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UnderGround Forums >> Rick Flair: Harley Race would have been MMA champ

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12/5/12 4:47 AM
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SinCityHustler
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Bry Bry - i think pro wrestling is silly and i cant imagine anyone older than 12 years old getting any enjoyment out of it..too each his own i guess though..

that said i dont doubt that Haku, Harley Race were very tough guys..any time you have a guy that is in great shape physically, has killer instinct, weighs over 200 pounds and is tough on top of it, you have a dangerous man that is a handful for anyone..these guys were tough when it came to bar brawls, they were big and mean and aggressive and when the fight broke out, they went for the kill..im sure a few of these guys had legit amateur wrestling backgrounds as well..im not sure if they could have become champions though..i see Haku getting destroyed by the better wrestlers and bjjers..im sure Tank would have laid him out if they fought back then..

it would be interesting to imagine Haku in a bar brawl against someone like Joe Rogan, a guy that has alot of training under his belt, but has never fought mma and much smaller than the pro wrestler..would haku win in this type of scenario?

I think so.  A bar/street fight is about inflicting tons of damage in a very short time.  An MMA fight is fought at a 3 or 5 round pace for the most part, often times with tactics designed to further slow down the fight, and limit the actual fight within the fight.  When you have a game fighter who is physically imposing, technique can be secondary to affression in terms of effectiveness.  I've done both, pro MMA and many, many street fights.  In the cage I came right out and fought, but was careful to not gas myself, knowing the opponent was simply trying to weather the storm and look to stall things out.  In the street, however, pacing one's self can be a death sentence.  That allows other factors to come into play, (the longer the fight goes on).  For the most part, I have always gone balls to the wall and ended things quickly, (less than 1 minute) and then GTFO of Dodge.  A big strong game aggessive and tough guy like Meng would be a nightmare for more poeple, (Rogan included) in a real fight situation.  My $.02

12/5/12 5:21 AM
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GayGuardMooseSaucy
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Downwardo -
Willy the Coyote -
uratoker2 - This thread deserves another WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!

     

Ashley Schaffer BMW Phone Post
Hahahahaha I just finished watching all 3 seasons, loved that show. Glad I was able to get the reference, hilarious scene. Phone Post
12/5/12 5:39 AM
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JJitsu
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I love how dipshits always scream wrestlings fake... No shit asshole!!! Its a soap opera for kids you stupid fucks!!!Quit shit talking my childhood!!People who like it know it's fake and people who don't like it do too so who the fuck are you telling this to? You also look like dipshits because you don't know the history of the sport you jock so hard.

Judo Gene Lebell- pro wrestler
Ken Shamrock- pro wrestler before UFC1. Where do you think he learned the leg lock he used? Gracie Torrance?
Dan Severn- NWA World work champion,brought his fake belt to the ring and whooped MMA asses
Pride= pro wrestling organization that went full MMA due to the popularity of their worked Shoots.
Sakuraba= pro fucking wrestler..
Gracie killer

Of course it's fake but guys like Lou Thez or Verne Gagne would have been at least ok the same way Koscheck and Fitch are.
An old school hooker could take the Pepsi challenge with a BJJ guy anytime and do fine. Just ask Josh Barnett,another pro wrestler...or Billy Robinson or a shit ton of other fake wrasslers that can kick your asses. What else did amatuer wrestling ATHLETES without elite striking have to do other then wrestle back then? Look up a guy named Antonio Inoki and tell me where MMA comes from you fucking fucks!!!











I feel better now Phone Post
12/5/12 10:24 AM
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jujitsujamo
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I am also upset at the authors lack of fact checking regarding Ric Flairs name. If someone misspelled John Jones name - fanboys would be up in arms. Phone Post
12/5/12 10:44 AM
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cheesesteak
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a very young Ric Flair

 

12/5/12 10:46 AM
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cheesesteak
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a chubby Ric Flair

 

12/5/12 10:48 AM
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cheesesteak
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Edited: 12/05/12 10:48 AM
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and everyones favorite

 

Pimp Dady Flair!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

12/5/12 12:04 PM
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PatsBarriesGotKongo
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TightTriangle - Have to mention Stu Hart too. That dude was a tough SOB.

