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UnderGround Forums >> Rick Flair: Harley Race would have been MMA champ


12/4/12 6:18 PM
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Fedor219
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I would love to watch Stone Cold Steve Austin go at it verbally with Dana White. Then dump beer on him in the octagon Phone Post
12/4/12 6:40 PM
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caged conflict
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All of you stupid little keyboard warriors seem to forget that your precious sport of BJJ was started by a guy who was basically a carnie wrestler. Idiots!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsuyo_Maeda

Remember that Neil Adams rolled up the Gracies (including your Man-God Rickson) and Bad news Brown would have ruined them in grappling. Many of these professional wrestlers were amateur wrestling studs and in mma the quality wrestlers tool up the BJJ guys who have no other skill set. Considering the professional wrestlers' appetite for steroids, they would have done just fine in mma.
12/4/12 6:40 PM
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caged conflict
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Come at me bros. G'head and vote me down for spittin mad knowledge.
12/4/12 7:11 PM
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jcblass
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"Remember that Neil Adams rolled up the Gracies (including your Man-God Rickson) "


Please elaborate....
12/4/12 8:00 PM
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Eggmachine
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I don't think pro wrestlers get enough credit.

I read in Chris Jericho's last book how a group of WWE wrestlers manhandled a bunch of kick boxers in the lobby of a hotel. I guess the kickboxer dudes were in town for a tournament when one mouthed off to HHH then punched a referee. All hell proceeded to break loose.
12/4/12 8:02 PM
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ShakaFerreira
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KrisDonahoo -
Willy the Coyote -
uratoker2 - This thread deserves another WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!

     

This. Phone Post
My favorite!

"The Rolex wearin', diamond ring wearin', Kiss stealin', wheelin dealin' son of gun. And I'm having a hard time holding these alligators down!" Phone Post
12/4/12 8:19 PM
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theshooter
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"You know, Chael Sonnen started out training for a pro-wrestling career after getting an invite from WCW. He passed the notoriously grueling Power Plant test (physical conditioning test) at WCW Headquarters and then got an invite in 1998. He asked to defer until he graduated from college and was told that passing the Power Plant test was basically an invitation for life, so that was fine. Chael Sonnen graduated in Spring of 2001, a few months after WCW went out of business and was bought by the WWF."


I've never heard this about Chael Sonnen, but if true, it sure does explain a lot.



"Dan Severn was in the tournament and dominated his match-up, so the told him he would be allowed to continue,"


Actually, due to the unusual rules in the Brawl for it All, which was basically a combination of Tough Man style boxing and take downs (there was no ground fighting allowed after take downs, and there were no submission holds), Dan Severn barely won his Brawl for it All match against the Godfather. Godfather was a pretty big dude at like 6'5" and around 300 lbs., and I think he had been a bouncer at one time and he appeared to have at least a little bit of training. Considering that the rules of the Brawl for it All was not really suited for Dan Severn's fighting style (which obviously is primarily ground fighting based), Dan actually dropped out of the tournament, for fear of a fluke loss ruining his reputation, and career (like it did to Steve Williams). This is the same reason that Ken Shamrock didn't even bother to compete in the Brawl for it All.


If the Brawl for it All had been straight up MMA, then it is pretty clear that Dan Severn and Ken Shamrock would have dominated it. The only other guy that would have stood a chance is Steve Blackman. "Dr. Death" Steve Williams had an outstanding ametuer wrestling background, but by the time the Brawl for it All came around he was past his prime and had gone through several injuries that slowed him down, plus he hadn't competed in ametuer wrestling since he graduated college in the early '80's, and he did not have any formal combat training beyond that.
12/4/12 8:28 PM
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theshooter
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"I would agree that they would have been the Champs back in the 1990s or even early 2000s. Now days the level of both the athlete and training are so superior to those guys of yesteryear that it is almost as if it is a different sport."


I think that this hypothetical assumes that you could transport a young Harley Race, Dick Slater, and Haku/Meng to the present day and have them train at a good MMA school before they make their debut fight.


I think that it is very realistic that some of these pro wrestlers could have done well in MMA. Look at Brock Lesnar, Kazushi Sakuraba, Ken Shamrock, Dan Severn, Don Frye, etc.... All of them did pro wrestling before MMA (Yes, Frye did. I heard about this years ago but I didn't know if it was true. I asked him about it when I met him in person and he confirmed it to me. He apparently worked some indy shows as a pro wrestler before he fought in the UFC.). There have been lots of pro wrestlers to fight in MMA, and quite a few of them have done well, so this shouldn't even be debatable at this point.
12/4/12 8:31 PM
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escudo
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I am personally saddened by the lack of Tom Lawlor in this thread.
12/4/12 8:32 PM
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theshooter
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"Chris Adams, Neil's cousin was the wrestler, but I think we all agree that guy in wrestling with backgrounds in Judo or Wrestling could be sucessful in MMA"


Chris Adams brother Neil fought the Gracies???? I have not heard this one before.


I remember reading that Neil Adams won a silver medal for the United Kingdom in Olympic judo. Chris Adams, the one who became a pro wrestler, was a black belt in judo as well.
12/4/12 8:33 PM
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Ryan Black
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A fantastic read is the book "Pure Dynamite," an autobiography of The Dynamite Kid Tom Billington.

