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JKD UnderGround >> Mook Jong for MMA?


12/3/12 11:40 AM
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Dan Pagan
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Any practical applications for MMA Training? Phone Post
12/4/12 1:14 AM
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shen
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Absolutely, it would be really helpful to carry on your shoulders as you ran stadium stairs. --Great anaerobic conditioning.

Also really good for holding towels.

12/4/12 9:19 PM
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Dan Pagan
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Good one Shen, but seriously, I have seen some JKD videos where those guys use the dummy in every way, from boxing to weapons, and even judo-like "fit-ins".

Is it just up to the users imagination or is there actually someone out there with DVD or some tried training methods related to MMA or Vale Tudo. Phone Post
12/5/12 3:35 AM
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Majic Sam
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Absolutely great training equiptment to help gauge range,space,distance and jamming the opponent.Also,fun to punch/flick if the dummy is padded,or you are gloved.Not to mention,a great auditory and feedback device for rhythmic applications,beats,as they are loud and crisp sounding.Way fun to kick full-on at the knee,nuts and diaphram sections,eyejabs and throat shots.Just like working a heavybag,your imagination and improvisational skills are what are most worth focusing on.
12/5/12 11:53 AM
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HEMAN
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Dan Pagan -  Good one Shen, but seriously, I have seen some JKD videos where those guys use the dummy in every way, from boxing to weapons, and even judo-like "fit-ins".

Is it just up to the users imagination or is there actually someone out there with DVD or some tried training methods related to MMA or Vale Tudo. Phone Post

Very limited use for MMA guys. Additionally, a real MOOK is too pricey to have in a gym.
12/5/12 9:49 PM
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Majic Sam
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True,MMA applications on a jong are limited,but,so is a heavy bag.No limbs or human form but hittable(?),and jongs show limbs but not so strikeable(?).Imagination and creativity are probably more important than the equiptment.Don't get too caught up in any boxing vs. kung fu ='s jong vs. dummy outlook.

IMO,it is better to work both than only one.
12/5/12 10:43 PM
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Majic Sam
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Besides,it is your decision to bust up your hand after having punched your assailants skull,like an amateur boxer.Not a great idea.Going to the ground isn't always the best in a street scenario,either.How to deal with being taken there is a whole new scene,valid...

Pre-concieved traps happen seldom during emergency situation/street scenarios,but I have found that many big old looper/brawlers can easily be shut down with some very simple traps and shutdown/jams into headbutts,knees,elbows,clinch-to-takedown range.

The mook is a great training device for these scenes,at least for myself.I used to know the first 60 W.C. dummy form set,max...Could barely show the first 20,these days.Glad I forgot and just went with it after a while.
12/6/12 9:04 AM
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HEMAN
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Majic Sam - True,MMA applications on a jong are limited,but,so is a heavy bag.No limbs or human form but hittable(?),and jongs show limbs but not so strikeable(?).Imagination and creativity are probably more important than the equiptment.Don't get too caught up in any boxing vs. kung fu ='s jong vs. dummy outlook.

IMO,it is better to work both than only one.

Incorrect assumption. The heavy bag or infamous punching bag is not really for targeting. It's to developed power through resistance striking not accuracy or target allocation. Hence most strikers prefer striking a trainer wearing focus mitts.
12/6/12 9:06 AM
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HEMAN
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Majic Sam - Besides,it is your decision to bust up your hand after having punched your assailants skull,like an amateur boxer.Not a great idea.Going to the ground isn't always the best in a street scenario,either.How to deal with being taken there is a whole new scene,valid...

Pre-concieved traps happen seldom during emergency situation/street scenarios,but I have found that many big old looper/brawlers can easily be shut down with some very simple traps and shutdown/jams into headbutts,knees,elbows,clinch-to-takedown range.

The mook is a great training device for these scenes,at least for myself.I used to know the first 60 W.C. dummy form set,max...Could barely show the first 20,these days.Glad I forgot and just went with it after a while.