Obviously modern day MMA would be too much for any of these guys, but they would definitely have a chance of winning tournaments until sprawl and brawl became widespread in the early 2000s. Phone Post
I remember being in the dungeon with Harry Smith, TJ Wilson (Tyson Kidd), (Theo) Randy Myers, Teddy and others. Stu would now n then make his way downstairs in his late years. Solid dude! This was 2001-ish.
I think Harry would fair well in MMA. Davey Boy used to take him boxing at the Calgary Zoo when he was a young teenager. Phone Post
12/5/12 12:06 PM
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UGCTT_mrzipplokk
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Mixed Martial Arts LLC, Moderator

Don't think Flair didn't get laid all the time. I'm sure he pulled major tail.

12/5/12 1:26 PM
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AnakinHelwani
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I want to see Anderson Silva vs. Meng in a Hell in a Cell match. It's my dream.

12/5/12 1:34 PM
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iamarealamerican
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hacksaw jim duggan woulda been beastin on fools if he was in the ufc, 2x4's all over da place
12/5/12 1:37 PM
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YouCantHandleMyRiddum
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LOLL!!!!!!

12/5/12 2:12 PM
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UGCTT_mrzipplokk
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iamarealamerican - hacksaw jim duggan woulda been beastin on fools if he was in the ufc, 2x4's all over da place

I thought he was in early UFC ? He's not Harold Howard ??

12/5/12 2:59 PM
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Got MMAlk
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GayGuardMooseSaucy -
Downwardo -
Willy the Coyote -
uratoker2 - This thread deserves another WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!

     

Ashley Schaffer BMW Phone Post
Hahahahaha I just finished watching all 3 seasons, loved that show. Glad I was able to get the reference, hilarious scene. Phone Post
This! Phone Post
12/5/12 4:06 PM
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JeffersonDArcyChoke
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JustPeed - lol at "I've had matches that are tougher than any mma fight"

yeah, sure.

not hating on Flair but that line was ridiculous. Phone Post
Did you see Guida vs Maynard?

How about Mir vs Cro Cop?

Hathaway vs Maguire?

Look, you may dislike pro wrestling but Flair took more damage in bumping around a ring in Tokyo than all 6 of the aforementioned fighters did in their real fights.

Flair is right.

Sometimes it hurts more to put on a fake wrestling match than it will to compete in a MMA bout. Phone Post
12/5/12 4:44 PM
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theshooter
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"Pride= pro wrestling organization that went full MMA due to the popularity of their worked Shoots."


You've got the wrong promotion here. PRIDE was always a full MMA promotion, although there were a tiny handful of suspect matches.


The promotion you are thinking of was RINGS. RINGS started out as a worked shoot promotion, and gradually transitioned to being 100% legit shoot MMA, although they did have some legit shoots in their early years as well.
12/5/12 5:05 PM
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Vulva Fabulous
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SinCityHustler - 
Bry Bry - i think pro wrestling is silly and i cant imagine anyone older than 12 years old getting any enjoyment out of it..too each his own i guess though..

that said i dont doubt that Haku, Harley Race were very tough guys..any time you have a guy that is in great shape physically, has killer instinct, weighs over 200 pounds and is tough on top of it, you have a dangerous man that is a handful for anyone..these guys were tough when it came to bar brawls, they were big and mean and aggressive and when the fight broke out, they went for the kill..im sure a few of these guys had legit amateur wrestling backgrounds as well..im not sure if they could have become champions though..i see Haku getting destroyed by the better wrestlers and bjjers..im sure Tank would have laid him out if they fought back then..

it would be interesting to imagine Haku in a bar brawl against someone like Joe Rogan, a guy that has alot of training under his belt, but has never fought mma and much smaller than the pro wrestler..would haku win in this type of scenario?

I think so.  A bar/street fight is about inflicting tons of damage in a very short time.  An MMA fight is fought at a 3 or 5 round pace for the most part, often times with tactics designed to further slow down the fight, and limit the actual fight within the fight.  When you have a game fighter who is physically imposing, technique can be secondary to affression in terms of effectiveness.  I've done both, pro MMA and many, many street fights.  In the cage I came right out and fought, but was careful to not gas myself, knowing the opponent was simply trying to weather the storm and look to stall things out.  In the street, however, pacing one's self can be a death sentence.  That allows other factors to come into play, (the longer the fight goes on).  For the most part, I have always gone balls to the wall and ended things quickly, (less than 1 minute) and then GTFO of Dodge.  A big strong game aggessive and tough guy like Meng would be a nightmare for more poeple, (Rogan included) in a real fight situation.  My $.02


Quite possibly, the best possible reply I've ever read in the hundreds of threads on this particular subject.  It's no surprise that it came from SinCityHustler.  