I actually read this book upon a friend's suggestion one summer while on vacation, and that dude was a tough motherfucker. He has also called out Harley Race by name as one of the toughest motherfuckers he's ever met. It seems that drug addiction, injuries, and ego kept him from achieving WWF Champion status as a singles competitor. He left the company, and his cousin & tag team partner, British Bulldog Davey Boy Smith, decided to stay.

Dynamite Kid is a legend in professional wrestling, a superstar in Japan, and a glass-ceiling-breaker for smaller guys in the US. He invented the top rope superplex, and the tombstone piledriver. He lived hid like confoned to a wheelchair due to the dedication and sacrifices he has made to professional wrestling.

This is one guy- after reading his book- that I certainly believe would make it in MMA. He was trained by world renowned catch wrestlers. I don't doubt he could have dominated the Welterweight Division in MMA today if he wrestled in highschool in 2003 and started training in MMA at 18-19. He could have been a GOAT. Ah, how things would be if time were different... Phone Post
12/4/12 8:42 PM
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theshooter
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"He left the company, and his cousin & tag team partner, British Bulldog Davey Boy Smith, decided to stay."


Actually, they both left the promotion to wrestle elsewhere (primarily in Japan), but then Davey Boy Smith came back to the WWF and the Dynamite Kid did not go back.
12/4/12 9:00 PM
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303
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OK Ric we will take your word for it. Imagine that, a pro wrestler thinking that his fixed fights are tougher than guys who are actually trying to fight one another.
12/4/12 9:16 PM
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whoabro
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303 - OK Ric we will take your word for it. Imagine that, a pro wrestler thinking that his fixed fights are tougher than guys who are actually trying to fight one another.
In the next shocking update, some guy's training partner picks him to win his upcoming fight Phone Post
12/4/12 9:28 PM
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Roy Batty
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Driscoll -  Why does every thread involving pro wrestling attract 100 retards who yell "IT'S FAKE!!" like we don't already know?

Fuckin' Tapout fanboys and TUF noobs think they own MMA now. Get over yourselves. Phone Post

1/2 of 'em probably don't know Sakuraba was a pro wrestler before doing MMA, if they even know who Saku was.
12/4/12 9:41 PM
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Pacquiao vs Klitschkos
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Edited: 12/04/12 9:42 PM
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Haku and Lou Thesz are always mention in these threads.
12/4/12 10:34 PM
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Rickson's Aura
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These threads are always hilarious for how pissed the pro wrestling haters get and how serious the pro wrestling marks get. Being a tough guy on the street is different than competing in a MMA fight. Somebody mentioned Dynamite Kid. That guy took more roids than Hogan and Warrior combined. No amount of cycling could get him to pass a drug test.

Flair is funny as hell but delusional. Harley Race was also famous for pulling a gun on someone. Him or dick slater wouldn't stand much of chance against the Steiner brothers. Pro wrestlers are huge, juiced, and sometimes athletic and that makes for a tough fight for anyone including a smaller professional MMA fighter.
12/4/12 10:39 PM
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Rickson's Aura
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Little known fact, in the WWF Harley Race lost the title of 'King' after losing it to Meng who was known as Haku at that time.
12/4/12 10:50 PM
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Philanderer
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ON a related note, haku is on youtube saying that Flair was able to silence an entire bar full of people by displaying his penis.
12/4/12 10:55 PM
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ILoveWatchingJonesBoneShogun
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They have just as much of a chance as being good as a math teacher or cop
12/4/12 11:03 PM
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Gomrad
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Haku works at the Toyota dealer by my house, he is a great guy... A buddy of mine was his sons HS football Coach and said he always took the coaching staff out and picked up beer and wings after games Phone Post
12/4/12 11:07 PM
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UGCTT_stu0411
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JOB - It's always said that Haku was a tough bastard. I don't doubt it. But none of them are beating a trained fighter. Ever.

Tank Abbott beat trained fighters didn't he? Haku had the same chance I guess.

12/4/12 11:14 PM
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Doem
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UGCTT_Reco Groman - 
kevsh - 
Positive Pierre Jean Pablo -  Fake wrestlers were very tough but highly exaggerated in their fighting skills. Sure they were beating up the local tough guys at the bar in the 80s due to sheer size but they would get steamroller by anybody with legit fighting skis in boxing, real wrestling, martial arts, etc. Phone Post

Sure, in most cases. But the fact is some wrestlers *did* have legit skills. Been a long time since I've followed wrasslin' but among others Bad News Brown was an Olympian in Judo, Marc Mero (amateur boxer), Kurt Angle (gold medal in wrestling), etc. - and lots with strong amateur wrestling of course.

Slater/Haku I'm not sure about as they may have just been "tough guys" but for the guys that were strong in one fighting style if they had trained MMA instead of pro wrestling, like Flair said, why wouldn't they have been a potential force?

 

Harley knew 'real wrestling' real well, and coached a ton of state champs, and a couple national champs. His son was a tough sumbitch too. With all of the time Race and Flair spent together, I'm sure Ric knows what he's talking about.

 


there was a term for the wrestlers who had those skills back hen. They were enforcers a lot of the time because they could illegitimately kick anybodies ass who stepped out of line out of the ring, and could win a match against anybody who wasnt willing to give up the belt in the ring.
12/4/12 11:15 PM
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TightTriangle
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Have to mention Stu Hart too. That dude was a tough SOB.

Obviously modern day MMA would be too much for any of these guys, but they would definitely have a chance of winning tournaments until sprawl and brawl became widespread in the early 2000s. Phone Post
12/4/12 11:15 PM
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Doem
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^^^
it was "hooker"

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