guy's own friends have different stories than his own... he's lying, pure and simple.
12/4/12 5:58 AM
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SakuEar
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"I let everybody know even before I go to a gym or start training with somebody new, because I don't want them to be uncomfortable with it."

Yeah... because telling them that you killed a man with your bare fists won't make them uncomfortable.

Seems Legit.
12/4/12 6:17 AM
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MMARAIDER
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