You seem to be fixed on the MMA vs JKD/WING CHUN debate. This question was "Any practical applications for MMA Training?" Not "Any practical applications for STREET Training?".
12/6/12 10:25 PM
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Majic Sam
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Again,I don't think trad dummy training has much value as far as mma goes.The rant about street applications is to shed some light on what they are BEST used toward.Not caught up in any MMA vs. WC/JKD bullshit.I am probably one of the last to flog that horse.Again,just passing on what I have learned,both good and bad,from training boxing,WC and JKD.Having an improvisational and imaginitive mindset on both the bag and dummy is the message I hope to convey,and to NOT get caught up in categories.Dig?
12/7/12 1:50 PM
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Paul Hopkins
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Tempering Phone Post
12/7/12 2:00 PM
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HEMAN
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Tempering indeed.
12/10/12 10:54 PM
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Majic Sam
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LOL!Yes,just full o meaness,I am.LOL @ ex-JKDC renegades.I am outflanked...

12/11/12 9:39 AM
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Joe Maffei
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Of course as educated people we can't be narrow minded. The mook is a tool/apparatus in lieu of having a person. At times in the class room when working theory an apparatus is great, used traditionally or in some unknown way.

The up side: it's stationary and fixed.
The down side; it's stationary and fixed.

I have not used one in years but they are a lot of fun and most people always jump on it and want to learn how to use it, then they misjudge their distance.....:-)
12/12/12 2:01 AM
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Majic Sam
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Well said,Mr. Maffei

The dummy is great equiptment for guaging body position(s),distance and traps to tie ups.Fun to kick,as well.

Other than that,totally useless...buy a handgun if you want to be safe.





12/12/12 9:40 AM
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Paul Hopkins
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i wonder how much money is spent on handguns as opposed to wooden dummies?

i started building a mook jong 15 years ago. probably should finish it? just needs the arms and leaf springs. the body is fir. but maple arms would be nice

could just buy a gun i suppose. how about a holster? And then there is the caliber decision. What is a caliber? and who makes a good one?

i think maybe i'll just finish the dummy.

i will post pics if anyone is interested



12/13/12 1:10 AM
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Majic Sam
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Post pics,Paul.Leaf springs are always interesting.If you want even shank arms,check out the Great Lion Co.,oak or Cocobolo.

Just finish the dummy and put down the weapons.
12/13/12 6:18 PM
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WidespreadPanic
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Having something to punch for a specific need is key. The makiwara spring board is one for developing a kind of rooted straight punch. I always used a stacked 18L carbouy filled with water in a heavy cardboard carrier.

It allowed something like the resistance of a human body (water filled) but being braced against a wall I could use a rooted straight punch and could also stand to the side and hook it. It would not 'move' like a heavy bag.

But this is not enough. You need to use this power on 'alive' focus gloves and you also need to hit the heavy bag, but the heavy bag needs to be held by a partner or be one of those long tied top and bottom banana bags. You don't 'fight' the heavy bag like many people do, you develop your hook and your jab, keeping the bag 'away' from vertical. The spring makiwara board also develops this 'springy' energy.

The key thing to remember is that modern empty-hand fighting or MMA requires a fairly extensive skill set and you have to 'maximize your training dollar'. Some things that we used to do just fall off the 'table' in terms of utility, I'm afraid.

The other key thing to remember is you are 'training' to fight another human - you are not trying to be Kwai Chang Kane, or BL, or an acrobat if you are a fighter. However, martial arts is a large buffet. There's certainly room for acrobatics, WuShu, TJ, flashy kicking - it's a hobby, remember. If you are not earning a living as a fighter, you do not use your H2H for self-defense. You use your brain, your layered defense, your firearm and the law. If you have to resort to H2H, IMO, you have failed on several fronts, failed to evade, deescalate, resolve with a 'non-firing solution'.

FWIW.

 

12/14/12 11:35 AM
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Paul Hopkins
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Good points ESP. I think strong h2h skills can help prevent violence. Greco in particular is a go to for security work when calmly resolving conflicts that have gone physical. Phone Post
12/14/12 11:09 PM
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Majic Sam
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Totally agree.Greco,freestyle and Relson Gracie BJJ is really thorough.Hope that it never gets down to Bruce's JKD,dirty fighting,etc.That is why it is called self-defense.

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