 

I think that many people think that it's an insult to say that a Pro Wrassler would do well in MMA because it's fake. However, people will be quick to say how well Joe Rogan would do.  Both the Wrassler and Rogan are actors.  Why wouldn't somebody that decided to cross over from WWE and trane UFC and make a career out of it not do well because their former profession was acting in a ring doing scripted matches?  That's no knock at Rogan and I'm not inflating how I think a WWE wrestler would do....but if you can try to forget that this big, muscular 6ft 4in, athletic guy worked for Vince McMahon and focus on the fact that he was an ammy wrestler, NCAA champion that is tough as nails decided to take up MMA....I guarantee people's opinions would change.  It's just the stigma of being a pro wrestler that makes people instantly stand up and be vocal against a WWE wrassler.  That's just my opinion.

 

Anyway, I have to VTFU SinCityHustler, awesome post man!

12/5/12 5:54 PM
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Vulva Fabulous
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Edited: 12/05/12 5:55 PM
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I can't get over those early Ric Flair pics.  HOLY SHIT!!

 

Cheesesteak got a VTFU for today too!  LOL

12/5/12 6:49 PM
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demonsurge
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SinCityHustler - 
Bry Bry - i think pro wrestling is silly and i cant imagine anyone older than 12 years old getting any enjoyment out of it..too each his own i guess though..

that said i dont doubt that Haku, Harley Race were very tough guys..any time you have a guy that is in great shape physically, has killer instinct, weighs over 200 pounds and is tough on top of it, you have a dangerous man that is a handful for anyone..these guys were tough when it came to bar brawls, they were big and mean and aggressive and when the fight broke out, they went for the kill..im sure a few of these guys had legit amateur wrestling backgrounds as well..im not sure if they could have become champions though..i see Haku getting destroyed by the better wrestlers and bjjers..im sure Tank would have laid him out if they fought back then..

it would be interesting to imagine Haku in a bar brawl against someone like Joe Rogan, a guy that has alot of training under his belt, but has never fought mma and much smaller than the pro wrestler..would haku win in this type of scenario?

I think so.  A bar/street fight is about inflicting tons of damage in a very short time.  An MMA fight is fought at a 3 or 5 round pace for the most part, often times with tactics designed to further slow down the fight, and limit the actual fight within the fight.  When you have a game fighter who is physically imposing, technique can be secondary to affression in terms of effectiveness.  I've done both, pro MMA and many, many street fights.  In the cage I came right out and fought, but was careful to not gas myself, knowing the opponent was simply trying to weather the storm and look to stall things out.  In the street, however, pacing one's self can be a death sentence.  That allows other factors to come into play, (the longer the fight goes on).  For the most part, I have always gone balls to the wall and ended things quickly, (less than 1 minute) and then GTFO of Dodge.  A big strong game aggessive and tough guy like Meng would be a nightmare for more poeple, (Rogan included) in a real fight situation.  My $.02


Considering that Haku was known for having bitten the nose off a guy in a street fight, gouged out the eye of another wrestler backstage and causing permanent vision loss, and lifted a guy above the ground by his hair I would agree with you.

Cheapness typically wins in a bar fight, if you take that out of the equation then of course the trained guy has a better chance.
12/5/12 10:20 PM
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hiptosser
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Ming-Haku could have been legit MMA. He was legit in Sumo.
Early UFC's he would have killed dudes.
12/5/12 10:31 PM
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Osbot
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Fake or not, Wrestling is 100% more high impact on the body than MMA ever will be.

Don't forget that these guys are flinging themselves around in highly theatrical maneuvers. They are doing it on the road, what, 2 or 3 times a week?

The typical MMA guy trains in a very scientific manner so as to minimize any chance of injury. They train very hard in the lead up to a fight and then relax immediately. Very few guys stay in peak shape around the clock.

Compare this to say the WWF or WWE or whatever the fuck it calls itself now. Ever wonder why so many of these guys end up with substance abuse problems? It's because they have to be at peak 250 days a year. They just pop a mittful of oxy and go out and perform.

There should be no doubt from anyone who has performed athletically at even a moderate level which of the two sports is more abusive to the body.

In that vein, it is perfectly reasonable for someone to define harder or tougher through more abusive on the body.

