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UnderGround Forums >> Rick Flair: Harley Race would have been MMA champ


12/5/12 10:20 PM
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hiptosser
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Ming-Haku could have been legit MMA. He was legit in Sumo.
Early UFC's he would have killed dudes.
12/5/12 10:31 PM
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Osbot
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Fake or not, Wrestling is 100% more high impact on the body than MMA ever will be.

Don't forget that these guys are flinging themselves around in highly theatrical maneuvers. They are doing it on the road, what, 2 or 3 times a week?

The typical MMA guy trains in a very scientific manner so as to minimize any chance of injury. They train very hard in the lead up to a fight and then relax immediately. Very few guys stay in peak shape around the clock.

Compare this to say the WWF or WWE or whatever the fuck it calls itself now. Ever wonder why so many of these guys end up with substance abuse problems? It's because they have to be at peak 250 days a year. They just pop a mittful of oxy and go out and perform.

There should be no doubt from anyone who has performed athletically at even a moderate level which of the two sports is more abusive to the body.

In that vein, it is perfectly reasonable for someone to define harder or tougher through more abusive on the body.

At the end of the day however, the guys not destroying their bodies (as much) are really fighting, and the guys crushing theirs are actors in a male soap.
12/5/12 11:27 PM
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kumikata
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Edited: 12/05/12 11:28 PM
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Haku/Meng and Race have the reputation that they do for a reason. But there is no way on earth that either of them would do well in today’s mma heavyweight ranks. There are many pro-wrestlers that were legit tough guys. Scott and Rob Reichsteiner (Steiner Brothers) were very good wrestlers at Univ. of Michigan in the 80’s. One of them placed 2nd at the Big Tens one year, I believe. <br /><br /><br />


Bad News Brown/Allen was an Olympic Bronze medalist in judo in 1976 in Montreal for the U.S. as a heavyweight. One of the best heavyweights we ever had really.<br /><br /><br />


Bob Backland was a great amateur wrestler as was the Iron Sheik. Sheik was a Greco guy. Another name that comes to mind was Bob Roup (sp?).<br />
12/5/12 11:30 PM
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SinCityHustler
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demonsurge - 
SinCityHustler - 
Bry Bry - i think pro wrestling is silly and i cant imagine anyone older than 12 years old getting any enjoyment out of it..too each his own i guess though..

that said i dont doubt that Haku, Harley Race were very tough guys..any time you have a guy that is in great shape physically, has killer instinct, weighs over 200 pounds and is tough on top of it, you have a dangerous man that is a handful for anyone..these guys were tough when it came to bar brawls, they were big and mean and aggressive and when the fight broke out, they went for the kill..im sure a few of these guys had legit amateur wrestling backgrounds as well..im not sure if they could have become champions though..i see Haku getting destroyed by the better wrestlers and bjjers..im sure Tank would have laid him out if they fought back then..

it would be interesting to imagine Haku in a bar brawl against someone like Joe Rogan, a guy that has alot of training under his belt, but has never fought mma and much smaller than the pro wrestler..would haku win in this type of scenario?

I think so.  A bar/street fight is about inflicting tons of damage in a very short time.  An MMA fight is fought at a 3 or 5 round pace for the most part, often times with tactics designed to further slow down the fight, and limit the actual fight within the fight.  When you have a game fighter who is physically imposing, technique can be secondary to affression in terms of effectiveness.  I've done both, pro MMA and many, many street fights.  In the cage I came right out and fought, but was careful to not gas myself, knowing the opponent was simply trying to weather the storm and look to stall things out.  In the street, however, pacing one's self can be a death sentence.  That allows other factors to come into play, (the longer the fight goes on).  For the most part, I have always gone balls to the wall and ended things quickly, (less than 1 minute) and then GTFO of Dodge.  A big strong game aggessive and tough guy like Meng would be a nightmare for more poeple, (Rogan included) in a real fight situation.  My $.02


Considering that Haku was known for having bitten the nose off a guy in a street fight, gouged out the eye of another wrestler backstage and causing permanent vision loss, and lifted a guy above the ground by his hair I would agree with you.

Cheapness typically wins in a bar fight, if you take that out of the equation then of course the trained guy has a better chance.

Well I certainly didn't mean cheapness, I meant brutal aggressiveness.  And I wouldn't consider biting someone's face off as cheap, i think that's about as ruthless and brutal as it gets.  Cheap IMO is sneaking up on the guy and clocking him/her when they don't even know a fight is about to happen, or using a weapon, jumping said opponent, etc.  But being down right ruthless and mid evil is exactly what makes one a tough/nightmare opponent on the street.  Of course being trained and game, (ruthless) is even better.  

12/5/12 11:37 PM
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Golden Boy
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There were 3 fighters from my hometown. None of them had any world class skill sets. They got their start from training in high school mat rooms and garages. All three went on to be contenders in the UFC with one winning the title.

Now my hometown has a handfull of MMA gyms. The best equimpent and trainers brought in from all over the world. With more than double the weight classes and 5x the annual events nowadays its a lot easier to make the big show. Not 1 fighter since has made it to the UFC.

The long winded point I'm trying to make is you can train a guy to fight but you can't train a motherfucker to be bad.
12/5/12 11:41 PM
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kumikata
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Also, "Dr. Death" Steve Williams. Steve wrestled Bruce Baumgartner (2X Olympic Gold Medalist at 286 lbs, USA) to a close decision in college. That's actually quite a feat.

Antonio Inoki needs to be mentioned as well.
12/5/12 11:51 PM
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keiths
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Golden boy there are several guys that just werent given the chance from your hometown. Richard Rojas, David Davis, Billy Jack Hudson, etc..
12/6/12 12:02 AM
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hubris
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12/6/12 12:05 AM
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hiptosser
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kumikata - Also, "Dr. Death" Steve Williams. Steve wrestled Bruce Baumgartner (2X Olympic Gold Medalist at 286 lbs, USA) to a close decision in college. That's actually quite a feat.

Antonio Inoki needs to be mentioned as well.

I think I remember seeing Dr.Death legit fighting in some event back in the early 90's (on vhs)
12/6/12 12:06 AM
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Golden Boy
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keiths - Golden boy there are several guys that just werent given the chance from your hometown. Richard Rojas, David Davis, Billy Jack Hudson, etc..

Davis actually opened a gym and had people paying him to train him.
12/6/12 12:15 AM
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MinnowInaMankiniGotAced
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Meng/Haku has a rep for being bat-shit crazy, biting off peoples faces in fights and jamming fingers in eyesockets.

Harley Race has a rep for pulling a gun on people...

Don't see how either would have been successful in modern MMA.

The rasslers who would be successful in MMA are the ones with legitimate wrestling backgrounds, like Lesnar.

12/6/12 12:54 AM
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tres_equis_666
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Willy the Coyote -

   

Damn I miss the Nitro and the Monday Night wars.

And how Schiavone/Tenay or JR/Lawler reacted when nWo/DX did something fucked up. Phone Post

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