At the end of the day however, the guys not destroying their bodies (as much) are really fighting, and the guys crushing theirs are actors in a male soap.
12/5/12 11:27 PM
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kumikata
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Edited: 12/05/12 11:28 PM
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Haku/Meng and Race have the reputation that they do for a reason. But there is no way on earth that either of them would do well in today’s mma heavyweight ranks. There are many pro-wrestlers that were legit tough guys. Scott and Rob Reichsteiner (Steiner Brothers) were very good wrestlers at Univ. of Michigan in the 80’s. One of them placed 2nd at the Big Tens one year, I believe. <br /><br /><br />


Bad News Brown/Allen was an Olympic Bronze medalist in judo in 1976 in Montreal for the U.S. as a heavyweight. One of the best heavyweights we ever had really.<br /><br /><br />


Bob Backland was a great amateur wrestler as was the Iron Sheik. Sheik was a Greco guy. Another name that comes to mind was Bob Roup (sp?).<br />
12/5/12 11:30 PM
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SinCityHustler
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demonsurge - 
SinCityHustler - 
Bry Bry - i think pro wrestling is silly and i cant imagine anyone older than 12 years old getting any enjoyment out of it..too each his own i guess though..

that said i dont doubt that Haku, Harley Race were very tough guys..any time you have a guy that is in great shape physically, has killer instinct, weighs over 200 pounds and is tough on top of it, you have a dangerous man that is a handful for anyone..these guys were tough when it came to bar brawls, they were big and mean and aggressive and when the fight broke out, they went for the kill..im sure a few of these guys had legit amateur wrestling backgrounds as well..im not sure if they could have become champions though..i see Haku getting destroyed by the better wrestlers and bjjers..im sure Tank would have laid him out if they fought back then..

it would be interesting to imagine Haku in a bar brawl against someone like Joe Rogan, a guy that has alot of training under his belt, but has never fought mma and much smaller than the pro wrestler..would haku win in this type of scenario?

I think so.  A bar/street fight is about inflicting tons of damage in a very short time.  An MMA fight is fought at a 3 or 5 round pace for the most part, often times with tactics designed to further slow down the fight, and limit the actual fight within the fight.  When you have a game fighter who is physically imposing, technique can be secondary to affression in terms of effectiveness.  I've done both, pro MMA and many, many street fights.  In the cage I came right out and fought, but was careful to not gas myself, knowing the opponent was simply trying to weather the storm and look to stall things out.  In the street, however, pacing one's self can be a death sentence.  That allows other factors to come into play, (the longer the fight goes on).  For the most part, I have always gone balls to the wall and ended things quickly, (less than 1 minute) and then GTFO of Dodge.  A big strong game aggessive and tough guy like Meng would be a nightmare for more poeple, (Rogan included) in a real fight situation.  My $.02


Considering that Haku was known for having bitten the nose off a guy in a street fight, gouged out the eye of another wrestler backstage and causing permanent vision loss, and lifted a guy above the ground by his hair I would agree with you.

Cheapness typically wins in a bar fight, if you take that out of the equation then of course the trained guy has a better chance.

Well I certainly didn't mean cheapness, I meant brutal aggressiveness.  And I wouldn't consider biting someone's face off as cheap, i think that's about as ruthless and brutal as it gets.  Cheap IMO is sneaking up on the guy and clocking him/her when they don't even know a fight is about to happen, or using a weapon, jumping said opponent, etc.  But being down right ruthless and mid evil is exactly what makes one a tough/nightmare opponent on the street.  Of course being trained and game, (ruthless) is even better.  

12/5/12 11:37 PM
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Golden Boy
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There were 3 fighters from my hometown. None of them had any world class skill sets. They got their start from training in high school mat rooms and garages. All three went on to be contenders in the UFC with one winning the title.

Now my hometown has a handfull of MMA gyms. The best equimpent and trainers brought in from all over the world. With more than double the weight classes and 5x the annual events nowadays its a lot easier to make the big show. Not 1 fighter since has made it to the UFC.

The long winded point I'm trying to make is you can train a guy to fight but you can't train a motherfucker to be bad.
12/5/12 11:41 PM
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kumikata
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Also, "Dr. Death" Steve Williams. Steve wrestled Bruce Baumgartner (2X Olympic Gold Medalist at 286 lbs, USA) to a close decision in college. That's actually quite a feat.

Antonio Inoki needs to be mentioned as well.

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